Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"
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Romans 11. I wonder how many here have read that entire chapter? I thought I had until Guojing referenced it and then I looked again and read the entire chapter.
Romans 11:32 For God has consigned all people to disobedience so that he may show mercy to them all.
What?
That answers my earlier question in another thread. Why didn't God show mercy and forgive Adam and Eve their first mistake? He did not do that because God intended to consign all people to disobedience so that he may show mercy to them all.
Sound familiar? Exodus 7:3 But I will harden[f] Pharaoh’s heart, and although I will multiply[g] my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt, 4 Pharaoh will not listen to you.[h] I will reach into[i] Egypt and bring out my regiments,[j] my people the Israelites, from the land of Egypt with great acts of judgment. 5 Then[k] the Egyptians will know that I am the Lord when I extend my hand[l] over Egypt and bring the Israelites out from among them.”
Why didn't God soften Pharaoh's heart that he then renounce the pantheon of false deities he and all of Egypt worshiped? Imagine the lives of innocent Egyptians that would have been saved from the ensuing plagues. Newborns would not have been slaughtered by God's angel of death. Countless people would not have starved due to the locusts, the red Nile river from whence they got their food.
God has consigned all people to disobedience so that he may show mercy to them all.
Let that message sink in. It hit me like a ton of bricks.
I was so wrong.
I'm not in a relationship. I'm in a megalomaniacs malignant narcissistic cult! A God who consigned all people to be disobedient and suffer the consequences God assigned, damnation, was in the beginning. Which is why the tree that would guarantee our fall was planted in the middle of the garden of Eden. Because Omniscience knew Eve and Adam would eat of it because God let Satan, whom he conferred with after casting him out of Heaven and even let into Heaven from time to time, all in scripture I don't care to search out for you, to enter Eden and tempt a woman who did not know what good and evil was.
Therefore she wasn't able to actually knowingly choose, free will, to disobey God's order not to eat. She was innocently led, persuaded, by the wisest of God's angels to eat of the fruit God intended to consigned all people to disobedience so that he may show mercy to them all later on when he arrives on earth as Jesus to begin to show them that mercy.
So much for God being Omni-Benevolent, huh?
REALLY?
I'm in the wrong faith.
This is devastating!
Goodbye.
Romans 11:32 For God has consigned all people to disobedience so that he may show mercy to them all.
What?
That answers my earlier question in another thread. Why didn't God show mercy and forgive Adam and Eve their first mistake? He did not do that because God intended to consign all people to disobedience so that he may show mercy to them all.
Sound familiar? Exodus 7:3 But I will harden[f] Pharaoh’s heart, and although I will multiply[g] my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt, 4 Pharaoh will not listen to you.[h] I will reach into[i] Egypt and bring out my regiments,[j] my people the Israelites, from the land of Egypt with great acts of judgment. 5 Then[k] the Egyptians will know that I am the Lord when I extend my hand[l] over Egypt and bring the Israelites out from among them.”
Why didn't God soften Pharaoh's heart that he then renounce the pantheon of false deities he and all of Egypt worshiped? Imagine the lives of innocent Egyptians that would have been saved from the ensuing plagues. Newborns would not have been slaughtered by God's angel of death. Countless people would not have starved due to the locusts, the red Nile river from whence they got their food.
God has consigned all people to disobedience so that he may show mercy to them all.
Let that message sink in. It hit me like a ton of bricks.
I was so wrong.
I'm not in a relationship. I'm in a megalomaniacs malignant narcissistic cult! A God who consigned all people to be disobedient and suffer the consequences God assigned, damnation, was in the beginning. Which is why the tree that would guarantee our fall was planted in the middle of the garden of Eden. Because Omniscience knew Eve and Adam would eat of it because God let Satan, whom he conferred with after casting him out of Heaven and even let into Heaven from time to time, all in scripture I don't care to search out for you, to enter Eden and tempt a woman who did not know what good and evil was.
Therefore she wasn't able to actually knowingly choose, free will, to disobey God's order not to eat. She was innocently led, persuaded, by the wisest of God's angels to eat of the fruit God intended to consigned all people to disobedience so that he may show mercy to them all later on when he arrives on earth as Jesus to begin to show them that mercy.
So much for God being Omni-Benevolent, huh?
REALLY?
I'm in the wrong faith.
This is devastating!
Goodbye.
I just got to this part. Now I am a little worried. This part. God has consigned all people to disobedience so that he may show mercy to them all.
I found the book at a bible site and read that chapter.
How does that make sense?
God made us disobedient. That's the same as sin? Sinners?
That he may show mercy on sinners? Is that what is being said there?
That's really doubling my confusion now. Those other two verses you're talking about and that verse 32 are beautiful? We in times past have not believed God but we obtained mercy through Israels unbelief? But isn't that verse 32 telling us the unbelief was something God consigned all people to? Isn't disobedience unbelief?
Now we've obtained mercy because God made all people not believe?
I really don't get this.
Other people are saved because Israel doesn't believe in Jesus? I thought Jesus came to save the whole world and those who believe in him. I didn't know there was a group that were saved because others didn't believe. We take their place ?
Did Jesus say this too? Maybe the Romans chapter is an opinion.Is this found elsewhere in the bible?
Help?
How can you be holy and blameless without being converted FIRST?
Nor who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
To recieve all that was chosen in him ,you have to be in him which only happens here
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Then we recieve all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
We realise what was Chosen for all those who would get in Him Would be blessed with . When we read what Paul says in Eph 1 Including being predestined to be glorified. Simple
In light of eph 2.11 -12 this makes perfect sense and is reassuring for those that were not God's elect ( Israel ) . They can know that God purposed for anyone that would get in him would be blessed ect . Paul reveals these mysteries.
In light of eph 2.11 -12 this makes perfect sense and is reassuring for those that were not God's elect ( Israel ) . They can know that God purposed for anyone that would get in him would be blessed ect . Paul reveals these mysteries.
We’ve already gone over the fact that the phrase “ in Him” in Ephesians 1:4 is not talking about our position before the foundation of the world. That was settled, what? Two or three weeks ago?
Let me say this again and hope you comprehend this time.
1. Since Ephesians 1:4 is talking about something that happened before time, it is clear that the phrase “ in Christ” is not talking about our position at that point.
2. Because we didn’t exist yet nor were we saved
3. But Paul uses the phrase “ in Christ” in other ways. For example, Ephesians 3:11
4. Therefore, to say that Ephesians 1:4 never happened because we were not in Christ before the foundation of the world is a fallacious argument.
Let me say this again and hope you comprehend this time.
1. Since Ephesians 1:4 is talking about something that happened before time, it is clear that the phrase “ in Christ” is not talking about our position at that point.
2. Because we didn’t exist yet nor were we saved
3. But Paul uses the phrase “ in Christ” in other ways. For example, Ephesians 3:11
4. Therefore, to say that Ephesians 1:4 never happened because we were not in Christ before the foundation of the world is a fallacious argument.