Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#1,941
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#1,941
OIC1965 said:
So then you’re an open theist by confession, because God does not know what He’s going to do with us until after we believe. Ok. You can believe that. I don’t.
Click to expand...
I'm simply arguing against the calvinistic philosophy your engaging in by reason of scripture.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#1,943
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#1,943
OIC1965 said:
The Bible teaches that God has perfect foreknowledge and also that we have a degree of freedom by His Grace. These concepts do not exclude each other. We just can’t connect them, because we are not God.
Click to expand...
Which verses ? You claim things without verses .
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#1,946
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#1,946
OIC1965 said:
So believing that God has perfect foreknowledge of everything is Calvinistic? Really?
Click to expand...
God sovereignly decreed that man should be free to exercise moral choice, and man from the beginning has fulfilled that decree by making his choice between good and evil. When he chooses to do evil, he does not thereby countervail the sovereign will of God but fulfills it, inasmuch as the eternal decree decided not which choice the man should make but that he should be free to make it. If in His absolute freedom God has willed to give man limited freedom, who is there to stay His hand or say, 'What doest thou?' Man’s will is free because God is sovereign. A God less than sovereign could not bestow moral freedom upon His creatures. He would be afraid to do so.​
A.W. Tozer
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#1,948
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#1,948
throughfaith said:
God sovereignly decreed that man should be free to exercise moral choice, and man from the beginning has fulfilled that decree by making his choice between good and evil. When he chooses to do evil, he does not thereby countervail the sovereign will of God but fulfills it, inasmuch as the eternal decree decided not which choice the man should make but that he should be free to make it. If in His absolute freedom God has willed to give man limited freedom, who is there to stay His hand or say, 'What doest thou?' Man’s will is free because God is sovereign. A God less than sovereign could not bestow moral freedom upon His creatures. He would be afraid to do so.​
A.W. Tozer
Click to expand...
We’re not talking about man. We’re talking about God.

What? So you believe human free will limits God’s foreknowledge?!!! Is that your argument?!!
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#1,949
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#1,949
throughfaith said:
God sovereignly decreed that man should be free to exercise moral choice, and man from the beginning has fulfilled that decree by making his choice between good and evil. When he chooses to do evil, he does not thereby countervail the sovereign will of God but fulfills it, inasmuch as the eternal decree decided not which choice the man should make but that he should be free to make it. If in His absolute freedom God has willed to give man limited freedom, who is there to stay His hand or say, 'What doest thou?' Man’s will is free because God is sovereign. A God less than sovereign could not bestow moral freedom upon His creatures. He would be afraid to do so.​
A.W. Tozer
Click to expand...
What does this have to do with foreknowledge?
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#1,950
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#1,950
OIC1965 said:
So believing that God has perfect foreknowledge of everything is Calvinistic? Really?
Click to expand...
I. m not arguing that God necessarily does or does not know all things , my point would be what does his knowledge do ?why are you raving about HIS knowledge? Did his knowledge cause you to believe 🤔?
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#1,951
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#1,951
OIC1965 said:
We’re not talking about man. We’re talking about God.

What? So you believe human free will limits God’s foreknowledge?!!! Is that your argument?!!
Click to expand...
Your not reading that quote properly.
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#1,954
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#1,954
throughfaith said:
What does anything your saying have to do with God's knowledge. His knowledge is it causative?
Click to expand...
If God knows He’s going to call you to something, does that mean he’s already chosen what He knows?
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#1,959
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#1,959
throughfaith said:
You don't realise your doing philosophy and not bible .
Click to expand...
Isaiah 44:7 God challenges the false gods to foretell things to come the same way HE CAN.

You have so many things where you seem to say that God cannot act or choose or predestinate or know except in response to our actions. So either God foreknows perfectly all of our actions or else He cannot know what His actions will be, seeing His knowledge is contingent upon us doing something first in so many things.

It’s really a messy system you have
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#1,960
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#1,960
OIC1965 said:
Isaiah 44:7 God challenges the false gods to foretell things to come the same way HE CAN.

You have so many things where you seem to say that God cannot act or choose or predestinate or know except in response to our actions. So either God foreknows perfectly all of our actions or else He cannot know what His actions will be, seeing His knowledge is contingent upon us doing something first in so many things.

It’s really a messy system you have
Click to expand...
God predestines those he knows as sons . Is God Confused when He says " I never knew you " ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.