Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

[throughfaith]

Can you be glorified without being converted? No. So if God predestined you to glorification, it follows of necessity that He has foreknowledge of your conversion.

Otherwise, He is predestinating people that He doesn’t know for sure if they’ll be saved or not.

And if you say He predestines after conversion, and therefore His foreknowledge is also after conversion, then you believe that God is imperfect in knowledge, and is learning as He goes.

Either way, it doesnt work. Sounds more like Zeus than YHWH.

The confusion is your Calvinism. You believe God saw you in his mind choosing God before your parents even existed, before Adam sinned ect and predestinated you in his mind to cause you to believe after you were born ,after you sinned ,sent you partial regeneration of some sort ,enabling you to make a choice which you said yes and the rest is history. This is not biblical. Its nonsense that came from Augustine.

 

[OIC1965]

We are not known as sons until we are a son . Gal 4 9But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

You’re talking about knowing (γινωσκω) I am talking about foreknowledge ( προγινωσκω).

Not at all the same thing.

 

[throughfaith]

I’m not talking about man and what man can do. I’m talking about what God can do. You are still focusing on man. I am focusing on God.

You keep talking about man’s choice, while I am talking about the power and glory of God.

I’m not saying that God’s knowledge limits our freedom.

But neither is God’s knowledge limited by our freedom.

Why are you obsessed with the assumption of what you know God must know ? It doesn't do anything for man . Its his perspective. It doesn't help us unless you believe knowing is causative?

 

[OIC1965]

The confusion is your Calvinism. You believe God saw you in his mind choosing God before your parents even existed, before Adam sinned ect and predestinated you in his mind to cause you to believe after you were born ,after you sinned ,sent you partial regeneration of some sort ,enabling you to make a choice which you said yes and the rest is history. This is not biblical. Its nonsense that came from Augustine.

Believing that God has perfect foreknowledge and knowledge is not Calvinistic.

 

[OIC1965]

Why are you obsessed with the assumption of what you know God must know ? It doesn't do anything for man . Its his perspective. It doesn't help us unless you believe knowing is causative?

If you think that, you don’t understa

This ' possessing knowledge of them ' doesn't do anything for those that believe and those that don't.

Are you sure about that?

 

[throughfaith]

Believing that God has perfect foreknowledge and knowledge is not Calvinistic.

Presuming you know even 25% of Gods ways , thoughts, attributes is hubris in the extreme.

 

[OIC1965]

Why are you obsessed with the assumption of what you know God must know ? It doesn't do anything for man . Its his perspective. It doesn't help us unless you believe knowing is causative?

Who told you the Gospel was about us?

 

[throughfaith]

If you think that, you don’t understa


Are you sure about that?

Then explain how it does ?

 

[OIC1965]

Presuming you know even 25% of Gods ways , thoughts, attributes is hubris in the extreme.

Presuming that God doesn’t have perfect foreknowledge is baffling.

 

[throughfaith]

Who told you the Gospel was about us?

Its good news FOR us .

 

[Guojing]

Actually, there’s a ton of salvation doctrine in John’s letters, gospels, and apocalypse.

I write to you little children because your sins are forgiven, we know that we have passed from death unto life, who is He that overcometh, the one who believes Jesus is the Christ, we know that we have been born of God, He has given us an understanding, you have received an unction from the Holy One, by this we know that we are in Him, by the Spirit which He has given us, etc.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Yes, we can learn a lot from 1 John about the Tribulation period, where salvation is indeed not just believing, but you also need to obey the commandments.

So if you don't subscribe to the pre-trib rapture of the Body of Christ, his instructions contained in 1 John, regarding how to be righteous will be very relevant information.

 

[throughfaith]

Presuming that God doesn’t have perfect foreknowledge is baffling.

You start with a philosophy and then you bring that to the text .

 

[OIC1965]

Then explain how it does ?

It’s the difference between a God who is forced to react all the time based on the cards that fate has dealt Him, and a God that knows all things and therefore is perfect in knowledge and wisdom and works all things after the council of His own will.

 

[OIC1965]

You start with a philosophy and then you bring that to the text .

How does God give prophecy if He doesn’t have a perfect foreknowledge of the future?

 

[throughfaith]

It’s the difference between a God who is forced to react all the time based on the cards that fate has dealt Him, and a God that knows all things and therefore is perfect in knowledge and wisdom.

So its just about your thoughts on God's perspective ? Thats ok . So you agree from our perspective it doesn't do anything?

 

[OIC1965]

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Yes, we can learn a lot from 1 John about the Tribulation period, where salvation is indeed not just believing, but you also need to obey the commandments.

So if you don't subscribe to the pre-trib rapture of the Body of Christ, his instructions contained in 1 John, regarding how to be righteous will be very relevant information.

the epistles of John are not just for the tribulation period. They are relevant in every era of Christianity.

 

[throughfaith]

How does God give prophecy if He doesn’t have a perfect foreknowledge of the future?

Again what does that do for us ? We could establish this is God's sign and know this is not the devil for example. it confirms his reality and position. A test of prophet is this standard for example .

 

[OIC1965]

So its just about your thoughts on God's perspective ? Thats ok . So you agree from our perspective it doesn't do anything?

God’s knowledge is of no benefit to us? That’s a strangethought. My phone is about to die, but I’ll respond later

 

[throughfaith]

the epistles of John are not just for the tribulation period. They are relevant in every era of Christianity.

Depends on your view of the rapture and the tribulation. Would you agree that scripture is needed for all periods ?

 

[OIC1965]

Again what does that do for us ? We could establish this is God's sign and know this is not the devil for example. it confirms his reality and position. A test of prophet is this standard for example .

It’s not all about us, is it?