Losing Salvation

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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No, you misunderstand.
Salvation by faith in Christ alone wasn't good enough in their own eyes.

They wouldn't accept the righteousness which is by faith in Christ, and would rather find a way to have their OWN righteousness count somehow.

If a person doesn't want Jesus as Savior, there is no more, in a sense for them, sacrifice for sin, for the only sacrifice for sin that God accepts now, is that of His only begotten Son who shed His blood and died on the cross for us.

If you reject this gift, there remains no more sacrifice for sin, because God will not accept any other way to Him.

I hope you are not trusting in anything you attempt to do...not water-baptism, not your own obedience, not your own confession or repentence or best behavior.

I hope you see that it's not by works of righteousness which WE have done, but it's by faith in Him and His sacrifice for you by faith, or nothing.

Please don't let this discourage you, though.
Some ppl think this is a one-time decision, and that God is shutting the person out, but that's not necessarily the case.

Of course, it's not good to harden our heart, and the bible even talks about God hardening ppl's hearts that are just determined they want no parts of His grace, mercy, and love.

But God tells us to forgive 70×7...unlimited, and certainly He is willing to do the same for anyone that turns from their own self-righteousness or trying to find a way other than by Jesus, and turns to Him by faith alone.

He's a loving and forgiving God and Father, the Good Shepherd, our Savior, and anyone who comes to Him by faith He will not cast out.

* * *

Because they refuse to receive His Gift by FAITH,
and want to climb in some other way.

While we were still in our sins, Christ died for us.
He didn't demand our obedience or good-works,
as if the human race could or would clean itself up first.

No. While the whole human race was right smack in the middle of all our sins, He stepped into our world, went to the cross, and died for us.

What amazing love, how can it be?
That Thou, my God, would die for me?!!!
That is the best explanation I have ever heard for the "remains no
more sacrifice for sin." Thank you so much for explaining it so well :)
 
Apr 8, 2016
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and you wonder that you have no credibility here? You accuse one man of lying and another of ignorant questions....

(BTW that IS talking about someone)
Amen, thank you.
Careful, though, I've said that repeatedly and have been trashed by this and another one, and ppl cried that I was a meanie, reported and threatened me.

Oh, yeah, and one then disparaged my Dad to boot.
We're from a coal-mining family and my pop
was 42 years full time military,
and some internet dweeb is gonna say ANYTHING?!
Yah, ok.

Anyway, point is, once you start pointing out how these ppl lie and make false accusations,
watch how you get treated, just for speaking the truth.
God bless you, sister.

Because I have done it along with others and my life was a pure hell, filled with alcohol and sexual immorality and drugs. I was in the literal pig slop and I came to myself and said "i would rather have Jesus than this crap". So I called on Him and slowly He set me free. The others are still to this day bound and addicted and have been turned over to a debased mind. I pray for them,but they don't even want to talk about it.
You started you're answer with 'Because',but I'm sorry,
I wasn't catching the flow of the question/answer.
What do you mean, because? Because in response to what?

My post was one of those 'rhetorical sarcasms', That's why I highlighted the earlier line in red about the 'genuinely saved' and 'conditional security'.

Of COURSE, the genuinely saved CAN'T lose their salvation!
That's why it's called SAVED.
That's why Jesus SAVED us.
So that we would be SAVED! \:D/

Who are you to say I have no credibility? You only speak for the lawless-grace clan. I'm honored to be despised by them.
My sister does not speak for any 'lawless-grace' clan.
She's a born-again, blood-bought child of God.
Watch it, bucko!
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I asked the questions because I really want to know.
I will confess I am ignorant of what these people believe.
I just want to know when it happens, i.e. what sin leads to that loss. When do you know? Have you ever been there and how did you become saved again. Do you have to be baptised again.
Some may think these questions are ignorant, but I want to know.
I will answer any question I am asked no matter how foolish I may think it is.
Why will you not do the same?
I agree....I too would like to know their answers.

To me the only sin that will keep you from being with the Lord is the sin of rejecting Christ's sacrifice and not receiving His grace through faith. I received Christ when I was around 13 years of age kneeling by my bed. That's when I was born again. I had the witness of the Holy Spirit within me. A few years later I was water baptized. I am forever united with Christ. I am a new creation in Christ. My inner man was created in righteousness and holiness when I believed. Now I'm getting my mind renewed to what Christ as done for me so that I can work out the salvation that is already inside of me.

To me, it is impossible for a person to lose salvation because it is based on what Christ did and not on me. He would have to lose His righteousness because I am one with Him - in order for me to lose what He has given to me.

If I live by my flesh instead of the spirit within me - I will have a terrible life here on this earth but that does not affect the inner man who is created in Christ.

Maybe someone will answer you that believes in their "creating" and "maintaining" their own salvation. I think your questions are legitimate and will reveal what is being taught by others.
 
Apr 8, 2016
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That is the best explanation I have ever heard for the "remains no
more sacrifice for sin." Thank you so much for explaining it so well :)
God bless you! Another beautiful sister, and a really nice compliment, and much-needed encouragement. Thank you sooo very much! ♡ To God be the glory! \:D/
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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So... my answer was chopped liver?

I think a person cannot lose it through sin...but, they can willingly give up their salvation, walk away from God.

So, if a person does that, and lives the rest of his life denying God, and refusing his grace, then dies in that condition, you think that God will go ahead and take him to glory against his will?
 
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psalm6819

Guest
So... my answer was chopped liver?

I think a person cannot lose it through sin...but, they can willingly give up their salvation, walk away from God.

So, if a person does that, and lives the rest of his life denying God, and refusing his grace, then dies in that condition, you think that God will go ahead and take him to glory against his will?
I walked away from God for YEARS and it wasn;t people threatening me with hell or telling me every sin I committed drove another nail into Christ's hands. I was so sin conscious that I felt like a disappoinment to God and a disgrace to Christianity and unable to even speak about Jesus because I wasn't worthy.

It was His love that melted my heart and even more so realizing how underserving I was, His love which never fails.

My message now-don't look at me or others, look at Jesus, for without Him we are nothing.
 
P

psalm6819

Guest
We were made sinners by Adam but we are made righteous thru Jesus not by how fruitful someone else thinks we are.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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So... my answer was chopped liver?

I think a person cannot lose it through sin...but, they can willingly give up their salvation, walk away from God.

So, if a person does that, and lives the rest of his life denying God, and refusing his grace, then dies in that condition, you think that God will go ahead and take him to glory against his will?
The Christian's will is to go to heaven. I have never heard of a person born of the Holy Spirit no matter what condition they were in, say they didn't want to go to heaven. I can see people's minds so messed up that they don't know what they are saying. Remember man look on the outside but God look on the heart.

All Christians have a new spirit created in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness. How do they get un-joined from the Lord? How do they un-born themselves by will power? Can we un-born ourselves by an act of our will now and NOT
become a human? -we can't stop being human and neither can we stop being born of God in our inner man that is in Christ.

How does a person "deny God"? What constitutes denying God in your mind? So, if a person is overcome with a certain sin and doesn't know how to get victory over it for whatever reason..in your scenario - this person goes to hell even though he is born-again?

A lot has to do with what some people call sin too in order to talk about this type of scenario.

We all know that gluttony is a sin. So, this person goes to church all their lives and is "good" according to our modern day Christian beliefs of what being "good" is.

BUT this person over eats all their life and is guilty of gluttony which is sinning. In your idea of religion - this person would go to hell for their sin. This person is "denying" God with their constant sinning.

There are dozens of examples like this.

Salvation is based on what Christ has done not by what we do. That's why they call it the gospel of the grace of Christ.
 
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hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
7,115
1,744
113
no, the person that continues in gluttony is probably just temporarily "lost" , or away from Christ... I think we've ALL been there at some time in our life... I was for several years...but I came back.

I'm talking about someone that just tells God basically to go to h....

They are in the same condition as one that refuses Jesus.... they refuse to be saved. That's what I mean by giving it up.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,584
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I walked away from God for YEARS and it wasn;t people threatening me with hell or telling me every sin I committed drove another nail into Christ's hands. I was so sin conscious that I felt like a disappoinment to God and a disgrace to Christianity and unable to even speak about Jesus because I wasn't worthy.

It was His love that melted my heart and even more so realizing how underserving I was, His love which never fails.

My message now-don't look at me or others, look at Jesus, for without Him we are nothing.
Awesome post sister! I bet you find it easier to love now then even before you walked away. I know I do.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
767
113
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Australia
I walked away from God for YEARS and it wasn;t people threatening me with hell or telling me every sin I committed drove another nail into Christ's hands. I was so sin conscious that I felt like a disappoinment to God and a disgrace to Christianity and unable to even speak about Jesus because I wasn't worthy.

It was His love that melted my heart and even more so realizing how underserving I was, His love which never fails.

My message now-don't look at me or others, look at Jesus, for without Him we are nothing.
Yes, it certainly is Gods kindness that leads us to repentance.
 
R

RobbyEarl

Guest
The Christian's will is to go to heaven. I have never heard of a person born of the Holy Spirit no matter what condition they were in, say they didn't want to go to heaven. I can see people's minds so messed up that they don't know what they are saying. Remember man look on the outside but God look on the heart.

All Christians have a new spirit created in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness. How do they get un-joined from the Lord? How do they un-born themselves by will power? Can we un-born ourselves by an act of our will now and NOT
become a human? -we can't stop being human and neither can we stop being born of God in our inner man that is in Christ.

How does a person "deny God"? What constitutes denying God in your mind? So, if a person is overcome with a certain sin and doesn't know how to get victory over it for whatever reason..in your scenario - this person goes to hell even though he is born-again?

A lot has to do with what some people call sin too in order to talk about this type of scenario.

We all know that gluttony is a sin. So, this person goes to church all their lives and is "good" according to our modern day Christian beliefs of what being "good" is.

BUT this person over eats all their life and is guilty of gluttony which is sinning. In your idea of religion - this person would go to hell for their sin. This person is "denying" God with their constant sinning.

There are dozens of examples like this.

Salvation is based on what Christ has done not by what we do. That's why they call it the gospel of the grace of Christ.
well, while sleep flees me, one must understand that God knows the heart. Even before David was born God said"He will be a man after my own heart" yet He was a murderer,an adulterer, and sinned by numbering Israel. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. Abraham failed by sleeping with his wife's handmaid, but then triumphed by offering his son. Moses failed by striking the rock and not speaking to it. Solomon failed because he loved permissive sex. Sampson failed for the same reason. The fact is that we all fail and is why we need the cross. Paul failed, Peter failed, we are imperfect beings that have the perfect in us. Thank God for the cross and thank you Jesus that you said not my will but your will be done. Praise God and Thank you Jesus.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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no, the person that continues in gluttony is probably just temporarily "lost" , or away from Christ... I think we've ALL been there at some time in our life... I was for several years...but I came back.

I'm talking about someone that just tells God basically to go to h....

They are in the same condition as one that refuses Jesus.... they refuse to be saved. That's what I mean by giving it up.
What do you mean by "refusing Christ"? Sin does not separate the Christian from Christ. So, you are saying a Christian is "refusing to be saved"? How in the world would they do that?

So, in your scenario a Christian is telling God to go to h... I heard that Job told God to take off too and leave him alone but God came to him and gave him 2x times what he had before once he got to know God for who He really is. That theory doesn't hold water.

No real Christian will act like you say. This is all hypothetical and not based on the gospel at all.

Again you are basing things on what they do and not what Christ did. That is not the gospel of the grace of Christ.

The person in gluttony qualifies as one that is sinning all their life so you are saying that that person if they died while in gluttony - they would still go to heaven despite the sin of gluttony?
 
Apr 22, 2016
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The Christian's will is to go to heaven. I have never heard of a person born of the Holy Spirit no matter what condition they were in, say they didn't want to go to heaven. I can see people's minds so messed up that they don't know what they are saying. Remember man look on the outside but God look on the heart.

All Christians have a new spirit created in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness. How do they get un-joined from the Lord? How do they un-born themselves by will power? Can we un-born ourselves by an act of our will now and NOT
become a human? -we can't stop being human and neither can we stop being born of God in our inner man that is in Christ.

How does a person "deny God"? What constitutes denying God in your mind? So, if a person is overcome with a certain sin and doesn't know how to get victory over it for whatever reason..in your scenario - this person goes to hell even though he is born-again?

A lot has to do with what some people call sin too in order to talk about this type of scenario.

We all know that gluttony is a sin. So, this person goes to church all their lives and is "good" according to our modern day Christian beliefs of what being "good" is.

BUT this person over eats all their life and is guilty of gluttony which is sinning. In your idea of religion - this person would go to hell for their sin. This person is "denying" God with their constant sinning.

There are dozens of examples like this.

Salvation is based on what Christ has done not by what we do. That's why they call it the gospel of the grace of Christ.
Ive had people tell me that they used to be a christian and they finally saw the truth and now are atheists. My reply is: You were never apart of us. You never knew Christ and the wind of the Holy Spirit because if you had,you would have never walked away!
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Ive had people tell me that they used to be a christian and they finally saw the truth and now are atheists. My reply is: You were never apart of us. You never knew Christ and the wind of the Holy Spirit because if you had,you would have never walked away!
Amen...Yes, I can see that happening for sure..lot's of tares in the church along with the wheat.

Lot's of goats with the sheep too but we don't change from a sheep into a goat when we sin and then when we don't sin we turn back into a sheep again. And there are no "shoats".

Or...maybe .they have been hurt by church people and are speaking from this hurt...only God knows their heart whether they belong to Him or not.
 
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RobbyEarl

Guest
Ive had people tell me that they used to be a christian and they finally saw the truth and now are atheists. My reply is: You were never apart of us. You never knew Christ and the wind of the Holy Spirit because if you had,you would have never walked away!
A sower went about to sow and some fell on the rocks and others fell on stony ground and some fell on good ground. It is still the seed and they accepted but for the cares of this world they went astray.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,475
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So... my answer was chopped liver?

I think a person cannot lose it through sin...but, they can willingly give up their salvation, walk away from God.

So, if a person does that, and lives the rest of his life denying God, and refusing his grace, then dies in that condition, you think that God will go ahead and take him to glory against his will?
Who said the person in Hebrews 10:26 was saved and then gave up their salvation? In Hebrews 10:39, we see that such a person drew back to perdition and did not believe to the saving of the soul. In regards to "there remains no sacrifice for sins," the Amplified Bible explains it nicely. Hebrews 10:26 - For if we go on willfully and deliberately sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice [to atone] for our sins [that is, no further offering to anticipate].
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Who said the person in Hebrews 10:26 was saved and then gave up their salvation? In Hebrews 10:39, we see that such a person drew back to perdition and did not believe to the saving of the soul. In regards to "there remains no sacrifice for sins," the Amplified Bible explains it nicely. Hebrews 10:26 - For if we go on willfully and deliberately sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice [to atone] for our sins [that is, no further offering to anticipate].
Amen Dan.

The only willful sin talked about in the book of Hebrews is the rejecting of the sacrifice of Jesus for our salvation. Unbelief in Him is the willful sin when we have heard of the knowledge of Christ only for salvation.

This is why the author of the book of Hebrews spends so much time setting up the knowledge of Christ being the Messiah, the differences between the New and Old Covenants and the High Priest now before speaking about rejecting Christ in chapter 10.

I can imagine this was a hard pill for Jews to swallow because all their life they had been taught to depend on the law and the temple sacrifices. I can see that the Holy Spirit would have used these words to bring the Jews to Christ because a few years after the book of Hebrews was written - the temple was destroyed in 70AD and thus ended temple sacrifices.
 
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Sep 4, 2012
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Ive had people tell me that they used to be a christian and they finally saw the truth and now are atheists. My reply is: You were never apart of us. You never knew Christ and the wind of the Holy Spirit because if you had,you would have never walked away!
Riiight... And what distinguishes you from them?
 
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