Losing Salvation
- Thread starter KenAllan
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Amen, thank you.
Careful, though, I've said that repeatedly and have been trashed by this and another one, and ppl cried that I was a meanie, reported and threatened me.
Oh, yeah, and one then disparaged my Dad to boot.
We're from a coal-mining family and my pop
was 42 years full time military,
and some internet dweeb is gonna say ANYTHING?!
Yah, ok.
Anyway, point is, once you start pointing out how these ppl lie and make false accusations,
watch how you get treated, just for speaking the truth.
God bless you, sister.
You started you're answer with 'Because',but I'm sorry,
I wasn't catching the flow of the question/answer.
What do you mean, because? Because in response to what?
My post was one of those 'rhetorical sarcasms', That's why I highlighted the earlier line in red about the 'genuinely saved' and 'conditional security'.
Of COURSE, the genuinely saved CAN'T lose their salvation!
That's why it's called SAVED.
That's why Jesus SAVED us.
So that we would be SAVED! \
/
My sister does not speak for any 'lawless-grace' clan.
She's a born-again, blood-bought child of God.
Watch it, bucko!
Careful, though, I've said that repeatedly and have been trashed by this and another one, and ppl cried that I was a meanie, reported and threatened me.
Oh, yeah, and one then disparaged my Dad to boot.
We're from a coal-mining family and my pop
was 42 years full time military,
and some internet dweeb is gonna say ANYTHING?!
Yah, ok.
Anyway, point is, once you start pointing out how these ppl lie and make false accusations,
watch how you get treated, just for speaking the truth.
God bless you, sister.
You started you're answer with 'Because',but I'm sorry,
I wasn't catching the flow of the question/answer.
What do you mean, because? Because in response to what?
My post was one of those 'rhetorical sarcasms', That's why I highlighted the earlier line in red about the 'genuinely saved' and 'conditional security'.
Of COURSE, the genuinely saved CAN'T lose their salvation!
That's why it's called SAVED.
That's why Jesus SAVED us.
So that we would be SAVED! \
/My sister does not speak for any 'lawless-grace' clan.
She's a born-again, blood-bought child of God.
Watch it, bucko!
I agree....I too would like to know their answers.
To me the only sin that will keep you from being with the Lord is the sin of rejecting Christ's sacrifice and not receiving His grace through faith. I received Christ when I was around 13 years of age kneeling by my bed. That's when I was born again. I had the witness of the Holy Spirit within me. A few years later I was water baptized. I am forever united with Christ. I am a new creation in Christ. My inner man was created in righteousness and holiness when I believed. Now I'm getting my mind renewed to what Christ as done for me so that I can work out the salvation that is already inside of me.
To me, it is impossible for a person to lose salvation because it is based on what Christ did and not on me. He would have to lose His righteousness because I am one with Him - in order for me to lose what He has given to me.
If I live by my flesh instead of the spirit within me - I will have a terrible life here on this earth but that does not affect the inner man who is created in Christ.
Maybe someone will answer you that believes in their "creating" and "maintaining" their own salvation. I think your questions are legitimate and will reveal what is being taught by others.
To me the only sin that will keep you from being with the Lord is the sin of rejecting Christ's sacrifice and not receiving His grace through faith. I received Christ when I was around 13 years of age kneeling by my bed. That's when I was born again. I had the witness of the Holy Spirit within me. A few years later I was water baptized. I am forever united with Christ. I am a new creation in Christ. My inner man was created in righteousness and holiness when I believed. Now I'm getting my mind renewed to what Christ as done for me so that I can work out the salvation that is already inside of me.
To me, it is impossible for a person to lose salvation because it is based on what Christ did and not on me. He would have to lose His righteousness because I am one with Him - in order for me to lose what He has given to me.
If I live by my flesh instead of the spirit within me - I will have a terrible life here on this earth but that does not affect the inner man who is created in Christ.
Maybe someone will answer you that believes in their "creating" and "maintaining" their own salvation. I think your questions are legitimate and will reveal what is being taught by others.
So... my answer was chopped liver?
I think a person cannot lose it through sin...but, they can willingly give up their salvation, walk away from God.
So, if a person does that, and lives the rest of his life denying God, and refusing his grace, then dies in that condition, you think that God will go ahead and take him to glory against his will?
I think a person cannot lose it through sin...but, they can willingly give up their salvation, walk away from God.
So, if a person does that, and lives the rest of his life denying God, and refusing his grace, then dies in that condition, you think that God will go ahead and take him to glory against his will?
P
I walked away from God for YEARS and it wasn;t people threatening me with hell or telling me every sin I committed drove another nail into Christ's hands. I was so sin conscious that I felt like a disappoinment to God and a disgrace to Christianity and unable to even speak about Jesus because I wasn't worthy.
It was His love that melted my heart and even more so realizing how underserving I was, His love which never fails.
My message now-don't look at me or others, look at Jesus, for without Him we are nothing.
It was His love that melted my heart and even more so realizing how underserving I was, His love which never fails.
My message now-don't look at me or others, look at Jesus, for without Him we are nothing.
The Christian's will is to go to heaven. I have never heard of a person born of the Holy Spirit no matter what condition they were in, say they didn't want to go to heaven. I can see people's minds so messed up that they don't know what they are saying. Remember man look on the outside but God look on the heart.
All Christians have a new spirit created in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness. How do they get un-joined from the Lord? How do they un-born themselves by will power? Can we un-born ourselves by an act of our will now and NOT become a human? -we can't stop being human and neither can we stop being born of God in our inner man that is in Christ.
How does a person "deny God"? What constitutes denying God in your mind? So, if a person is overcome with a certain sin and doesn't know how to get victory over it for whatever reason..in your scenario - this person goes to hell even though he is born-again?
A lot has to do with what some people call sin too in order to talk about this type of scenario.
We all know that gluttony is a sin. So, this person goes to church all their lives and is "good" according to our modern day Christian beliefs of what being "good" is.
BUT this person over eats all their life and is guilty of gluttony which is sinning. In your idea of religion - this person would go to hell for their sin. This person is "denying" God with their constant sinning.
There are dozens of examples like this.
Salvation is based on what Christ has done not by what we do. That's why they call it the gospel of the grace of Christ.
All Christians have a new spirit created in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness. How do they get un-joined from the Lord? How do they un-born themselves by will power? Can we un-born ourselves by an act of our will now and NOT become a human? -we can't stop being human and neither can we stop being born of God in our inner man that is in Christ.
How does a person "deny God"? What constitutes denying God in your mind? So, if a person is overcome with a certain sin and doesn't know how to get victory over it for whatever reason..in your scenario - this person goes to hell even though he is born-again?
A lot has to do with what some people call sin too in order to talk about this type of scenario.
We all know that gluttony is a sin. So, this person goes to church all their lives and is "good" according to our modern day Christian beliefs of what being "good" is.
BUT this person over eats all their life and is guilty of gluttony which is sinning. In your idea of religion - this person would go to hell for their sin. This person is "denying" God with their constant sinning.
There are dozens of examples like this.
Salvation is based on what Christ has done not by what we do. That's why they call it the gospel of the grace of Christ.
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no, the person that continues in gluttony is probably just temporarily "lost" , or away from Christ... I think we've ALL been there at some time in our life... I was for several years...but I came back.
I'm talking about someone that just tells God basically to go to h....
They are in the same condition as one that refuses Jesus.... they refuse to be saved. That's what I mean by giving it up.
I'm talking about someone that just tells God basically to go to h....
They are in the same condition as one that refuses Jesus.... they refuse to be saved. That's what I mean by giving it up.
R
well, while sleep flees me, one must understand that God knows the heart. Even before David was born God said"He will be a man after my own heart" yet He was a murderer,an adulterer, and sinned by numbering Israel. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. Abraham failed by sleeping with his wife's handmaid, but then triumphed by offering his son. Moses failed by striking the rock and not speaking to it. Solomon failed because he loved permissive sex. Sampson failed for the same reason. The fact is that we all fail and is why we need the cross. Paul failed, Peter failed, we are imperfect beings that have the perfect in us. Thank God for the cross and thank you Jesus that you said not my will but your will be done. Praise God and Thank you Jesus.
What do you mean by "refusing Christ"? Sin does not separate the Christian from Christ. So, you are saying a Christian is "refusing to be saved"? How in the world would they do that?
So, in your scenario a Christian is telling God to go to h... I heard that Job told God to take off too and leave him alone but God came to him and gave him 2x times what he had before once he got to know God for who He really is. That theory doesn't hold water.
No real Christian will act like you say. This is all hypothetical and not based on the gospel at all.
Again you are basing things on what they do and not what Christ did. That is not the gospel of the grace of Christ.
The person in gluttony qualifies as one that is sinning all their life so you are saying that that person if they died while in gluttony - they would still go to heaven despite the sin of gluttony?
So, in your scenario a Christian is telling God to go to h... I heard that Job told God to take off too and leave him alone but God came to him and gave him 2x times what he had before once he got to know God for who He really is. That theory doesn't hold water.
No real Christian will act like you say. This is all hypothetical and not based on the gospel at all.
Again you are basing things on what they do and not what Christ did. That is not the gospel of the grace of Christ.
The person in gluttony qualifies as one that is sinning all their life so you are saying that that person if they died while in gluttony - they would still go to heaven despite the sin of gluttony?
Amen...Yes, I can see that happening for sure..lot's of tares in the church along with the wheat.
Lot's of goats with the sheep too but we don't change from a sheep into a goat when we sin and then when we don't sin we turn back into a sheep again. And there are no "shoats".
Or...maybe .they have been hurt by church people and are speaking from this hurt...only God knows their heart whether they belong to Him or not.
Lot's of goats with the sheep too but we don't change from a sheep into a goat when we sin and then when we don't sin we turn back into a sheep again. And there are no "shoats".
Or...maybe .they have been hurt by church people and are speaking from this hurt...only God knows their heart whether they belong to Him or not.
Who said the person in Hebrews 10:26 was saved and then gave up their salvation? In Hebrews 10:39, we see that such a person drew back to perdition and did not believe to the saving of the soul. In regards to "there remains no sacrifice for sins," the Amplified Bible explains it nicely. Hebrews 10:26 - For if we go on willfully and deliberately sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice [to atone] for our sins [that is, no further offering to anticipate].
Amen Dan.
The only willful sin talked about in the book of Hebrews is the rejecting of the sacrifice of Jesus for our salvation. Unbelief in Him is the willful sin when we have heard of the knowledge of Christ only for salvation.
This is why the author of the book of Hebrews spends so much time setting up the knowledge of Christ being the Messiah, the differences between the New and Old Covenants and the High Priest now before speaking about rejecting Christ in chapter 10.
I can imagine this was a hard pill for Jews to swallow because all their life they had been taught to depend on the law and the temple sacrifices. I can see that the Holy Spirit would have used these words to bring the Jews to Christ because a few years after the book of Hebrews was written - the temple was destroyed in 70AD and thus ended temple sacrifices.
The only willful sin talked about in the book of Hebrews is the rejecting of the sacrifice of Jesus for our salvation. Unbelief in Him is the willful sin when we have heard of the knowledge of Christ only for salvation.
This is why the author of the book of Hebrews spends so much time setting up the knowledge of Christ being the Messiah, the differences between the New and Old Covenants and the High Priest now before speaking about rejecting Christ in chapter 10.
I can imagine this was a hard pill for Jews to swallow because all their life they had been taught to depend on the law and the temple sacrifices. I can see that the Holy Spirit would have used these words to bring the Jews to Christ because a few years after the book of Hebrews was written - the temple was destroyed in 70AD and thus ended temple sacrifices.
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