Loss of Salvation What the Bible says about it!
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Elder I have finished reviewing your treatise and I confess there are some convincing arguments. I have no choice but to agree that once saved isn't always saved. I did have conflict with that theology prior. My only reservation is this; sinning willfully is not an automatic damnation. However I can believe with an unrepentant heart you can quench the Spirit. I think even in your own treatise you provide an argument for this. It seems like today's Christianity is not even close to being as pure as when Paul preached. Conflicting messages are rampant in the church. For someone to get the whole truth all at once in itself would be miraculous. God has shown Himself to be patient. I have a hard time believing that One who has adopted us and desires to be our Father would be so rash as to disown us almost as soon as we accept Him. Although it was lengthy I hope people did take the time to read it. I myself felt convicted and now possess a renewed vitality for a more vibrant faith. Thanks and God bless.
I agree with what you are saying hungry. thats why I beleive that what Heb 6 and 10 are talking about is the sin of apostacy! it is when a beliver has trampled the gospel under his feet and rejected God. But I already said that in my study.
I am glad that you took the time to read it! Thank you. And I am glad that it is helping you in your walk with God! Thats what its intended to do!
the danger of the eternal security doctine as it is being taught in our churches is that it will gaurantee that belivers will become lukewarm and carnel, and keep them there! Thus in the end this doctrine causes people to go to hell! Thats why this study is so very important for the church today! I hope more people read it and then get on fire for God as a result of it!
God bless you my brother,
Elder1
I am glad that you took the time to read it! Thank you. And I am glad that it is helping you in your walk with God! Thats what its intended to do!
the danger of the eternal security doctine as it is being taught in our churches is that it will gaurantee that belivers will become lukewarm and carnel, and keep them there! Thus in the end this doctrine causes people to go to hell! Thats why this study is so very important for the church today! I hope more people read it and then get on fire for God as a result of it!
God bless you my brother,
Elder1
I am sorry that you call Gods word and a correct exogesis of it 'nonsense'. And I strongly suspect that you have condemned it without even reading it! The tretise I have done is a careful, resposible, and credible work on the subject of loss of salvation. You are a fool if you do not read it and take heed to the warnings that God gives us in the bible. And to be honest with you, your vary salvation could depend on wether or not you fead this treatise. For it is very possible, that you are not currently saved!
By the way, the old testament is only valid isofar as it does not contradict the new test! for new covenant that has been given to us in the new testament replaces the old testament covenant. and the new testamtent says that you can forfeit your salvation.
Elder
By the way, the old testament is only valid isofar as it does not contradict the new test! for new covenant that has been given to us in the new testament replaces the old testament covenant. and the new testamtent says that you can forfeit your salvation.
Elder
I have read your so called "treatise" through and it is so full of errors and assumptions out of the blue that I can't recommend it for more than a scary example of ignorance. You are lying when you say that I call God's word "nonsense" and your so called exegesis (not "exogesis"), for which you proudly commend yourself and boast about, is NOT correct.
It's nothing new. It is nothing but the typical synergist/arminian ranting which all boils down to that salvation is conditioned on the work of the sinner, not the work of Christ alone. God just "aiding" man to work a little better to become just, not justifying him through His redemption. Justification being laid in the sinner and not in Christ alone. No gospel. Why? Because every person who believes and teaches such things is ignorant about the righteousness of God, which is revealed in the gospel, and is still going about to establish his own righteousness, not having submitted to the righteousness of God.
Yes, people are said to "fall away" in the NT, people who were known by others as christians and who experienced the same things as christians, and they were in the churches that the apostles shepherded. But did these people ever belong to God? Did they ever believe the gospel? Did they ever repent from their selfrighteousness? That's another thing entirely.
I suggest you repent of your pride and trust in self and your commitment to your own erroneous understanding, instead submitting to the righteousness of God, which is Christ Jesus.
It's nothing new. It is nothing but the typical synergist/arminian ranting which all boils down to that salvation is conditioned on the work of the sinner, not the work of Christ alone. God just "aiding" man to work a little better to become just, not justifying him through His redemption. Justification being laid in the sinner and not in Christ alone. No gospel. Why? Because every person who believes and teaches such things is ignorant about the righteousness of God, which is revealed in the gospel, and is still going about to establish his own righteousness, not having submitted to the righteousness of God.
Yes, people are said to "fall away" in the NT, people who were known by others as christians and who experienced the same things as christians, and they were in the churches that the apostles shepherded. But did these people ever belong to God? Did they ever believe the gospel? Did they ever repent from their selfrighteousness? That's another thing entirely.
I suggest you repent of your pride and trust in self and your commitment to your own erroneous understanding, instead submitting to the righteousness of God, which is Christ Jesus.
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While the word "backsliding" is not in the NT, the concept is there. Backsliding is a gradual process that starts with heart defilement then is manifested outwardly either through sins of the flesh or spiritual laxity. A backslider is someone who was once saved but turned away from God to follow the world, lost eagerness for communing with God, and compromised their faith.
Here are some passages alluding to it:
Matt 24:11-13
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
1 Tim 1:19-20
19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
1 Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Tim 4:10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.
Rev 2:4-5
4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Even though those parables were targeted to Israel that does not mean we can't find some relevance in them. God does not compromise His standards in regards to holiness and entry into His kingdom (Matt 5:8, Heb 12:14). Hope is still available for backsliders and the Lord is still revealing to them His abundant grace so they ought to return to Him (Rev 3:20), otherwise they will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor 6:9-10, Gal 5:19-21, Rev 21:8). The scripture does not give comfort and security to those living in sin but to those who are following Jesus and living in obedience to Him. John 10:27-28 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.
Here are some passages alluding to it:
Matt 24:11-13
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
1 Tim 1:19-20
19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
1 Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Tim 4:10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.
Rev 2:4-5
4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Even though those parables were targeted to Israel that does not mean we can't find some relevance in them. God does not compromise His standards in regards to holiness and entry into His kingdom (Matt 5:8, Heb 12:14). Hope is still available for backsliders and the Lord is still revealing to them His abundant grace so they ought to return to Him (Rev 3:20), otherwise they will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Cor 6:9-10, Gal 5:19-21, Rev 21:8). The scripture does not give comfort and security to those living in sin but to those who are following Jesus and living in obedience to Him. John 10:27-28 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.
Could one of you please explain this? Why did Jesus pray this after He has said this to HIS DISCIPLES right after His transfiguration and they down from the mountain and they can not cast a demon
Matthew 17
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
John 17
17 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Please note this is in the garden,Jesus says they are all His He has not lost a single one expect for the son of perdition. This is before all of the disciples flee and BEFORE PETER WILL DENY HIM THREE TIMES and Jesus knows that they will do it yet He stills prays the above,yet He still says He has not lost one of them. Why does He say that even though He knows they will do what they are about to do? Can anyone show me where they had come to the point of "being" sinless at this point and yet Jesus says they 'kept" his words? What is the point that Jesus is trying to get across?
Matthew 17
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
John 17
17 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Please note this is in the garden,Jesus says they are all His He has not lost a single one expect for the son of perdition. This is before all of the disciples flee and BEFORE PETER WILL DENY HIM THREE TIMES and Jesus knows that they will do it yet He stills prays the above,yet He still says He has not lost one of them. Why does He say that even though He knows they will do what they are about to do? Can anyone show me where they had come to the point of "being" sinless at this point and yet Jesus says they 'kept" his words? What is the point that Jesus is trying to get across?
I see that you are not smart enough to understand truth when you see it! I also see that your theology is not honest: mine is!
You are a wolf in sheeps clothing who neither understands the word of God nor submitts to it! You obviosly are not a servant of Jesus, for you reject what Jesus taught! those who love and serve jesus do not reject His word as you have done!
I hope and pray that God will reveal your true nature to everyone else so that no one will give any weight to what you say on anything! As you are a false teacher and nothing you say is credible!
You are a wolf in sheeps clothing who neither understands the word of God nor submitts to it! You obviosly are not a servant of Jesus, for you reject what Jesus taught! those who love and serve jesus do not reject His word as you have done!
I hope and pray that God will reveal your true nature to everyone else so that no one will give any weight to what you say on anything! As you are a false teacher and nothing you say is credible!
i was speaking specifically to the Bishop, about a specific detail.
i know the word backsliding is not in the NT.
it refers to israel the nation and idolatry.
the very reason the parables were spoken to them (the apostates who did not return from their backsliding...whose backslidings were not healed), as parables. all of which was foretold.
the ones who were healed became christians < remnant.
thanks.
i know the word backsliding is not in the NT.
it refers to israel the nation and idolatry.
the very reason the parables were spoken to them (the apostates who did not return from their backsliding...whose backslidings were not healed), as parables. all of which was foretold.
the ones who were healed became christians < remnant.
thanks.
Now you have once again shown your true colors to all: unregenerate and a false teacher, teaching a false gospel, puffed up in your self righteous pride. No "brother" and "friend" at all. Your belief is in nothing but yourself and your own self-deceived imagined excellency, which is clearly shown in your proud posts here. God resists you, because you are proud. Repent or perish.
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Philippians 1
[SUP]6 [/SUP]being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;
