Loss of salvation.
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R
So did Paul...
"you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you"-1 Corinthians 15:2
'Saved' and 'hold fast' are both in the present tense.
As I'm showing you, if anybody added that condition, the condition of present believing, Paul did.
People who are not presently believing are not saved.
God establishes and keeps you, but that hardly means you don't have to do anything. It means you have to keep believing in his power to establish and keep you. That's hardly a works gospel. Believing to be saved is not even remotely a works gospel.
You did, but I think people should know that the Galatians show us that God is patient with us and will give us some time to reconsider and come back to trust in Christ for justification.
Your church isn't going to tell you this but if you stop believing in Christ for justification you won't have His blood to protect you from the coming wrath of Judgment. You don't get to keep that which you no longer trust in.
God will in fact complete what he began in you if you keep trusting him to do that. He will not let you down like the Levitical priesthood would.
That is right. Nothing happens, or is possible, without God in it. But that hardly means you don't have to be in it, too, through your believing.
You are not literally a new organism. You are the same body, soul, and spirit you were before but now made new in character by the power of the Spirit in you to sever you from your old way of thinking and behaving (Paul calls that the mind set on the flesh). All God has to do is remove his Holy Spirit from you and your body, soul, and spirit go back to being the old corrupted body, soul, and spirit they were before. But he won't do that as long as you keep trusting in Christ:
"And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard"-Colossians 1:21-23
"you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you"-1 Corinthians 15:2
'Saved' and 'hold fast' are both in the present tense.
As I'm showing you, if anybody added that condition, the condition of present believing, Paul did.
People who are not presently believing are not saved.
God establishes and keeps you, but that hardly means you don't have to do anything. It means you have to keep believing in his power to establish and keep you. That's hardly a works gospel. Believing to be saved is not even remotely a works gospel.
You did, but I think people should know that the Galatians show us that God is patient with us and will give us some time to reconsider and come back to trust in Christ for justification.
Your church isn't going to tell you this but if you stop believing in Christ for justification you won't have His blood to protect you from the coming wrath of Judgment. You don't get to keep that which you no longer trust in.
God will in fact complete what he began in you if you keep trusting him to do that. He will not let you down like the Levitical priesthood would.
That is right. Nothing happens, or is possible, without God in it. But that hardly means you don't have to be in it, too, through your believing.
You are not literally a new organism. You are the same body, soul, and spirit you were before but now made new in character by the power of the Spirit in you to sever you from your old way of thinking and behaving (Paul calls that the mind set on the flesh). All God has to do is remove his Holy Spirit from you and your body, soul, and spirit go back to being the old corrupted body, soul, and spirit they were before. But he won't do that as long as you keep trusting in Christ:
"And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard"-Colossians 1:21-23
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Again, Jesus is a person. He's not some mystical vapor that permeates everything. His holy spirit dwells in us and conforms us into his likeness.
Regarding the verse above, Paul was speaking of the fact that the only way we can know righteousness (Christ) is through the holy spirit.
The world once knew him in the flesh, but cannot any longer because he's not here. This is the same thing that Jesus mentioned when he said that he was going away, and the disciples would no longer see him (his body), but then they would see him (through the holy spirit); and when he said that the holy spirit was coming to convince the world of righteousness because it sees him no more (John 16:10).
Also, Jesus mentions in John 16 that the father will live in each believer. That can only happen through the spirit because the father doesn't dwell on earth, and never will until it is entirely cleansed of sin.
Regarding the verse above, Paul was speaking of the fact that the only way we can know righteousness (Christ) is through the holy spirit.
So that from the present we know nothing according to flesh. And if also we have known Christ according to flesh, but now no longer do we know [him thus]. 2 Corinthians 5:16
The world once knew him in the flesh, but cannot any longer because he's not here. This is the same thing that Jesus mentioned when he said that he was going away, and the disciples would no longer see him (his body), but then they would see him (through the holy spirit); and when he said that the holy spirit was coming to convince the world of righteousness because it sees him no more (John 16:10).
Also, Jesus mentions in John 16 that the father will live in each believer. That can only happen through the spirit because the father doesn't dwell on earth, and never will until it is entirely cleansed of sin.
ALL of our sins were paid for on the cross when Jesus died. There is no switching back and forth from saved to unsaved back to saved again. You don't lose your salvation when you sin.
WHEN(!) you sin, you still have fellowship with God, you just don't want to face Him because you know you are guilty. But through Jesus, we are not guilty so, though Jesus, we can go directly to God even in the midst of our sin. This is not to be done frivolously, of course. But even as we sin we can be asking God to help us overcome this sin and never do it again.
If it is an addiction, then we need to get help, but normally I am confident that we should be asking God for forgiveness and repentance immediately when we realize we are wrong.
R
That's why your faith is well placed when you trust in Christ. So don't stop trusting. He won't let you down. But if you leave him in unbelief there is nothing he can do for you when you get to the Judgment. The power of his ministry to protect us is applied through faith:
"5who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."-1 Peter 1:5
The protection of God comes to us through faith. That's why if you stop believing you no longer have God's power to protect and keep you until the day of salvation.
"5who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."-1 Peter 1:5
The protection of God comes to us through faith. That's why if you stop believing you no longer have God's power to protect and keep you until the day of salvation.
A good example to show this is the many times Israel sinned, but GOD didn't cast them away for the sake of his covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It's the same today. GOD remains faithful to his covenant with Israel in the persons of the apostles to forgive our sins.
And [after] taking the cup and giving thanks he gave [it] to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant which is poured out for many into the forgiveness of sins. Matthew 26:27-28
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, so that he will forgive us [our] sins and will cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, so that he will forgive us [our] sins and will cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9
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E
Faith is not an act, it is a place we come to, a place we areive when we have been brought to our knees like the tax collector. It is the place which brings us to repentance, humility and emptying of ourselves in acknowedging what god says about us, and realising our need for a savior. It isa place where we rely on total dependance on God, thats why it will never be lost, because the one we place our faith in will never fail us, if we think he can fail us, our faith is not real
If you think it is just an act, that explains why you do not understand it.
E
1. I do not get my doctrine from google
2.you will not find it in the OT because he price had not been paid yet, the seal of the spirit was not promised until after christ finished the work of th cross
Again, if we deny him we are deemd an antichrist,
1 john 2: 22Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either;
and as john said you were never saved to begin with,
1 john 2: 18-19 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the[c] Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
why you keep denying john is beyond my understanding.
2.you will not find it in the OT because he price had not been paid yet, the seal of the spirit was not promised until after christ finished the work of th cross
Again, if we deny him we are deemd an antichrist,
1 john 2: 22Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either;
and as john said you were never saved to begin with,
1 john 2: 18-19 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the[c] Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
why you keep denying john is beyond my understanding.
Ralph,
Regarding the Scripture you posted:
"you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you"-1 Corinthians 15:2
The focus of this Scripture is about them believing the correct gospel, I wrote about this extensively in another post.
"And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard"-Colossians 1:21-23
If you take the overwhelming body of Scripture, you'll see that being saved is done by God, there are a few Scriptures including this one that appear to put the work on the believer. But they like this one can be explained in light of the entire body of Scripture.
This is about being sanctified. The focus is being presented to Him "holy, blameless, without blemish"... faith saves us and as we continue in we come into sanctification and maturity. Notice it says the "hope of the gospel"...
Compare that to the Scripture here:
1 John 3:2Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. 3And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.
The hope to be like Him, purifies us, this is exactly the same as "continuing in the faith"... we are God's children now like I've explained, we are reborn in the Spirit and now we are being purified by our hope in Him.
This also coincidently relates to the other posts I've made in this thread about Christ being formed in us.
Regarding the Scripture you posted:
"you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you"-1 Corinthians 15:2
The focus of this Scripture is about them believing the correct gospel, I wrote about this extensively in another post.
"And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard"-Colossians 1:21-23
If you take the overwhelming body of Scripture, you'll see that being saved is done by God, there are a few Scriptures including this one that appear to put the work on the believer. But they like this one can be explained in light of the entire body of Scripture.
This is about being sanctified. The focus is being presented to Him "holy, blameless, without blemish"... faith saves us and as we continue in we come into sanctification and maturity. Notice it says the "hope of the gospel"...
Compare that to the Scripture here:
1 John 3:2Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. 3And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.
The hope to be like Him, purifies us, this is exactly the same as "continuing in the faith"... we are God's children now like I've explained, we are reborn in the Spirit and now we are being purified by our hope in Him.
This also coincidently relates to the other posts I've made in this thread about Christ being formed in us.
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I know what it means Ralph, you are once again saying this Scripture is "figurative". I don't know about you, but when my continual answer is that these Scriptures are figurative, it makes me rethink my paradigm. Scripture is overwhelmingly literal. When Jesus says I say to you unless a man be born again... He's not being figurative.
This was completely cemented when they reply, "How can a person be reborn again?" Jesus doesn't say, oh that was just a figure of speech! Jesus explains about the Spirit. These are real literal realities, Paul isn't being figurative saying, hey you can live vicariously through Jesus here on Earth! He's explaining to them spiritual truths that need to be received by the Spirit of God.
1 Co 2:14 13And this is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
This was completely cemented when they reply, "How can a person be reborn again?" Jesus doesn't say, oh that was just a figure of speech! Jesus explains about the Spirit. These are real literal realities, Paul isn't being figurative saying, hey you can live vicariously through Jesus here on Earth! He's explaining to them spiritual truths that need to be received by the Spirit of God.
1 Co 2:14 13And this is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
You're saying that merely having hope in Christ purifies us? I think it's more realistic to interpret that verse as saying that those who hope in Christ purify themselves by abstaining from sinful behavior and having faith to be cleansed of sin when they fail. That's the real context of what follows (1 John 3:4-10)
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I'm directly quoting the Scripture, our hope in Him purifies us as He Himself is pure. The focus of this Scripture is on the purity of Christ, who lives in us. And we are just like Him. John explains who they are in Christ and then later he explains what that looks like practically.
Paul uses this same pattern here in 1 Corinithians 6.
First he lists things that won't inherit the Kingdom, like lying, fornicating, stealing etc. And he concludes with this little gem here:
And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Then he goes on to explain not to have sex with prostitutes at the temple, etc. And he explains why here:
17But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.
Paul's focus is on the purity of the Spirit they are now joined with, this is step 1. Step 2 is explaining what this looks like in a practical sense.
Which he does next:
18Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. 19Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 20for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.
Paul uses this same pattern here in 1 Corinithians 6.
First he lists things that won't inherit the Kingdom, like lying, fornicating, stealing etc. And he concludes with this little gem here:
And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Then he goes on to explain not to have sex with prostitutes at the temple, etc. And he explains why here:
17But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.
Paul's focus is on the purity of the Spirit they are now joined with, this is step 1. Step 2 is explaining what this looks like in a practical sense.
Which he does next:
18Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body. 19Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 20for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.
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The one who is believing has eternal life.
The one who is not believing does not have eternal life.
How does one go from not believing to believing? by beginning to believe
How does one go from believing to not believing? by ceasing to believe
Actually quite simple question: I am attempting to answer the original question of the OP.
Can we tell who is truly believing? Not always - only God can determine eternal destiny
The one who is not believing does not have eternal life.
How does one go from not believing to believing? by beginning to believe
How does one go from believing to not believing? by ceasing to believe
Actually quite simple question: I am attempting to answer the original question of the OP.
Can we tell who is truly believing? Not always - only God can determine eternal destiny