Love your enemies.

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Cup, I understand what you are saying, One must accept Jesus to be saved.
No dispute there.
This is simply obeying what Jesus asked us to do.
Love and pray for your enemies.
If I hold hate against my enemy I give them power over me. I give them the fuel to harm me.
By praying for them and Loving them I release them to God Our father.
Im not God, I cannot know who will or will not be saved. That belongs to God. I can only do what I am asked and trust in Jesus.
Failing to forgive is a sin. Failing to love another is a sin also.
How are we to win souls if we hate?
I do not dispute that there are those that reject Jesus and become one kind of enemy.
But do you want to explain to God Our Father when you stand before him how you decided that you were the one that knew who would be saved and who would not?
I can only do what Our Lord Jesus has put on my heart.
I know you must do the same.
All we can do is hope that we all have carried a part of the truth and been obedient to Our Lord Jesus.
God bless, pickles
.

Well just remember that John told us who is saved and who is not "Who is the liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ, he is the antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son" we know Jesus is righteousness, through faith His righteousness is imputed to the believer, therby ye know we are the sons of God, brethren of Jesus, those who He abides in by His spirit are forgiven, "Hereby we know the Spirit of God every Spirit that confesseth that Christ is come in the flesh is of God" in Him and He in us there is propriation for our sins, in this brethren ye should love one another and NOT the 'kosmos' world order, or those of the world, for ye are not of the world order of the antichrist but are chosen out of the world.

John also says that the Son of God had witness in himself a record from God, if they do not believe then they make God a liar, "He that hath the Son hath life, he who does not have the Son does not have life." and then John says if a brother/sister in Christ stumbles, if their is transgression not unto death, so not rejection of the Son, but a lapse in pursuit of the Lord, then pray for them. No Apostle ever preached that Christains should pray for antichrists that they be forgive for willful sin, there are to be no enemies in the Kingdom of Christ but outside is destruction and some are not from Him, Jesus says that, God says that, there is the seed of the Devil; "I will put enmity between thy seed, and the seed of the woman", seperation, seperation, 'be a seperate people', the word of God has always been seperation, yet the word of the devil has always been a united world, Jesus divides His sheep from out of the world, He does the saving, He does the soul winning, He does the election, annointing, sanctification, go and teach and diciple on the coming kingdom, the gospel of the kingdom salvation in Christ, we are not called to forgive those that will not have it that He be Lord, we can only pray that the brethren not stumble in this mission, how can someone be forgiven if they are not in the body of Christ? There is no remission of sin outside of Christ.

 

[pickles]

Cup, as I said , I do not dispute those that reject Jesus.
But listen to your own words,or should I say the word.
Jesus divides the sheep, the soul saving,the annoiting....
It is Jesus not you or I.
I can only obey his word.
Love your enemies, pray for them.
Who are we to say that todays enemy may be tomorows saved.
God bless, pickles

 

[MahogonySnail]

I once had an enemy who called me names and hit me. I only smiled and was polite to him. That person became a friend. He came to an introduction about Christianity, and softened up quite a bit.

 

[songster]

ean

Matt. 6:15 "For if ye forgive men their trespasses your heavenly Father will also forgive your trespasses"

if = ean which implies contingency of circumstance - subjunctive mood, a possible condition which rh future will reveal. John 17:7 shows that is contingent on the will of God, it is he that is doing the will of God.

trespasses = paraptoma, now this word is not used for actual evil willful sin, that word is hamartema which means 'sinful act', but paraptoma means 'a falling aside' a 'a fault', it means falling when you stood straight, we may say 'stumble' and this would be in pursuit, believers sometimes stumble and they are in pursuit of the Law, their not willfully breaking God's laws, their not trampling them in the dust and spitting on them and abusing them, thats hamartema that's different, this is a stumbling when the overall intention is good, that is forgiven or you should patiently forgive others the same, but that forgiveness is only possible by and through Christ as Mediator.

Cup,

We are expected to forgive others for both their trespasses, (paraptoma), as well as their transgressions against us, (harmartia)

Jesus prayed a prayer in Luke Chapter 11, known as 'the Lord's prayer'. Believers were also expected to pray in this manner.

In verse 4 it reads, forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. (KJV)

In Luke 11:4 the translation is as follows:

And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us.

the greek word used here for sins is 'harmatia' (transgressions or offenses), therefore Jesus provides an example to forgive not only the trespass debt, but the sin debt, or debt of offenses.

 

[wwjd_kilden]

cup of ruin just likes to bring the wrath of God more than forgiveness. Right Cup?

 

[sword]

Like I said, someone who doesn´t repent from his evil works deserves compassion and prayer but forgiveness without repentance is neither biblical nor just because it would only encourage the sinner to keep on sinning.

 

[songster]

Like I said, someone who doesn´t repent from his evil works deserves compassion and prayer but forgiveness without repentance is neither biblical nor just because it would only encourage the sinner to keep on sinning.

Sword,

What do you make of the Lord's Prayer, Luke 11 which is an example of the manner in which we should pray? Forgive us our transgressions/offenses/willful acts of evil, as we forgive those who are indebted to us. This indebtedness represents a series of offenses commtted against us, not the owing of money. There are no conditions or contingincies in this scripture.

If we base our understanding of forgiveness, immorality, or any conduct, on a single scripture such as ( Luke 17:3, If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him), we run the risk of erring on the side of misinterpretation, making unfounded assumptions about very important areas of Christian conduct. We must read all of the scriptures which apply to a particular principle.

When there are two scriptures seemingly saying two different things, we as Christians should err on the side of caution. For example:

There are nearly 20 scriptures which state that a believer should be water baptized, and yet there are scriptures which also state that believing and confessing, are the only requirments for salvation. Therefore, we as Christians should err on the side of caution and be baptized, if this is possible.

The principles governing forgiveness are not unlike the previous example. If we have found a scripture which seems to say, freely forgive everyone, and yet we find scriptures which provide instruction on 'conditional forgiveness', we as Christians, should then err on the side of caution, and forgive everyone without conditions.

 

[sword]

Sword,

What do you make of the Lord's Prayer, Luke 11 which is an example of the manner in which we should pray? Forgive us our transgressions/offenses/willful acts of evil, as we forgive those who are indebted to us. This indebtedness represents a series of offenses commtted against us, not the owing of money. There are no conditions or contingincies in this scripture.

If we base our understanding of forgiveness, immorality, or any conduct, on a single scripture such as ( Luke 17:3, If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him), we run the risk of erring on the side of misinterpretation, making unfounded assumptions about very important areas of Christian conduct. We must read all of the scriptures which apply to a particular principle.

When there are two scriptures seemingly saying two different things, we as Christians should err on the side of caution. For example:

There are nearly 20 scriptures which state that a believer should be water baptized, and yet there are scriptures which also state that believing and confessing, are the only requirments for salvation. Therefore, we as Christians should err on the side of caution and be baptized, if this is possible.

The principles governing forgiveness are not unlike the previous example. If we have found a scripture which seems to say, freely forgive everyone, and yet we find scriptures which provide instruction on 'conditional forgiveness', we as Christians, should then err on the side of caution, and forgive everyone without conditions.

Brother, forgiveness cannot exist without repentance. just like a car cannot work without wheels. Besides,don´t you think that encouraging a sinner to keep on sinning by "forgiving" without repentance would also be a sin? Isn´t causing your neighnour to keep on sinning also a sin?

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

ean

Matt. 6:15 "For if ye forgive men their trespasses your heavenly Father will also forgive your trespasses"

if = ean which implies contingency of circumstance - subjunctive mood, a possible condition which rh future will reveal. John 17:7 shows that is contingent on the will of God, it is he that is doing the will of God.

trespasses = paraptoma, now this word is not used for actual evil willful sin, that word is hamartema which means 'sinful act', but paraptoma means 'a falling aside' a 'a fault', it means falling when you stood straight, we may say 'stumble' and this would be in pursuit, believers sometimes stumble and they are in pursuit of the Law, their not willfully breaking God's laws, their not trampling them in the dust and spitting on them and abusing them, thats hamartema that's different, this is a stumbling when the overall intention is good, that is forgiven or you should patiently forgive others the same, but that forgiveness is only possible by and through Christ as Mediator.

Cup,

We are expected to forgive others for both their trespasses, (paraptoma), as well as their transgressions against us, (harmartia)

Jesus prayed a prayer in Luke Chapter 11, known as 'the Lord's prayer'. Believers were also expected to pray in this manner.

In verse 4 it reads, forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. (KJV)

In Luke 11:4 the translation is as follows:

And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us.

the greek word used here for sins is 'harmatia' (transgressions or offenses), therefore Jesus provides an example to forgive not only the trespass debt, but the sin debt, or debt of offenses.

As I explained remission of sin is only within the body of Christ by His blood, there is no remssion or forgiveness without His blood, according to the law all debts are forgiven Christians, a Christian may wrong me, I can pray they be forgiven or visa-versa, because of our Mediator between God and man, however an enemy of God I cannot as a Christian pray that God waver their sin against Him, or me as a representative of His body on earth, that would be against His holy law, unless they repent, they will die in their sins, now that is the truth.

Now Luke 11:4 you must translate via Luke 3:3 "preaching baptism for the remission of sin", and then go the James 15:5, i'm telling you this because I have E.W. Bullingers notes, so its not opinion, its all backed by Scripture, you do well to see the difference between trespasses and sin, right, what is the the contingency of circumstance, because there is a condition, as Jesus first preached, baptism in His holy name for the remission of sin same as a trespass, this is only possible in the body of Christ.

 

[songster]

ean

I cannot as a Christian pray that God waver their sin against Him, or me as a representative of His body on earth, that would be against His holy law, unless they repent, they will die in their sins, now that is the truth.

Now Luke 11:4 you must translate via Luke 3:3 "preaching baptism for the remission of sin", and then go the James 15:5, i'm telling you this because I have E.W. Bullingers notes, so its not opinion, its all backed by Scripture, you do well to see the difference between trespasses and sin, right, what is the the contingency of circumstance, because there is a condition, as Jesus first preached, baptism in His holy name for the remission of sin same as a trespass, this is only possible in the body of Christ.

The forgiveness which is extended toward those who commit offenses against us, is not a blotting out of sin, which, as you have said, is only possible through the blood of Christ, but rather a decision not to keep a record of the offense. Let me explain.

When a believer extends forgiveness to the unrepentant, it neither blots out offenses, nor does it cleanse the evildoer. This is not my assertion. You are correct in saying that unless the individual repents they are by no means guiltless. A believer who forgives an offense committed against them by an unbeliever is simply choosing not to keep a record of the act, thereby releasing them completely to God, releasing them from their indebtedness. "Forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who are indebted to us". This forgiveness does not eliminate any future judgment due the offender.

One type of forgiveness is a blotting out of sin resulting from repentance. The other is an act of forgiveness releasing the offender, holding no grudge, seeking no retaliation, and harboring no malice, cancelling indebtedness, not to God but to us. It does not remove the sin from the offender, but allows the believer to conduct him/herself as though the offense had never occurred.