Mark of the Beast --- 666

GodIsSalvation · Aug 13, 2014

Well in terms of Nero, I believe we can safely conclude he was not the Beast seeing as he is quite dead. I would be interested in your guess at the Beast, at the least even if you are wrong we can eliminate another potential. Personally I do not believe the Beast is on this world at this time due to the fact the many preceding signs have not occured.

I am not sure if the Beast will even be a human. We know the Beast's mark will be the number of a man, but it is never explicitly stated that the Beast is actually a human.

@Bookends, heh your comments have had me revisiting ancient Roman history the past few days to try to discover if Revelation was written during Nero or Domitian's reign. Personally I still lean moreso towards Domitian's Reign (though I do not believe Domitian is anymore the Beast than Nero.)

Here is an interesting article I found supporting the theory that Revelation was written during the reign of Domitian.

When was the Revelation of Jesus Christ Written? The testimony of the Church Fathers

I noticed you quoted Jerome beforehand, I am curious as to your opinion of this quote from Jerome (from the same book, Against Jovinianus);

"John is both an Apostle and an Evangelist, and a prophet. An Apostle, because he wrote to the Churches as a master; an Evangelist, because he composed a Gospel, a thing which no other of the Apostles, excepting Matthew, did; a prophet, for he saw in the island of Patmos, to which he had been banished by the Emperor Domitian as a martyr for the Lord, an Apocalypse containing the boundless mysteries of the future."

Heh I did notice one thing though that keep our historical mystery of John alive though. It seems there is a bit of debate whether John died during the reign of Nerva or Trajan. Either way though, I would say we have a pretty solid case that Revelation was written during the time of Domitian, thus nullifying any possibility of Nero being the Beast and also proving preterism to be false. The article also contains statements to support John composing the Revelation during the reign of Domitian from sources like Severus, Victorinus, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Hippolytis, and Eusebius.

Flamingspirit · Aug 13, 2014

I know what the beast is, but most again will not listen in order to uphold their own opinions about it. Just keep in mind that the whole world was deceived, not just the parts we seem to only focus on.

VCO · Aug 13, 2014

Flamingspirit said:

Don't tell you used to read and believe Jack Chick tracts.

GodIsSalvation · Aug 13, 2014

Flamingspirit said:

Perhaps you do. I have my suspicion on one of the Beasts. The other I am not so sure.

Timeline · Aug 13, 2014

The beasts of Revelation were all relating to one nation: Israel! Now, before you call me say that I am saying something "bad" about Israel, I would suggest you consider what God said in the OT and NT. Jerusalem was the whore that sat upon the beast.

Matthew 13:41-43
[SUP]41 [/SUP]The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, [SUP]42 [/SUP]and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. [SUP]43 [/SUP]Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

Revelation 2:7
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.’

Matthew 13:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?” [SUP]11 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. [SUP]14 [/SUP]In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says,
‘You will keep on hearing, but will not understand;
You will keep on seeing, but will not perceive;
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For the heart of this people has become dull,
With their ears they scarcely hear,
And they have closed their eyes,
Otherwise they would see with their eyes,
Hear with their ears,
And understand with their heart and return,
And I would heal them.’

Romans 2:17-24
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But if you bear the name “Jew” and rely upon the Law and boast in God, [SUP]18 [/SUP]and know His will and approve the things that are essential, being instructed out of the Law, [SUP]19 [/SUP]and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, [SUP]20 [/SUP]a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of the immature, having in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth, [SUP]21 [/SUP]you, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that one shall not steal, do you steal? [SUP]22 [/SUP]You who say that one should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? [SUP]23[/SUP]You who boast in the Law, through your breaking the Law, do you dishonor God? [SUP]24 [/SUP]For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” just as it is written.

Romans 11:25-36
[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; [SUP]26 [/SUP]and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,
“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.”
[SUP]27 [/SUP]“This is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

[SUP]28[/SUP]From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; [SUP]29 [/SUP]for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. [SUP]30 [/SUP]For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, [SUP]31 [/SUP]so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. [SUP]32[/SUP]For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! [SUP]34 [/SUP]For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor? [SUP]35 [/SUP]Or who has first given to Him that it might be paid back to him again? [SUP]36 [/SUP]For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.

This is why Revelation is so complicated, imo, because it was given in a parable-type form. Yes, prophetically. And yes, much earlier than most believe. I know that no one will readily accept this, but it is where I currently stand. But, even though y'all will reject this at first glance, I believe that if it sticks in your mind you will start seeing in played out in the gospels and the letters.

Don't hit me

Timeline · Aug 13, 2014

The Church was formed through Israel's transgression. And Israel was restored in the Church. The dividing wall was broken down. We were all bound under sin, so that grace could be extended to all. We are all brothers and sisters IN JESUS CHRIST! We have been made one.

Timeline · Aug 13, 2014

Isaiah 9:13-17
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Yet the people do not turn back to Him who struck them,
Nor do they seek the Lord of hosts.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]So the Lord cuts off head and tail from Israel,
Both palm branch and bulrush in a single day.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]The head is the elder and honorable man,
And the prophet who teaches falsehood is the tail.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For those who guide this people are leading them astray;
And those who are guided by them are brought to confusion.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore the Lord does not take pleasure in their young men,
Nor does He have pity on their orphans or their widows;
For every one of them is godless and an evildoer,
And every mouth is speaking foolishness.
In spite of all this, His anger does not turn away
And His hand is still stretched out.

G4JC · Aug 13, 2014

Wow so much hating on Israel and Jewish people lately...

Flamingspirit · Aug 14, 2014

VCO said:

Never heard of him.

Flamingspirit · Aug 14, 2014

GodIsSalvation said:

It is as Isaiah states. The head is the ancient and honorable and the tail is the prophet that tells lies. When You take away "Christian" and "Muslim" from the people and you have only the people left.

VCO · Aug 14, 2014

Flamingspirit said:

Mountains and Horns are prophetic symbolism for Kingdoms. So when you have the Beast with 10 horns, you have a 10 nation confederacy under ONE ruler or King. Three are torn up by their roots, is more obvious than you think, because us older Christians have seen a NATION torn up by it's roots in our life time literally. It was East Germany. Now it is as if it had NEVER existed. I suspect the internal struggles in the European Union are only going to get worse when they try to appoint a single leader. Some will pull out, leaving 10, then three will merge with other nations erasing their borders, leaving the final form being a 7 nation confederacy under ONE ruler. Thus the Beast will reign over Seven Horns, or Seven Mountains, or Seven Nations, with seven rulers (heads) bowing to the Beast. NO, Hills do not represent Kingdoms, thus the Seven Hills of ROME are NOT the Seven Mountains of Rev. 17:9.

VCO · Aug 14, 2014

Timeline said:

NOW lets look at the ENTIRE context to see what or WHO the HEAD and TAIL really are:

Isaiah 9:12-16 (ESV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] The Syrians on the east and the Philistines on the west devour Israel with open mouth. For all this his anger has not turned away, and his hand is stretched out still.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] The people did not turn to him who struck them, nor inquire of the LORD of hosts.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] So the LORD cut off from Israel head and tail, palm branch and reed in one day—
[SUP]15 [/SUP] the elder and honored man is the head, and the prophet who teaches lies is the tail;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] for those who guide this people have been leading them astray, and those who are guided by them are swallowed up.

IT IS THE SYRIANS AND PHILISTINES WHO GOD WILL CUT OFF.

Flamingspirit · Aug 14, 2014

VCO said:

Mountains and Horns are prophetic symbolism for Kingdoms. So when you have the Beast with 10 horns, you have a 10 nation confederacy under ONE ruler or King. Three are torn up by their roots, is more obvious than you think, because us older Christians have seen a NATION torn up by it's roots in our life time literally. It was East Germany. Now it is as if it had NEVER existed. I suspect the internal struggles in the European Union are only going to get worse when they try to appoint a single leader. Some will pull out, leaving 10, then three will merge with other nations erasing their borders, leaving the final form being a 7 nation confederacy under ONE ruler. Thus the Beast will reign over Seven Horns, or Seven Mountains, or Seven Nations, with seven rulers (heads) bowing to the Beast. NO, Hills do not represent Kingdoms, thus the Seven Hills of ROME are NOT the Seven Mountains of Rev. 17:9.

Again, think bigger. This is 6000+ years of history here to cover in which the beast reigned.

Timeline · Aug 14, 2014

G4JC said:

Who's hating! I said that we are all sons of God, thru the blood of Jesus Christ. If there is hate in that statement, I don't get it.

But the way that the Church behaves, reminds me of Israel (of the OT). We lack love. We lack faith. We see a divided Kingdom where there should not be one.

A kingdom divided cannot stand...but the Kingdom is not divided! No matter how it appears.

Mark 3:24
If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.

1 Corinthians 12:15
If the foot says, “Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body.

Timeline · Aug 14, 2014

VCO said:

NOW lets look at the ENTIRE context to see what or WHO the HEAD and TAIL really are:

Isaiah 9:12-16 (ESV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] The Syrians on the east and the Philistines on the west devour Israel with open mouth. For all this his anger has not turned away, and his hand is stretched out still.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] The people did not turn to him who struck them, nor inquire of the LORD of hosts.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] So the LORD cut off from Israel head and tail, palm branch and reed in one day—
[SUP]15 [/SUP] the elder and honored man is the head, and the prophet who teaches lies is the tail;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] for those who guide this people have been leading them astray, and those who are guided by them are swallowed up.

IT IS THE SYRIANS AND PHILISTINES WHO GOD WILL CUT OFF.

So the Syrians are "the honorable man" and the Philistines are "the prophet who teaches falsehood"?

Hashe · Aug 14, 2014

VCO said:

NOW lets look at the ENTIRE context to see what or WHO the HEAD and TAIL really are:

Isaiah 9:12-16 (ESV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] The Syrians on the east and the Philistines on the west devour Israel with open mouth. For all this his anger has not turned away, and his hand is stretched out still.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] The people did not turn to him who struck them, nor inquire of the LORD of hosts.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] So the LORD cut off from Israel head and tail, palm branch and reed in one day—
[SUP]15 [/SUP] the elder and honored man is the head, and the prophet who teaches lies is the tail;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] for those who guide this people have been leading them astray, and those who are guided by them are swallowed up.

IT IS THE SYRIANS AND PHILISTINES WHO GOD WILL CUT OFF.

Great so the Philistines will rise again? Or will you just make up who you want to be the Philistines when something appropriate comes up?

john832 · Aug 14, 2014

joshuaspride said:

The mark of the Beast is not 666...

Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

The number 666 is an identifier that reveals the Beast, it is not his mark.

Bookends · Aug 14, 2014

G4JC said:

Elevating one people group over all others isn't being racist?

Mac4Yuma · Aug 15, 2014

One of the posters is correct but I will help support his post by adding my post.

The number 666 is branded on the Roman Empire

The number 666 is the number of the BEAST, (read Dan. 7:17, 18, 22 23 24 27) 666 must be the number of the Kingdom or Government or Empire as well as that of the King who founds or rules it.

Rev. was writen in Greek and John said to count the number of the BEAST, Roman or better LATEINOS signifies latin man. In Greek L is 30, A is 1, T is 300 and all the letters that John said to count add up to 666!

The number 666 is branded on the Roman Empire!

Then and now it adds up to be the Roman Catholic Church with its Pope and all the rest that goes with it. This church government or organization is the image of the beast, an ecclesiastical State or Government.

From this Godless church, the Mother Church, came the Harlots, the Protestant churches and God says to get out of it.

Rev. 17:5
And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Rev. 18:4
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Mac.

The_highwayman · Aug 15, 2014

Mac4Yuma said:

One of the posters is correct but I will help support his post by adding my post.

The number 666 is branded on the Roman Empire

The number 666 is the number of the BEAST, (read Dan. 7:17, 18, 22 23 24 27) 666 must be the number of the Kingdom or Government or Empire as well as that of the King who founds or rules it.

Rev. was writen in Greek and John said to count the number of the BEAST, Roman or better LATEINOS signifies latin man. In Greek L is 30, A is 1, T is 300 and all the letters that John said to count add up to 666!

The number 666 is branded on the Roman Empire!

Then and now it adds up to be the Roman Catholic Church with its Pope and all the rest that goes with it. This church government or organization is the image of the beast, an ecclesiastical State or Government.

From this Godless church, the Mother Church, came the Harlots, the Protestant churches and God says to get out of it.

Rev. 17:5
And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Rev. 18:4
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Mac.

The harlot is not the Catholic church, stop reading Jack Chick.

Mark of the Beast --- 666

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