Mary Mother of Jesus: Sinless?

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Was Mary the Mother of Jesus without sin?


  • Total voters
    40
Mar 14, 2011
66,541
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that makes no sense

you are drawing a wrong conclusion

adding to what someone says often changes the meaning or intent of what they said

this would be why she objects to your replies and no I am not taking sides here

I simply read and go by what a persons says and try not to change what they said

I said I follow the 10 commandments and truly, every Christian tries to do so

it is another thing to say that is what saves you, but I think we can all agree we try to follow the morality that God says we should follow otherwise, how are we following Christ?
Yeah it does if you understand the law
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
28,711
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It is written in the scriptures that whosoever commits sin is of their father the devil and they will do the lusts of their father because there is no truth in them. So is that their justification?

Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin nor are they servants to sin because the Son has set them free.

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 1 John 3:6

So excuse me if I don't buy into what you are saying....
I believe the justification would be more along the lines of our being perfected in Jesus, and all falling short. To reject those Biblical truths in preference to believing Mary was already perfect seems rather short sighted and anti-Scriptural. Do you promote sinless perfectionism then? Are you one of those people who claims you never sin because you have been born again? I see people make such claims. Of course such people when pressed do sometimes eventually admit they fall into sin at times. Getting the truth out of people who believe they are perfect can be like pulling teeth :giggle:

Jesus all but rebuked the woman who called Mary blessed because she bore Him.
He did not elevate Mary above others as you and some wish to do. I follow His example :)
 
Mar 14, 2011
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you cannot follow the 10 commandments at the very least?

that's a tad scary since that is the basis for being 'holy' or set aside as God commands.

I don't care about the 'some' people since we are not discussing the some people. focus on what is at hand and not diversionary tactics

and who cares about the Pharisees. God gave the commandments and God says be holy...set apart

we are set apart when we follow what pleases God and live for Christ. that will definitely set us apart from the world

the Pharisees have no part in this discussion as we are saying we are believing Christians...which, I take for granted, means we believe certain things and ACT on those things

in other words, a Christian is supposed to have and follow certain standards and since neither you nor I were saved yesterday, we KNOW what those things are and they do not save us, but since we ARE saved, we ACT like we are

that's plain enough in James
So it is scary that I can not be perfect?
well yeah it would be if I were under law because I would be condemned
I do not think you understand what I am saying
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
9,700
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Yeah it does if you understand the law
you think you understand, but you throw it up all the time as if it means 'put on the breaks'

the law IS love

get to my last response to you and maybe you will see what I am saying

I will also state I am not going to have a back and forth with you as in times past as it is fruitless and ends badly

the law is not in question here

UNDERSTANDING is in question and again, fulfilling the law which we know Jesus did, was an act of sacrificial love. when Jesus said he was summing up the law by stating we should love...he was saying obeying or living those 10 commandments would engender love complete...not speaking of sinlessness here or being sinless...try to stay with me....but would fulfill how love ACTS when presented with temptation

in other words, we do not kill, commit adultery, lust after what is not ours etc. and most of all do not worship idols or put things before God
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,541
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post above deals with this

God does not require you to obey in the sense of perfection and I think you know that but are dodging

you took to the law of love...oh for pity's sake :rolleyes:

can't you see that not committing adultery is love for your wife?

not stealing is love for the person from whom you do not steal?

not wanting what someone else has is love in that you are thankful they have what they do so you do not end up coveting?

not murdering is love?

and so on

and of course the greatest of all, love for our God because we put Him first and do not create idols

love, as God describes it, is ACTION...POSITIVE AFFIRMATIVE ACTION and it follows the 10 commandments very concisely

pretty sure Jesus knew that and summed up the law by saying 'love'...He didn't mean get butterflies in your stomach

the love God had/has and the love Jesus had/has, was sacrifice.

shall I go further and say no sacrifice equals no love?

I don't know anymore what people think Jesus meant by summing up the law with love

to sum up something, in this case the law, means to give a TOTAL of the foregoing figures...in this case the 10 C's...and provide the total which happens to be love

in fact, and this many will not like, OBEDIENCE is love in God's economy
Gal 3 those who are under the law are under a curse because cursed is everyone who does not obey all

Also. The purpose Of the law is to lead us to Christ

Your not going to become morally upright people by following the lawit was never made for that purpose

And no. I am not talking about salvation I am talking about sanctification.
don’t say you I ya when in reality you do not

That’s the problem with
Much of the church’s they think they are good people because they do not break some Commands when reality is they are not good people and in deep need of grace because in reality they are sinners when it comes to Gods standard
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,541
12,669
113
you think you understand, but you throw it up all the time as if it means 'put on the breaks'

the law IS love

get to my last response to you and maybe you will see what I am saying

I will also state I am not going to have a back and forth with you as in times past as it is fruitless and ends badly

the law is not in question here

UNDERSTANDING is in question and again, fulfilling the law which we know Jesus did, was an act of sacrificial love. when Jesus said he was summing up the law by stating we should love...he was saying obeying or living those 10 commandments would engender love complete...not speaking of sinlessness here or being sinless...try to stay with me....but would fulfill how love ACTS when presented with temptation

in other words, we do not kill, commit adultery, lust after what is not ours etc. and most of all do not worship idols or put things before God
the law is Not love if it was love, it (the law) could save us

love fulfills the law. It is not the law


You have it backwards

yes I keep bringing it up because people want to be enslaved to it and misinterpret it and judge everyone else who disagrees with them as loving sin
I am

Sick of it
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
9,700
4,252
113
Gal 3 those who are under the law are under a curse because cursed is everyone who does not obey all

Also. The purpose Of the law is to lead us to Christ

Your not going to become morally upright people by following the lawit was never made for that purpose

And no. I am not talking about salvation I am talking about sanctification.
don’t say you I ya when in reality you do not

That’s the problem with
Much of the church’s they think they are good people because they do not break some Commands when reality is they are not good people and in deep need of grace because in reality they are sinners when it comes to Gods standard

I give up

no really

insist on misapprehending what I said and now you bring up Galatians?

who said we are living after the flesh? HUH? only you

I don't brag, but I will make an exception in your case. I understand the law and why it was given

you, apparently are still tripping over it

done

read my other responses if you want, but I am done with discussing it with you because you have your answers lined up and ready to go after some 6000 pages of discussing it

tootles :giggle: :coffee:
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
9,700
4,252
113
aww just one more thing

the law is Not love if it was love, it (the law) could save us
so did God provide it out of hatred then? cause if it ain't love, it must be hate

God is love so decide

the law pointed to sin...and what separates us from God? WHAT? sin? oh yeah. sin

done
 

JamOn

Well-known member
Jun 10, 2019
3,584
1,415
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No more enmity than in Luke 2:49 when Jesus said Woman, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?”
What is your thoughts on why they didn’t understand what was being said?
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
13,261
1,258
113
post above deals with this

God does not require you to obey in the sense of perfection and I think you know that but are dodging

you took to the law of love...oh for pity's sake :rolleyes:

can't you see that not committing adultery is love for your wife?

not stealing is love for the person from whom you do not steal?

not wanting what someone else has is love in that you are thankful they have what they do so you do not end up coveting?

not murdering is love?

and so on

and of course the greatest of all, love for our God because we put Him first and do not create idols

love, as God describes it, is ACTION...POSITIVE AFFIRMATIVE ACTION and it follows the 10 commandments very concisely

pretty sure Jesus knew that and summed up the law by saying 'love'...He didn't mean get butterflies in your stomach

the love God had/has and the love Jesus had/has, was sacrifice.

shall I go further and say no sacrifice equals no love?

I don't know anymore what people think Jesus meant by summing up the law with love

to sum up something, in this case the law, means to give a TOTAL of the foregoing figures...in this case the 10 C's...and provide the total which happens to be love

in fact, and this many will not like, OBEDIENCE is love in God's economy
Hellow anybody home?

The law did not become effective after it was written. It spoke of the existing law not a new one.

Having not the written law, they are a law unto themselves: Which shows the work of the law a labor of God's love written in their hearts.

Romans 2:14-16 King James Version (KJV) For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
13,261
1,258
113
aww just one more thing



so did God provide it out of hatred then? cause if it ain't love, it must be hate

God is love so decide

the law pointed to sin...and what separates us from God? WHAT? sin? oh yeah. sin

done
Love is to bless. Hate is to not bless.
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,541
12,669
113
I give up

no really

insist on misapprehending what I said and now you bring up Galatians?

who said we are living after the flesh? HUH? only you

I don't brag, but I will make an exception in your case. I understand the law and why it was given

you, apparently are still tripping over it

done

read my other responses if you want, but I am done with discussing it with you because you have your answers lined up and ready to go after some 6000 pages of discussing it

tootles :giggle::coffee:
1. you responded to what I said., This you need to follow my line of reasoning since you continue to say I was wrong. As I said, You have probably misunderstood me
2. I have tried to explain to you what I was talking about, hence why I mentioned galations it was in context of MY CONVERSATION which you continue to say is in error
3. since you responded to me. I would hope you tried to understand what I was saying,
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,541
12,669
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aww just one more thing



so did God provide it out of hatred then? cause if it ain't love, it must be hate

God is love so decide

the law pointed to sin...and what separates us from God? WHAT? sin? oh yeah. sin

done
gal 3, 19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.


21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, [f]kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our [g]tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

forgive me, but I would rather trust what paul said the law was given for.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,249
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www.christiancourier.com
Yes, to me this is a picture of God's grace. I'm sure that Mary loved God but she also sinned. Much like how the Holy Spirit indwells in the believer in Jesus is also an act of grace for we all sin and fall short of God's glory( see Romans 3:23)
Again, for Mary to still be a sinner when God's Holy Spirit covered her, God would have to take up "habitation" in a dinner. And say so in His own words.
 

UnoiAmarah

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2017
338
57
28
Jesus all but rebuked the woman who called Mary blessed because she bore Him.
Is this written in scripture or is this someone's copyrighted opinion.

He did not elevate Mary above others as you and some wish to do. I follow His example :)
So the believer and the devils are are the same level? So are you doing the will of God, or is that not one of his examples?

Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
Luke 22:42

So have you ever read Mark 3:35?
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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If you think you obey the ten commands, by that admission, you must be sinless

your the one demanding you can obey the commands, I am just giving you gods requirement

you May think you can water down the law so you can feel better about yourself that does; not mean God will ne obligated to accept your watered down version.
My dear soul, you are unable to even give me a cordial and accurate response to my actual post(s).
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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Ok here is a snip from the Catholic encyclopedia concerning the worship of Mary and the saints .
  • As the Blessed Virgin has a separate and absolutely supereminent rank among the saints, the worship paid to her is called hyperdulia (for the meaning and history of these terms see Suicer, Thesaurus ecclesiasticus, 1728). They refer to it as hyperdulia they even call it a form of worship . They do say it’s one of the lowers forms , yet it is worship in their own words.
  • Blessings
  • Bill
Catholics do not worship anyone but God(Link). "Catholics adore God but we honor his saints." "Worship is to be given only to God."

Catholic Encyclopedia: Dulia
Catholic Encyclopedia:The Blessed Virgin Mary
 
Mar 14, 2011
66,541
12,669
113
My dear soul, you are unable to even give me a cordial and accurate response to my actual post(s).
That’s the problem

ypur posts don’t line up with the word

i a, just interpreting them through gods word and trying to show you what you are actually saying
 
Feb 1, 2020
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ONLY CHRIST IS GOD AND SINLESS....SO THEREFORE CATHOLICISM IS FALSE...FOR 3 MISTAKES IN THE BIBLE MARY DID...AND SHE HAD SONS AND DAUGHTERS
If we were saved by correct understanding we would all be shallow and not knowing the Love of God. God the Holy Spirit gave me a Catholic wife when I had given up on her, because of 2 year awaiting to see her. 10 days aftfer I gave up He said: You have a wife waiting for you. I marvel at how people that are thought wrong can be more mature in Love but we are all thought wrong. Going onto perfection is only possible by the leading of the Holy Spirit, now more welcomed among the Catholics likely having a geather need.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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www.christiancourier.com
Is this written in scripture or is this someone's copyrighted opinion.



So the believer and the devils are are the same level? So are you doing the will of God, or is that not one of his examples?

Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
Luke 22:42

So have you ever read Mark 3:35?
I believe the justification would be more along the lines of our being perfected in Jesus, and all falling short. To reject those Biblical truths in preference to believing Mary was already perfect seems rather short sighted and anti-Scriptural. Do you promote sinless perfectionism then? Are you one of those people who claims you never sin because you have been born again? I see people make such claims. Of course such people when pressed do sometimes eventually admit they fall into sin at times. Getting the truth out of people who believe they are perfect can be like pulling teeth :giggle:

Jesus all but rebuked the woman who called Mary blessed because she bore Him.
No, actually He didn't rebuke her. He did not reprimand her, nor did he sharply criticize the woman. (Those are the definition as pertained to "rebuke". To reprimand or criticize sharply) Rather in truth what Jesus did is found in the Book of Luke chapter 11.26Then it goes and brings seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and dwell there. And the final plight of that man is worse than the first.” 27As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and blessed are the breasts that nursed You.” 28But He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”…

He did not elevate Mary above others as you and some wish to do. I follow His example :)
No, you don't. Jesus respected His mother.
Even God's angel Gabriel referred to Mary as, favored one. God knew her soul magnified the Lord.

Those who insist Mary was still a sinner, not in God's grace, forgiven her sins, if that needs to be clarified, when the Holy Spirit begat Himself as Emmanuel in her womb have yet to prove their claim with scripture.
That Holy Spirit God indwells those dead in their sin.
God indwells those who are reborn through His grace. The world was highly favored by God and that's why through His free irrevocable grace He sent His only begotten son, begotten is key there, so that whomever would believe in Emmanuel would be saved and have immortal life.
Odd that there are those who's doctrine insists God would indwell a woman dead in her sin so as to bring the Savior from sin into the world. When they are unable to dismiss what Favored means in Luke 1. It means anything but forgiven of her sins through God's grace, which is another translation in the Greek of, Favored.