Mary the mother of my Lord (Heresy?)

[Rock022]

More important than this is what Christ did. Holding Mary up takes away fromthe work of her son. In reality, if she knew what you all did to her, what you called her, and how you held her up. I guarantee she would feel saddened by the fact you put so much emphasis on her, which you should be putting on her son.

You seem to misunderstand what we do. here is the prayer you so think makes Her bigger than God. The word Pray only means to ASK.

Hail Mary, the Lord is with thee [Luke 1:28]
Blessed art thou amongst woman [Luke 1:42]
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb Jesus [Luke 1:42]

Holy Mary mother of God [Truth]
Pray for us sinners [Ask her to pray like I ask you or any other]
Now and at the our of our death [Pray for us with out ceasing 1 Thessalonians 5:17]
Amen.

And the Old Testament foreshadows the New Testament
and here are some examples

Song of Solomon 6:
9 My dove, my perfect one, is the only one,
the darling of her mother,
flawless to her that bore her.
The maidens saw her and called her happy;
the queens and concubines also, and they praised her.
10 “Who is this that looks forth like the dawn,
fair as the moon, bright as the sun,
terrible as an army with banners?”

And here in the New testament

Revelations 12
1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Matthew 7
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

In Matthew we understand that Mary had to be Sinless and Holy. If she was sinful would she brought good fruit?

Are you understanding now?

 

[peterT]

No, it is you who does not get it.

He is not blessing them, he is protecting them so they have a chance to repent !

Where does it say that?

No, it is you who does not get it.

He is not blessing them, he is protecting them so they have a chance to repent (which is says they will. ot Scripture calls this the time of jacobs trouble, Go duses this to cause them to seek him, and when they do, he opens their eyes and they repent. This is why he protects them. so prophesy can be fulfilled. NOT TO BLESS THEM.

they are only protected for 3.5 years. the beast is given power for 3.5 years.. Your interpretation has them being the old church, and her offspring the church of the last days, he protects them IN THE LAST DAYS.. this you CANT BE RIGHT.. because it is these same last day that while she is protected. he is given authority to go after the church.

It says so in Dan 7. And it says so in Rev 12 and 13.

open your eyes man!

Feeding and protecting them for 3 ½ years, you say is not being blessed by God??

You are reading too many of man’s books bro, and you should put away the books for a spell and just read your bible the pour water of the word.

God doesn’t Feeding and protecting Jews of the flesh above Christians, for we are his people and the sheep of his pasture.

 

[Geometar]

Some people taking Bible and read it every day and do some prayers,but truth never reveal to them.That is just normal thing and then they start hearing some voices and they think they r from God.Some spirit talk to them,but as we can see it easely in that spirit there r nothing holy.
All those r normal things that happens every day,year and century.That was a case in Early Church also.

 

[quickfire]

For you all are sons of the light and sons of the day.

 

[RickShafer]

Some people taking Bible and read it every day and do some prayers,but truth never reveal to them.That is just normal thing and then they start hearing some voices and they think they r from God.Some spirit talk to them,but as we can see it easely in that spirit there r nothing holy.
All those r normal things that happens every day,year and century.That was a case in Early Church also.

By the same token, some read the legislates of the prelates of their church and
consider it abject truth.
Which camp would you rather be in?
Those that read the bible or those that hold to the traditions of their church?

 

[Geometar]

By the same token, some read the legislates of the prelates of their church and
consider it abject truth.
Which camp would you rather be in?
Those that read the bible or those that hold to the traditions of their church?

With holy fathers who read the Bible and left writings in Church.

 

[RickShafer]

I rather have the writings of the prophets and apostles themselves.
That is the word I'd rather go by.
Namely the Bible.

 

[Geometar]

It is funny to have discus on this level...

 

[RickShafer]

I agree.
It's totally hilarious.
Why can't you just admit the idea of Mary as the queen of heaven was brought in
by the babylonian mystery religions to take the place of Astarta(the Angel of their wall). The original 'Queen of Heaven' was Isis.
Why can't you see that the very symbol of the "stauron"-(pole) was changed to a 't' to commemorate Tammuz by the same chaldean high priests
who 'converted' to christianity after it was made the official religion of the Roman Empire by the emperor Theodosius I in the year 380 A.D.?

 

[quickfire]

Fear not thy an do, it is something He does.

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

 

[Rock022]

I agree.
It's totally hilarious.
Why can't you just admit the idea of Mary as the queen of heaven was brought in
by the babylonian mystery religions to take the place of Astarta(the Angel of their wall). The original 'Queen of Heaven' was Isis.
Why can't you see that the very symbol of the "stauron"-(pole) was changed to a 't' to commemorate Tammuz by the same chaldean high priests
who 'converted' to christianity after it was made the official religion of the Roman Empire by the emperor Theodosius I in the year 380 A.D.?

This statement is dangerous! It is like me telling you that all religions are the same, that they believe in something supernatural. I recommend to study this teachings from the original source. Study the councils of the church and how they came to be. Would you go to an atheist to learn about God? Then why study teachings from the people who object? Do you know what the early christians did? Those who where taught by the apostles! I think that they would be a guide for us today.

 

[Geometar]

Relax Rock,they have no idea what we speaking about here...For me personally they aren't Christians,because they denie Christianity and holy fathers of the Church.
Almost all things they twist,use Bible as literal book,use quotes out of context...
I can understand that they don't like Pope of Rome( i don't have some great opinion of him),but to denie holy fathers is like if pupils denie professor of math.
All that have deep roots Rick,we know them very well.On East they disappeared,but what happened to the West?West was indeed very clean from heresies of Early Church.All of them came from East.What is this now?

 

[quickfire]

Relax Rock,they have no idea what we speaking about here...For me personally they aren't Christians,because they deny Christianity and holy fathers of the Church.
Almost all things they twist,use Bible as literal book,use quotes out of context...
I can understand that they don't like Pope of Rome( i don't have some great opinion of him),but to deny holy fathers is like if pupils deny professor of math.
All that have deep roots Rick,we know them very well.On East they disappeared,but what happened to the West?West was indeed very clean from heresies of Early Church.All of them came from East.What is this now?

ps i corrected some spelling mistakes for you

enough is enough where is the love here

this all getting to much now there is a lot of bad talk here and where suppose to turn the other cheek when there is trouble and help each other regardless of our faith .

You are all sons of the light and sons of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness Thessalonians 5:5

any more of of this talk and hatred then i will not try to help you anymore to stay in this beautiful place of good christian people who are also trying to help you stay.

turn the other cheek its easy clench your fist for 1 minute and gently unclench and let go of what ever is bothering you .


You are all sons of the light and sons of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness Thessalonians 5:5

 

[Trey01]

Mary really all attention should be on Christ Christ Christ for it was he who said who is my mother and who is my brother,please focus on the gospels Was it not god who said "this is my son whom I am well pleased"Focus on Christ Please"

 

[Katy-follower]

With holy fathers who read the Bible and left writings in Church.

Galatians 1:8-10: "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ"

Even if an angel appears in the sky with a message, we are to ignore them as there's only one gospel. Paul said even to not believe him if he preached in opposition to the gospel. Likewise, today we are to test the spirits to see if they are from God.

There are many churches out there teaching heresies and many people don't check these things. Never trust angels that appear, let alone church fathers that leave messages behind. The bible is complete, no one need add anything to it.

Satan is the deceiver and walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.

 

[Rock022]

Galatians 1:8-10: "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ"

Even if an angel appears in the sky with a message, we are to ignore them as there's only one gospel. Paul said even to not believe him if he preached in opposition to the gospel. Likewise, today we are to test the spirits to see if they are from God.

There are many churches out there teaching heresies and many people don't check these things. Never trust angels that appear, let alone church fathers that leave messages behind. The bible is complete, no one need add anything to it.

Satan is the deceiver and walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.

Do you think this writings are opposing the word of the good news? Did you studied them?

 

[Geometar]

Galatians 1:8-10: "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ"

Even if an angel appears in the sky with a message, we are to ignore them as there's only one gospel. Paul said even to not believe him if he preached in opposition to the gospel. Likewise, today we are to test the spirits to see if they are from God.

There are many churches out there teaching heresies and many people don't check these things. Never trust angels that appear, let alone church fathers that leave messages behind. The bible is complete, no one need add anything to it.

Satan is the deceiver and walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.

As i said,they have no idea what we speaking about here...But they keep talking what they learn...

 

[quickfire]

.

Love is a key motive for our obedience to our Lord’s commands (John 14:15, 21, 23, 24; 15:10; 21:15-17; 1 John 5:2; 2 John 1:16).

 

[superdave5221]

Do you think this writings are opposing the word of the good news? Did you studied them?

Why don't you study them?

The study of the writings of the early Church Fathers is not without value. But Paul and the other apostles made it clear that Satan would send false teachers to draw Christians away from the Church. Paul's teaching stated that the best way to avoid this deception was close adherence to the Word of God.

And so, the Scriptures must be the standard by which all men's words are judged and tested.

However, I can see one value right away from YOU studying the church father’s writings. At least then you might discontinue to make ridiculous statements like this:

Other questions raised are how did people get saved in the past if the bible was not around until close to the 400AC, and it was not mass produced until recent in history.

A statement that you made in the thread: “Scripture Only”.

For in such a study you would find that:
1. In the letter of Clement to the church, written 90-100 A.D. references are made to many of the N.T. books. These include passages from the Gospels, Romans, First and Second Corinthians, Ephesians, Hebrews, Titus, James, First Peter, and Revelation.
2. Eusebius quotes Papias as saying that John the Presbyter taught that Mark became Peter’s interpreter and that he wrote accurately what Peter remembered of the things said and done by Christ.
3. There are 20 specifically mentioned books on the Muratorian Fragment, our oldest know listing (175 A.D.) and others are implied.
4. Origen lists all 27 books of our current N.T. in 250 A.D.

And so, a proper study of the Church Fathers would reveal that the Roman Catholic Church did not give us our bible. All they did was to canonize it, or to make it official in their own eyes. All of the books were accepted on their own merit well before the Roman Church made it official in their own words and tradition.

Many of the early church fathers fought against the growing heresies which were beginning to take root. Each local congregation was autonomous, answering only to Jesus Christ as the head of the Church. Each congregation elected elders, who governed the local church according to the available Scriptures, which included the O.T. canon, the Gospels, and the growing letters of Paul, Peter, and James. This autonomous structure in the early church made it possible to isolate and eradicate heretical beliefs.

It is interesting that when Paul traveled to Jerusalem for the conference concerning the Judaizers, James was the one who was evidently the lead elder in the Jerusalem church, not Peter. I guess he didn't get the memo that the church was to be built on Peter?

In any event, if you really study the history of the church, you will see the gradual falling away at first, then rapidly after 312, as the man made power structure is built up, power as we know always corrupts.

All in all however, I am convinced that God will look at people's hearts, and not an erroneous doctrine, when judging on the last day. Therefore, I do believe that there will be a good many Roman Catholics in heaven. But it will be the blood of Jesus Christ, and the authority of the Word of God that will get them there, not their faith in the traditions of man, that hinders, rather than aids them, in their efforts.

 

[kenisyes]

Most of us read books other than the Bible anyway, like devotionals, biographies, etc., and we listen to Christian TV and teachings on Internet. If we are going to read non-inspired books about God, wouldn't the best choice be by those authors who were sons and grandsons of friends of Jesus and the apostles?