Mary the mother of my Lord (Heresy?)
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Ark of the New Covenant
In fact, St. Elizabeth says to Mary:
Thus, when Elizabeth calls Mary the “mother of my Lord”, in reference to David’s words, she is calling Mary the “Mother of YHWH”. Thus, it is absolutely proper to call Mary the Mother of God!
Furthermore, Elizabeth equates the Ark of the Covenant with the Blessed Virgin Mary. As the Old Ark was the dwelling place of God in the days of the Old Covenant, so the New Ark, the Virgin Mary, is the dwelling place of God the Word in our days, the days of the New Covenant. Let us look at some additional biblical passages which demonstrate her status as Ark of the New Covenant.
Listen to what happens when the Ark of the Covenant is brought before David:
After David dances before the Ark of the Covenant, the ark remains three months:
In addition, we hear of Mary as the Ark of the New Covenant in the Revelation of John:
We see, therefore, that the Ark of the New Covenant is identified clearly as the Virgin Mary in the Apocalypse of John. Some Protestants, however, like to argue that the Woman is not Mary, but Israel, basing their exegesis here:
Likewise, in Revelation 12, there are portions where John refers to Mary, portions where he refers to Eve, portions where he refers to the Church, and portions where he refers to Israel. Mostly, however, he refers to all four. So, with that said, let us look at the further implications of Revelation 12.
In fact, St. Elizabeth says to Mary:
And why is this granted to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me? (Luke 1:43)
The question before us is whether the “my Lord” here necessarily refers to the divine nature of Jesus Christ. Could it simply refer to the human nature? This leads directly into the discussion of Mary as the “Ark of the New Covenant”. When Elizabeth asks how it is that the mother of the Lord should come to her, she is directly alluding to these words spoken by the Prophet King DavidAnd David was afraid of the Lord that day, and he said, "How can the ark of the Lord come to me?" (2 Samuel 6:9)
Ancient Jews memorized the Hebrew Bible. Similarities in wording would jump out at them. It is clear: when St. Elizabeth asks how the mother of the Lord should come to her, she is directly alluding to the Prophet’s words. It is important to note that in the Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Bible, YHWH would be replaced by “the Lord”Thus, when Elizabeth calls Mary the “mother of my Lord”, in reference to David’s words, she is calling Mary the “Mother of YHWH”. Thus, it is absolutely proper to call Mary the Mother of God!
Furthermore, Elizabeth equates the Ark of the Covenant with the Blessed Virgin Mary. As the Old Ark was the dwelling place of God in the days of the Old Covenant, so the New Ark, the Virgin Mary, is the dwelling place of God the Word in our days, the days of the New Covenant. Let us look at some additional biblical passages which demonstrate her status as Ark of the New Covenant.
Then the cloud covered the tent of meeting, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle. (Exodus 40:34)
The power of the Lord comes over the Ark of the Covenant. Similarly:And the angel answered her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy--the Son of God. (Luke 1:35)
The power of the Most High God overshadows the Blessed Virgin, just as it overshadowed the Ark of the Covenant.Listen to what happens when the Ark of the Covenant is brought before David:
And David danced before the Lord with all his might. And David was wearing a linen ephod. (2 Samuel 6:14)
This linen ephod is a priestly vestment. Likewise, John the Baptist is part of the priestly line of Aaron, and just as David danced when he saw the Ark of the Covenant, so does John the Baptist:And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the baby leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. (Luke 1:41)
The child, John the Baptist leaps in her womb at hearing the Ark of the Covenant.After David dances before the Ark of the Covenant, the ark remains three months:
And the ark of the Lord remained in the house of Obed-edom the Gittite three months, and the Lord blessed Obed-edom and all his household. (2 Samuel 6:11)
And after John the Baptist dances at hearing Mary, she remains three months:And Mary remained with her about three months and returned to her home. (Luke 1:56)
Is it possible that all of this is a coincidence? As passage after passage is piled up, it becomes near impossible that it is. The evidence is clear that Luke is presenting Mary as the Ark of the New Covenant.In addition, we hear of Mary as the Ark of the New Covenant in the Revelation of John:
Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail. (Revelation 11:19)
We see the Heavenly Temple, and we see the Ark of the Covenant. Would the Ark of the Old Covenant be of any significance? No. The Old Covenant is done away with, and the glory of God has left it's ark. But the New Covenant of Grace is in effect, and its Ark is something glorious. What is this Ark? St. John tells us in the very next passage:And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. (Revelation 12:1)
Who is this woman?She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne. (Revelation 12:5)
And who rules the nations with a rod of iron? God the Word, Jesus Christ.He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses. From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. (Revelation 19:13-15)
So, the woman of Revelation 12 is the mother of Jesus Christ. Who is Christ’s mother? It is, of course, the Blessed Virgin Mary.We see, therefore, that the Ark of the New Covenant is identified clearly as the Virgin Mary in the Apocalypse of John. Some Protestants, however, like to argue that the Woman is not Mary, but Israel, basing their exegesis here:
Then he dreamed another dream and told it to his brothers and said, "Behold, I have dreamed another dream. Behold, the sun, the moon, and eleven stars were bowing down to me." (Genesis 37:9)
This refers to Israel. So, is Israel a referent in John’s prophecy? Yes! In biblical prophecy it is not uncommon for a prophecy to have multiple referents. Let me give you an example from the famous prophecy of Isaiah:Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. (Isaiah 7:14)
All Christians know that this is ultimately fulfilled in Jesus Christ. However, there is a temporary fulfillment, where an almah who is not a virgin gives birth to a child who is named Immanuel as a sign that God is with them.and it will sweep on into Judah, it will overflow and pass on, reaching even to the neck, and its outspread wings will fill the breadth of your land, O Immanuel." (Isaiah 8:8)
There are some parts where Isaiah refers to both referents, and some parts where he refers to only one. Consider this passage:For before the boy knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land whose two kings you dread will be deserted. (Isaiah 7:16)
Was there ever a time when the Lord Jesus Christ did not know good and evil? Never. Thus, verse sixteen refers only to the first referent, and not the messianic referent.Likewise, in Revelation 12, there are portions where John refers to Mary, portions where he refers to Eve, portions where he refers to the Church, and portions where he refers to Israel. Mostly, however, he refers to all four. So, with that said, let us look at the further implications of Revelation 12.
Kings 20.4 and the king answered as you say my Lord.
Lol sorry i couldnt resist .
Very good reading geo im just glad that im understanding it better
And for the record i Said and if she was without sin .
Big difference to saying she was
Lol sorry i couldnt resist .
Very good reading geo im just glad that im understanding it better
And for the record i Said and if she was without sin .
Big difference to saying she was
Quick,be sure that i will always post wisdom here.Holy Fathers were not lazy and didnt spent their lifes by lying on silk mattresses,but in the caves in their cells.By constantly reading of the Bible,prayers and fast.That is how we became as Angels and wisdom of God comes to us.That is what teaching us the Bible and Church of Christ.
Indeed,it is difference.I will post an response on Imaculate conception.
Orthodox view on Immaculate Conception
The Doctrine of the Immaculate Conception of the Mother of God was first promulgated as a dogma of the Roman Catholic Church in the year 1854, by Pope Pius IX. The official statement of it, is as follow:
"The doctrine which declares that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, from the first instant of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, was the Saviour of the human race, was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore must be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful of the Roman Catholic Church."
The declaration of this doctrine to be a dogma of the Western Catholic Church marked the end of a period of often bitter controversy between its adherents and those who denied it, a controversy that involved some of the most well known Western Catholic theologians.
Throughout the Eastern part of the Roman empire, from as far back as the fifth century, a feast day was observed on 9th December entitled The Conception of Saint Anna. This feast day celebrated the events surrounding the conception of the Mother of God by Saint Anna in her and her husband Joachim's old age, as set forth in the apocryphal Protoevangelion of James.
There was no attempt on the part of the hymn writers of the early church to suggest that there was any other miracle than the conception in the face of prolonged sterility.
This feast day soon became popular with Western Christians, and by the 8th century was celebrated on 8th December. Soon after, some western churchmen began teaching that Mary, from the moment of her conception, was "miraculously innocent" of the guilt of original sin.
This teaching was bitterly opposed by such churchmen as the great Cistercian abbot Bernard of Clairvaux, and the great Dominican Doctor of the Western Church Thomas Aquinas. Eventually however, in 1854, those who accepted the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception gained the attention of the Pope, who effectively ended all the controversy about it by officially promulgating it as an official teaching of the Western Catholic Church.
In order to understand the position of the Orthodox Church on this teaching we must begin with understanding the Orthodox concept of original sin, as opposed to that which prevails in the Western Catholic Church.
The Western Catholic Church's teaching of original sin, is based in part on the writings of Saint Augustine, which states that each human being at the moment of conception shares in the guilt of Adam's sin of disobedience.
This was based on Saint Augustine's slightly flawed Latin translation of Romans 5:12. Augustine did not read Greek with any great proficiency. Augustine read it as saying "so death spread to all men in whom (Adam) all men sinned", rather than "so death spread to all men because all men sinned", which is how the original Greek reads.
It is this teaching that led Western Catholic thinkers to create a place called "Limbo" (from the Latin word limbus, "border" or "hem"), meaning on the border of heaven. They said this is where the souls of unbaptised infants could find refuge, since though not guilty of any personal sin, they still had the guilt of original sin on their souls, and so could not enter heaven proper.
In the medieval Western Catholic Church, original sin was believed to be transmitted in a physical sense through conception. It thus became important to many that Mary be preserved from this taint. Hence the creation in the ninth century of the doctrine of the immaculate conception.
The Orthodox Church has kept alive the original understanding of the early Church as regards "original sin." The early Church did not understand "original sin" as having anything to do with transmitted guilt but with transmitted mortality. Because Adam sinned, all humanity shares not in his guilt but in the same punishment.
We are tempted by sin and we become guilty of it through committing our own personal sins. We therefore suffer and we die. This is the orthodox understanding of original sin. It is not something that we are guilty of personally, but an action whose consequences have affected our lives as humans. As humans we sin, and our own guilt is because of our own personal sin.
In the light of this, the Western Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is redundant.
In Orthodox eyes, there is simply no original guilt for Mary to be made innocent of. Which is also why we have no Limbo for infants who die unbaptised, which was also at one time the usual teaching of the Western Catholic Church.
Often those advocating the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, have sought to discover it in Orthodox writers of the Middle Ages or in Orthodox hymns.
Orthodox writers who often refer to Mary as having been "prepared," and "sanctified," and who hail her as the "immaculate one," are thinking in the context of the Orthodox view of original sin, not the Western. None of these writers put forth a claim that Mary was immortal – which necessarily follows for those who accept the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception. It does not fit in the context of the Orthodox view of original sin.
Many of these theologians held to a view that by special grace the Mother of God did not commit any personal sins. Others asserted that Mary was sanctified through her response to Archangel Gabriel at the annunciation, "Behold I am the handmaid of the Lord. Let it be done to me according to your word" (Luke 1:38).
Taken at face value, the Western doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is seen by the Orthodox as separating the Mother of God from the rest of the human race. If true, this would have made it impossible for Christ to become truly man, because Mary would therefore not be subject to the same conditions of humanity as those for whom Christ had become incarnate in order to save. Mary is human, and through her, God became fully human as well.
During this Advent season, the Orthodox Church frequently remembers the Virgin Mary as a gift of humanity to God, through whom God gave Himself back to humanity. One of our Christmas hymns asks "What shall we offer You, Christ, You Who for our sakes appeared on earth as a man? Every creature which You have made offers You thanks.....… We offer You a Virgin Mother. Pre-eternal God, have mercy on us."
The Doctrine of the Immaculate Conception of the Mother of God was first promulgated as a dogma of the Roman Catholic Church in the year 1854, by Pope Pius IX. The official statement of it, is as follow:
"The doctrine which declares that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, from the first instant of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege of Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, was the Saviour of the human race, was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore must be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful of the Roman Catholic Church."
The declaration of this doctrine to be a dogma of the Western Catholic Church marked the end of a period of often bitter controversy between its adherents and those who denied it, a controversy that involved some of the most well known Western Catholic theologians.
Throughout the Eastern part of the Roman empire, from as far back as the fifth century, a feast day was observed on 9th December entitled The Conception of Saint Anna. This feast day celebrated the events surrounding the conception of the Mother of God by Saint Anna in her and her husband Joachim's old age, as set forth in the apocryphal Protoevangelion of James.
There was no attempt on the part of the hymn writers of the early church to suggest that there was any other miracle than the conception in the face of prolonged sterility.
This feast day soon became popular with Western Christians, and by the 8th century was celebrated on 8th December. Soon after, some western churchmen began teaching that Mary, from the moment of her conception, was "miraculously innocent" of the guilt of original sin.
This teaching was bitterly opposed by such churchmen as the great Cistercian abbot Bernard of Clairvaux, and the great Dominican Doctor of the Western Church Thomas Aquinas. Eventually however, in 1854, those who accepted the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception gained the attention of the Pope, who effectively ended all the controversy about it by officially promulgating it as an official teaching of the Western Catholic Church.
In order to understand the position of the Orthodox Church on this teaching we must begin with understanding the Orthodox concept of original sin, as opposed to that which prevails in the Western Catholic Church.
The Western Catholic Church's teaching of original sin, is based in part on the writings of Saint Augustine, which states that each human being at the moment of conception shares in the guilt of Adam's sin of disobedience.
This was based on Saint Augustine's slightly flawed Latin translation of Romans 5:12. Augustine did not read Greek with any great proficiency. Augustine read it as saying "so death spread to all men in whom (Adam) all men sinned", rather than "so death spread to all men because all men sinned", which is how the original Greek reads.
It is this teaching that led Western Catholic thinkers to create a place called "Limbo" (from the Latin word limbus, "border" or "hem"), meaning on the border of heaven. They said this is where the souls of unbaptised infants could find refuge, since though not guilty of any personal sin, they still had the guilt of original sin on their souls, and so could not enter heaven proper.
In the medieval Western Catholic Church, original sin was believed to be transmitted in a physical sense through conception. It thus became important to many that Mary be preserved from this taint. Hence the creation in the ninth century of the doctrine of the immaculate conception.
The Orthodox Church has kept alive the original understanding of the early Church as regards "original sin." The early Church did not understand "original sin" as having anything to do with transmitted guilt but with transmitted mortality. Because Adam sinned, all humanity shares not in his guilt but in the same punishment.
We are tempted by sin and we become guilty of it through committing our own personal sins. We therefore suffer and we die. This is the orthodox understanding of original sin. It is not something that we are guilty of personally, but an action whose consequences have affected our lives as humans. As humans we sin, and our own guilt is because of our own personal sin.
In the light of this, the Western Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is redundant.
In Orthodox eyes, there is simply no original guilt for Mary to be made innocent of. Which is also why we have no Limbo for infants who die unbaptised, which was also at one time the usual teaching of the Western Catholic Church.
Often those advocating the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, have sought to discover it in Orthodox writers of the Middle Ages or in Orthodox hymns.
Orthodox writers who often refer to Mary as having been "prepared," and "sanctified," and who hail her as the "immaculate one," are thinking in the context of the Orthodox view of original sin, not the Western. None of these writers put forth a claim that Mary was immortal – which necessarily follows for those who accept the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception. It does not fit in the context of the Orthodox view of original sin.
Many of these theologians held to a view that by special grace the Mother of God did not commit any personal sins. Others asserted that Mary was sanctified through her response to Archangel Gabriel at the annunciation, "Behold I am the handmaid of the Lord. Let it be done to me according to your word" (Luke 1:38).
Taken at face value, the Western doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is seen by the Orthodox as separating the Mother of God from the rest of the human race. If true, this would have made it impossible for Christ to become truly man, because Mary would therefore not be subject to the same conditions of humanity as those for whom Christ had become incarnate in order to save. Mary is human, and through her, God became fully human as well.
During this Advent season, the Orthodox Church frequently remembers the Virgin Mary as a gift of humanity to God, through whom God gave Himself back to humanity. One of our Christmas hymns asks "What shall we offer You, Christ, You Who for our sakes appeared on earth as a man? Every creature which You have made offers You thanks.....… We offer You a Virgin Mother. Pre-eternal God, have mercy on us."
Q
So in a nut Shell the two catholic churches are devided because one favours the imaculate conception more that the other.
At the moment though i can not agree with you geo as i need to spend more time reading both sides.
A few questions and just 1 sentence answers please.
Do both orthodox and rc believe mary was the new eve.
Do both orthodox and rc believe mary is the new ark .
After her conception of the holy one is it possible she could have been free of sin if the orthodox feel she was not before her conception.
At the moment though i can not agree with you geo as i need to spend more time reading both sides.
A few questions and just 1 sentence answers please.
Do both orthodox and rc believe mary was the new eve.
Do both orthodox and rc believe mary is the new ark .
After her conception of the holy one is it possible she could have been free of sin if the orthodox feel she was not before her conception.
Q
Geo i just read this about your eastern orthodoxy religion.
Eastern Orthodoxy, believes that the Virgin Mary was capable of sinning, but she successfully resisted sin her whole life.
Só geo a couple of questions spring to mind .
1 what are your views on this .
2 how is it possible without some sought of devine intervention.
3 if this was the case would it not make sense on how mary was able to survive the holy of holies
4 yes sure i beleive in a child being with out sin because they dont know right from wrong.
5 what age did mary conceive jesus
Or what age was the seed planted
Eastern Orthodoxy, believes that the Virgin Mary was capable of sinning, but she successfully resisted sin her whole life.
Só geo a couple of questions spring to mind .
1 what are your views on this .
2 how is it possible without some sought of devine intervention.
3 if this was the case would it not make sense on how mary was able to survive the holy of holies
4 yes sure i beleive in a child being with out sin because they dont know right from wrong.
5 what age did mary conceive jesus
Or what age was the seed planted
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E
1. Talk about a stretch? Did the authors of the NT say that Elizabeth was quoting the OT prophet? This is just one persons interpretation. What about not listening to men? Men state this is a quote. God did not.
2. Elizabeth knew that Mary would give birth to the messiah. She was told this. Thus it is no stretch to understand Elizabeth calling mary the mother of her Lord (messiah) It in no way says Elizabeth Understood the god of the universe was inside mary's womb at this time. Again this is just words of men with no biblical proof or fact.
3. Again, God was not in the ark. he was ABOVE IT. The only way Mary could be equated with the ark is that God would be inside the ark. This is not true. Thus again. Mary being the new ark is again the words of men. with no scriptural proof or backing
Notice the highlighted parts above. The glory of God filled the tabernacle. I twas not inside the ark Also it was over the ark. not inside the ark. Again, It takes just a small amount of common sense to realise the ark can not represent mary, for if it did. the lord would be IN the ark. not above it.
Alot of circumstantial evidence here. However. to many things go against this. Circumstancial evidence is only good if their is no adequate proof that something did not happen. As I already showed. in a few posts.
1. The Lord was above the ark. not in it
2. The mercy seat represents Christ. Which is the top of the ark. or the part seen. not the commandments, which were inside the ark, and represents judgment.
3. The blood placed on the mercy seat represents the blood of christ. in which the Lord (who is above the ark) sees, and thus shows mercy on those who have been condemned by the law.
All these things take precidence over the little bit of circumstantial evidence. which is just that. This does not prove anything
1. This is blasphemy. 1 The old ark would be seen, Because it was Gods mercy seat for the nation of Israel, ever notice why it has not been seen or found?? where did it go?
2.The woman is not mary, it is the nation of Isreal. The mother of this would not be mary, she did not birth Isreal. the 12 stars represent the 12 children. who were born of Jacob.
3. Isreal gave birth to Christ. In fulfillment to the promise given to abraham.
stop listening to men, who are leading you astray, and start reading the word of God. and studying it with an open heart. Ask God. he will show you truth.
1. Eve is not referenced in rev 12.
2. This speaks of a future event, When satan takes over a world leader.
3. he tries to go after thew woman (who birthed Christ) But God protects the woman (Not mary)
4. Thus the beast goes after her offspring (the church) where is is allowed to wage war against her and prevail.
This has to be the most ridiculous and scriptural article based on words of men I think I have ever heard. It felt like reading an ancient pegan folklore. Of course. It would make sense. Since the "virgin, sinless mother of God" is of pagan origin.
2. Elizabeth knew that Mary would give birth to the messiah. She was told this. Thus it is no stretch to understand Elizabeth calling mary the mother of her Lord (messiah) It in no way says Elizabeth Understood the god of the universe was inside mary's womb at this time. Again this is just words of men with no biblical proof or fact.
3. Again, God was not in the ark. he was ABOVE IT. The only way Mary could be equated with the ark is that God would be inside the ark. This is not true. Thus again. Mary being the new ark is again the words of men. with no scriptural proof or backing
Notice the highlighted parts above. The glory of God filled the tabernacle. I twas not inside the ark Also it was over the ark. not inside the ark. Again, It takes just a small amount of common sense to realise the ark can not represent mary, for if it did. the lord would be IN the ark. not above it.
Alot of circumstantial evidence here. However. to many things go against this. Circumstancial evidence is only good if their is no adequate proof that something did not happen. As I already showed. in a few posts.
1. The Lord was above the ark. not in it
2. The mercy seat represents Christ. Which is the top of the ark. or the part seen. not the commandments, which were inside the ark, and represents judgment.
3. The blood placed on the mercy seat represents the blood of christ. in which the Lord (who is above the ark) sees, and thus shows mercy on those who have been condemned by the law.
All these things take precidence over the little bit of circumstantial evidence. which is just that. This does not prove anything
1. This is blasphemy. 1 The old ark would be seen, Because it was Gods mercy seat for the nation of Israel, ever notice why it has not been seen or found?? where did it go?
2.The woman is not mary, it is the nation of Isreal. The mother of this would not be mary, she did not birth Isreal. the 12 stars represent the 12 children. who were born of Jacob.
3. Isreal gave birth to Christ. In fulfillment to the promise given to abraham.
stop listening to men, who are leading you astray, and start reading the word of God. and studying it with an open heart. Ask God. he will show you truth.
1. Eve is not referenced in rev 12.
2. This speaks of a future event, When satan takes over a world leader.
3. he tries to go after thew woman (who birthed Christ) But God protects the woman (Not mary)
4. Thus the beast goes after her offspring (the church) where is is allowed to wage war against her and prevail.
This has to be the most ridiculous and scriptural article based on words of men I think I have ever heard. It felt like reading an ancient pegan folklore. Of course. It would make sense. Since the "virgin, sinless mother of God" is of pagan origin.
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Q
Originaly posted by eternaly course, the Blessed Virgin Mary.
1. This is blasphemy. 1 The old ark would be seen, Because it was Gods mercy seat for the nation of Israel, ever notice why it has not been seen or found?? where did it go? 2.The woman is not mary, it is the nation of Isreal. The mother of this would not be mary, she did not birth Isreal. the 12 stars represent the 12 children. who were born of Jacob. 3. Isreal gave birth to Christ. In fulfillment to the promise given to abraham.
stop listening to men, who are leading you astray, and start reading the word of God. Phe
Its only blasphemy if you knowingly say something to be untrue.
There is Innocence of faith born into a faith here (think about that will you)
You do not know for sure that mary did not enter the holy of holies.
And we do not know for sure that mary was able to sucesfully resist sin all of her life.
Instead of blastemformising Why dont we try to learn each others faiths.
I
1. This is blasphemy. 1 The old ark would be seen, Because it was Gods mercy seat for the nation of Israel, ever notice why it has not been seen or found?? where did it go? 2.The woman is not mary, it is the nation of Isreal. The mother of this would not be mary, she did not birth Isreal. the 12 stars represent the 12 children. who were born of Jacob. 3. Isreal gave birth to Christ. In fulfillment to the promise given to abraham.
stop listening to men, who are leading you astray, and start reading the word of God. Phe
Its only blasphemy if you knowingly say something to be untrue.
There is Innocence of faith born into a faith here (think about that will you)
You do not know for sure that mary did not enter the holy of holies.
And we do not know for sure that mary was able to sucesfully resist sin all of her life.
Instead of blastemformising Why dont we try to learn each others faiths.
I
Colossians 2
Let No One Disqualify You
16Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. 18Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions,d puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, 19and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.
20If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— 21“Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch” 22(referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings? 23These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.
thing i love about Gods Word (Sola Scriptura) is He accounted for every false notion we may encounter
and told us plainly about it.
Let No One Disqualify You
16Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. 18Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions,d puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, 19and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.
20If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— 21“Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch” 22(referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings? 23These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.
thing i love about Gods Word (Sola Scriptura) is He accounted for every false notion we may encounter
and told us plainly about it.
E
1. Yes we do know mary was unable to resist sin her whole life because scripture states there is only one who did not sin, and that was christ. Also Mary called jesus her savior.l one who has never sinned does not need a savior. she has saved herself. Also. Mary was given grace, If mary did nto or could not sin, she would not need grace, because grace is only given to people who do not deserve it. we are given grace because we have sinned and fall short. if mary was given grace, it is because she has sinned and falls short.
2. Because of the above FACTS, II only named three, I am sure I could find more) anyone who states mary was sinless would be telling as lie. and according to yo9ur own defenition of blasphemy,, well you get the picture right??
2. Because of the above FACTS, II only named three, I am sure I could find more) anyone who states mary was sinless would be telling as lie. and according to yo9ur own defenition of blasphemy,, well you get the picture right??
E
In fact, mary did nto have to be sinless. She only had to be given grace and forgiveness from her sin. Which Christ would accomplish on the cross. Which is exactly what the angel told mary when she was spoken to. You have been given grace. If mary was sinless. she sould not need grace, she would have earnbed the rite to carry Christ.
Thus she was seen as saved by God just like every other OT person was saved and deemed innocent of guilt. By looking forward to the death of mary's son, who paid for her sin also.
Thus she was seen as saved by God just like every other OT person was saved and deemed innocent of guilt. By looking forward to the death of mary's son, who paid for her sin also.
Q
Im not só sure as in this passage here the angel greets mary.
Look for your self :
"And the angel came in unto her, and said, hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women." - Luke 1:
As you can see the Angel greets mary and says hail mary full of grace.
The Angel is not giving mary Grace as you put it she has already Got it .
E
You missed the point completely my friend.
the fact is, if mary was sinless. SHE WOULD NOT NEED IT. thus she would not have been given it in the first place. ONLY A SINNER needs GRACE.
by thew way, you also missed what I said. I said the angel told mary she had been given grace, which is exactly what you just said. thus we said the same thing
the fact is, if mary was sinless. SHE WOULD NOT NEED IT. thus she would not have been given it in the first place. ONLY A SINNER needs GRACE.
by thew way, you also missed what I said. I said the angel told mary she had been given grace, which is exactly what you just said. thus we said the same thing
The tassels are just more symbolism.
Soon enough people replace the real thing with the symbolism.
And start worshiping the symbols.
The children of Israel did it at the 2nd alter built across the Jordan river as a reminder that the two tribes who were settled there were actually part of Israel.
But eventually it began being used as an actual altar, (against God's law).
Also God said in Exodus 20:22-24 (KJV) 22 And the Lord said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.
23Ye shall not make with me gods of silver, neither shall ye make unto you gods of gold.
For the same reason......the symbols would be venerated - idolized.
- All those images you cherish and display on this page are images.
Don't venerate them! "Ye shall not make with me gods of silver, neither shall ye make unto you gods of gold." - Ex. 20:23
Soon enough people replace the real thing with the symbolism.
And start worshiping the symbols.
The children of Israel did it at the 2nd alter built across the Jordan river as a reminder that the two tribes who were settled there were actually part of Israel.
But eventually it began being used as an actual altar, (against God's law).
Also God said in Exodus 20:22-24 (KJV) 22 And the Lord said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.
23Ye shall not make with me gods of silver, neither shall ye make unto you gods of gold.
For the same reason......the symbols would be venerated - idolized.
- All those images you cherish and display on this page are images.
Don't venerate them! "Ye shall not make with me gods of silver, neither shall ye make unto you gods of gold." - Ex. 20:23
1.My view can only be according to the Church.
2.Mary was full human.As that on her was sin of Adam,as it was in Old Testament and as it is now.Her nature was sinfull nature of man.No where in the Bible u will find any human who didnt had any sin.That was only Godman Jesus Christ,but he was God and man,the 2 natures.In Him the sinfull nature of man was deified(Godification).I dont know correct wordbut i hope u understood me.And as a human,Mary also needed a Savior.
It is very wrong to equall Mary with no sin human,because that is impossible.
As u know,there were many righorius people in Old Testament and New Testament.On some way,they all were dear to God ,but that doesnt mean that they were spared of trials.But they won it all.The same thing was with Theotokos.She spent her life devoted to God.
3.As she is thus herself the "Holy of Holies"—herself "the Ark"—, again the Lord shall be manifested (Ex. 22:25) unto the race of man, the All-holy Virgin does not simply enter the Temple but goes into the very Holy of Holies, behind the veil with its depictions of the Cherubims. Just as Simeon the God-receiver came by inspiration into the Temple to meet the Infant Lord (Luke 2:27), so also by the inspiration of God the high priest met the Virgin in an extraordinary way, and led her into the holy place, which corresponded to her. In "the chambers built round the walls of the Temple, round the Temple and the oracle (the Holy of Holies), there in the chambers built around at the sides" (3 Kings 6:5), which were by the second Temple, there it was that the All-holy Virgin spent her youth." This passage may be found here:St Spyridon - Australia
From the Vigil of this feast:
The spotless maiden is led by the Holy Spirit to dwell in the Holy of Holies. She, who is truly the most holy temple of our holy God, is fed by an angel. He has sanctified all things by her entry, and has made godlike the fallen nature of mortal men.
With their lamps in hand, the maidens rejoice today as they go in reverence before the spiritual lamp, who enters into the Holy of Holies. They foreshadow the Brightness beyond words that is to shine forth from her, to illumine with the Spirit those that sit in the darkness of ignorance.
After your birth, O Mistress and Bride of God, you came to dwell in the temple of the Lord to be brought up in the Holy of Holies, for you are holy. Gabriel was sent to bring food to you, the undefiled virgin. O Mother of God, without blemish or stain, who is glorified in heaven and on earth, intercede for us.
4.Even as little childrens,on them is 1st sin of Adam.That is why we baptiz our childrens even they are only 40days old.They must get bath for forgiveness of sins.
5.
The All-holy Virgin Mary lived at the Temple until her fourteenth year, continuing in labours, in prayer and in the reading of the word of God, in the fulfilment of every virtue. But at that time it was necessary for her either to return to her parents or be given in marriage. As Joachim and Anna had at that time already reposed, and the All-holy Virgin had no desire to enter marriage, the priests of the Temple betrothed her to a distant relation, the elder Joseph, for him to be the guardian of her virginity.
The All-holy Virgin was consecrated to the Lord after fulfilling three years, following the example of the Old Testament injunction regarding the fruits of the trees: "Three years shall it be uncircumcised unto you, it shall not be eaten of But in the fourth year all the fruit thereof shall be consecrated for the festivals of the Lord" (Lev. 19:23-4).
Read whole text and u will understand St Spyridon - Australia,very good text.
O
Mary was the physical mother of Christ yes, but not like a goddess or anything.
God used her as an instrument of his will, like he does prophets and his people.
I got into so many scuffles with classmates when I went to catholic school, because I absolutely refused to pray to Mary. I see no point. The bible says the only mediator to God is Christ, not his physical birth mother.
I mean no disrespect, and I have respect of Mary because she was a woman of strong faith in God - but she is no less a sinner than I am, for Jesus Christ came to seek not the righteous but the sinners ( Matthew 9:13)
And Mary was one of those people who were sought.
Not sure who denies her physically lol, all I know is that everyone kept pestering me to pray to the woman as if she was some divine being.
No.
And since Jesus Christ was God in the flesh, I've met some catholics who take this to mean she's like the mother of God? Don't think God has a mother and if he did, it wouldn't be a sinner he created himself
I dunno.
That's my two cents lol
God used her as an instrument of his will, like he does prophets and his people.
I got into so many scuffles with classmates when I went to catholic school, because I absolutely refused to pray to Mary. I see no point. The bible says the only mediator to God is Christ, not his physical birth mother.
I mean no disrespect, and I have respect of Mary because she was a woman of strong faith in God - but she is no less a sinner than I am, for Jesus Christ came to seek not the righteous but the sinners ( Matthew 9:13)
And Mary was one of those people who were sought.
Not sure who denies her physically lol, all I know is that everyone kept pestering me to pray to the woman as if she was some divine being.
No.
And since Jesus Christ was God in the flesh, I've met some catholics who take this to mean she's like the mother of God? Don't think God has a mother and if he did, it wouldn't be a sinner he created himself
I dunno.
That's my two cents lol