Mary the mother of my Lord (Heresy?)

[Geometar]

Orthodox Apologetics Apologetics

The Fathers on the Theotokos as the New Eve "

He [Christ] became man by the Virgin, in order that the disobedience which proceeded from the serpent might receive its destruction in the same manner in which it derived its origin. For Eve, who was a virgin and undefiled, having conceived the word of the serpent, brought forth disobedience and death. But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy, when the angel Gabriel announced the good tidings to her that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her, and the power of the Highest would overshadow her: wherefore also the Holy Thing begotten of her is the Son of God; and she replied, ‘Be it unto me according to thy word.’ And by her has He been born, to whom we have proved so many Scriptures refer, and by whom God destroys both the serpent and those angels and men who are like him; but works deliverance from death to those who repent of their wickedness and believe upon Him." - St. Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, 100 (AD 150) "And thus also it was that the knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. For what the virgin Eve had bound fast through unbelief, this did the virgin Mary set free through faith." - St. Irenaeus of Lyons, Against Heresies, 3, 22, 4 (AD 180) "For it was while Eve was yet a virgin, that the ensnaring word had crept into her ear which was to build the edifice of death. Into a virgin’s soul, in like manner, must be introduced that Word of God which was to raise the fabric of life; so that what had been reduced to ruin by this sex, might by the selfsame sex be recovered to salvation. As Eve had believed the serpent, so Mary believed the angel. The delinquency which the one occasioned by believing, the other by believing effaced. " - Tertullian, On the Flesh of Christ, 17 (AD 200) "Death came through Eve, but life has come through Mary." - St. Jerome of Stridonium, Letter to Eustochium, 21 (AD 384) "... Christ found in the Virgin that which He willed to make His own, that which the Lord of all might take to Himself. Further, our flesh was cast out of Paradise by a man and woman and was joined to God through a Virgin." - St. Ambrose of Milan, Letter to the Church at Vercellae, 33 (AD 396)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well Maybe thats Why god Got it wrong the first time because the women was taken out of man, Adam and eve .

Only the next time he reversed it and the second Adam came out of the women .
I say Adam not as in Jesus but in the sence in which he created Adam an eve.

lol. so God made a mistake? Your joking right? see what I hate about the orthodox/catholic view.

News flash. god can not make a mistake. HE IS GOD. so any thinking which would be like what you just said puts God in a poor light, and makes him a mere man capable of making mistakes. if you don;t understand this. how can you possibly understand God.

men made pagan gods. these Gods could make mistakes. and often did/. so they had to correct their mistakes. now do you see why so many place Catholicism and orthodoxy in the rhelm of paganism? there is no difference in their gods.

1. the can make mistakes
2. they have a mother
3. They must be worshiped by some sort of sacramental system.
4. They can be manipulated by man (if I do this, then God must do that)
5. etc etc etc.

This is the roman God. not the God of the universe.

 

[Geometar]

« CONSEQUENCES OF ADAM'S SIN
THE CHRIST OF THE GOSPELS:

GOD AND MAN » JESUS CHRIST, THE 'NEW ADAM'

The first-created Adam was unable to fulfil the vocation laid before him: to attain deification and bring to God the visible world by means of spiritual and moral perfection. Having broken the commandment and having fallen away from the sweetness of Paradise, he had the way to deification closed to him. Yet everything that the first man left undone was accomplished for him by God Incarnate, the Word-become- flesh, the Lord Jesus Christ. He trod that path to the human person which the latter was meant to tread towards Him. And if this would have been the way of ascent for the human person, for God it was the way of humble condescension, of self-emptying ( kenosis ). St Paul calls Christ the 'second Adam', contrasting Him with the 'first': 'The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven' (1 Cor.15:47). This parallelism was developed by St John Chrysostom, who emphasized that Adam was the prototype of Christ: 'Adam is the image of Christ ...as the man for those who came from him, even though they did not eat of the tree, became the cause of death, then Christ for those who were born of Him, although they have done no good, became the bearer of righteousness, which he gave to all of us through the cross'. Few people accepted the second Adam or believed in Him when He down to earth. The Incarnate Jesus, Who suffered and was raised, became a 'a stumbling block to Jews and folly [Greek, skandalon ] to Gentiles' (1 Cor.1:23). Declaring Himself to be God and making Himself equal to God, Jesus scandalize Jews and was accused in blasphemy. As to the Greeks, Christianity was folly for them because Greek thought sought a logical and rational explanation for everything; it was not within its power to know a suffering and dying God. For many centuries Greek wisdom built a temple to 'an unknown God' (Acts 17:23). It was incapable of understanding how an unknowable, incomprehensible, all-powerful, almighty, omniscient and omnipresent God could become a mortal, suffering, weak human person. A God, Who would be born of a Virgin, a God Who would be in swaddling clothes, Who would be put to sleep and be fed with milk: all of this seemed absurd to the Greeks. Even among the Christians of the first centuries, the mystery of godmanhood was explained in a different ways. In the second century the Docetists claimed that Christ's human nature was merely transparent: it only seemed that He suffered and died on the cross, while God in fact, being passionless, could not suffer at all. The Docetists considered all that was material and corporeal to be evil and could not concede that God had put on sinful and evil flesh, that He had united Himself with dust. The other extreme was that of Arianism which denied Christ's Divinity and reduced the Son of God to the level of created being. How were extremes to be avoided and how was the Church to find a legitimate explanation for the mystery of Christ?

 

[quickfire]

E

lol. so God made a mistake? Your joking right? see what I hate about the orthodox/catholic view.

News flash. god can not make a mistake. HE IS GOD. so any thinking which would be like what you just said puts God in a poor light, and makes him a mere man capable of making mistakes. if you don;t understand this. how can you possibly understand God.

men made pagan gods. these Gods could make mistakes. and often did/. so they had to correct their mistakes. now do you see why so many place Catholicism and orthodoxy in the rhelm of paganism? there is no difference in their gods.

1. the can make mistakes
2. they have a mother
3. They must be worshiped by some sort of sacramental system.
4. They can be manipulated by man (if I do this, then God must do that)
5. etc etc etc.

This is the roman God. not the God of the universe.

You get me wrong bro.

God created Adam an eve to be be purê he wanted them not to sin unforntunately they did which was passed onto

Us só in that sence he failed as a father .

And Maybe he thought well the next Adam and eve i Shall bring the man out of the women ,

I might have more of a chance of perfection ? Só that his perfection could be passed to us in the long run

 

[eternally-gratefull]

E

You get me wrong bro.

God created Adam an eve to be be purê he wanted them not to sin unforntunately they did which was passed onto

Us só in that sence he failed as a father .

No. he did not fail as a father. he gave them everything they needed. It was them who failed as children.

Again, you have God failing. BAD BAD BAD IDEA!!

And Maybe he thought well the next Adam and eve i Shall bring the man out of the women ,

No, He decided that all men will die in adam, so the gift of eternal life can be given to all who are born into Christ. mary had nothing to do with his decision. Gen 3: 15 was not about mary, it was about Christ.

I might have more of a chance of perfection ? Só that his perfection could be passed to us in the long run

this makes no sense/ Try to stop thinking for God. and try to learn to think about who God is what he is, and what he did.

 

[quickfire]

No. he did not fail as a father. he gave them everything they needed. It was them who failed as children.

Again, you have God failing. BAD BAD BAD IDEA!!



we needed a savior did we not ?

we needed to have our sins washed from the first adam and eve.

the difference here is i am trying to understand cathoilic beliefs and you are trying to show me i am wrong.

I am not trying to show favour or make you think otherwise i am trying to understand there way of thinking.

If catholics see mary as the new eve then they must also think about the old eve, "in the sense that eve sinned and mary did not" , do you understand me now ?)

so im thinking from a catholic point of view here ( and if i was thinking why god would want a second eve then surely he must think well i was not to happy about the first eve as a father , so i do not feel to good to say that he has failed or got it wrong, just making a point. ok so me saying he failed or got it wrong was maybe not a good choice of words, but i think you get my meaning.

But maybe if there is any truth to this then i wonder what could be gods thinking behind this.

maybe a seed was planted in mary from when she was born or some sought off a seed that helped her fruits become plentiful. and sinless.

maybe when the time was right a second seed was planted.

maybe mary was a seed from the first place i do not know.

but i know one thing and that god is the greatest

god can do wonderful things right?.

i mean he can just about do anything.

 

[Rock022]

No. he did not fail as a father. he gave them everything they needed. It was them who failed as children.

Again, you have God failing. BAD BAD BAD IDEA!!



No, He decided that all men will die in adam, so the gift of eternal life can be given to all who are born into Christ. mary had nothing to do with his decision. Gen 3: 15 was not about mary, it was about Christ.



this makes no sense/ Try to stop thinking for God. and try to learn to think about who God is what he is, and what he did.

What does it mean to be FULL of grace? Full of it, with no room for sin, or margin for error.
You are very ignorant of Roman Catholic beliefs. Much of the things you say are not true for the RC. If you where roman catholic as a child and left the church, you learned nothing really. The blessed Virgin Mary is not a God, and those who treat Her as a God in the roman catholic church need to be corrected or excommunicated. There where a group of nuns in canada who even believed she reincarnated in the body of one of them, this nuns where excommunicated from the church and will not be able to take the body of christ in the eucharist.

To say that She is equal to a prophet is sort of an insult. Which prophet God trusted His Life to for nine months? Do you reason a perfect God being able to live in the womb of a sinner, and being touched by sin? This would had given Jesus the sin of the flesh trough the Blessed Virgin Mary. God had a plan the minute he decided to become one of us. Is it possible that God did not give the seed of the original sin to the Blessed Virgin Mary, so that the body of God would not be stained by sin at all and become perfect?

Mary was not made by the Holy Spirit, she was just not given the seed of sin so she could be able to form the body of God in Her womb.


Analogy:

A person falls in to a mud hole, another person comes and rescues the muddy person and cleans them. [us]
A person is about to fall in the mud hole but another person rescues her before she even touches the mud, she remained clean but she still needed a savior. [The Blessed Virgin Mary]

She is not God, I ask her to keep me in her prayers.

Go directly to Jesus! Then why then are we asked to pray for each other? Because it is pleasing to God. If that is what we are taught in earth, how much would we pray when we are in heaven with ought the seed of sin in us?

Who says that they are dead as we speak? God is the beginning and the end, therefor He is the past and the future. He does not exist in time but in eternity. Yes our bodies are dead here on earth, but our spirit lives with God in eternity, a place where the future has already happened.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No. he did not fail as a father. he gave them everything they needed. It was them who failed as children.

Again, you have God failing. BAD BAD BAD IDEA!!



we needed a savior did we not ?

we needed to have our sins washed from the first adam and eve.

we need to have our own sins washed. not just the sin of adam and eve. if we take just that sin away, we are still left wiht the filth of our own sin. Thus we would still be doomed.

the difference here is i am trying to understand cathoilic beliefs and you are trying to show me i am wrong.

I am trying to help yo understand the catholic belief is wrong, what you do with it, is up to you.

I am not trying to show favour or make you think otherwise i am trying to understand there way of thinking.

If catholics see mary as the new eve then they must also think about the old eve, "in the sense that eve sinned and mary did not" , do you understand me now ?)

This would only make sense if mary did not sin, which is not the case. which I have I have shown you. so why would you still be looking at it that way?

so im thinking from a catholic point of view here ( and if i was thinking why god would want a second eve then surely he must think well i was not to happy about the first eve as a father , so i do not feel to good to say that he has failed or got it wrong, just making a point. ok so me saying he failed or got it wrong was maybe not a good choice of words, but i think you get my meaning.

But maybe if there is any truth to this then i wonder what could be gods thinking behind this.

maybe a seed was planted in mary from when she was born or some sought off a seed that helped her fruits become plentiful. and sinless.

maybe when the time was right a second seed was planted.

maybe mary was a seed from the first place i do not know.

but i know one thing and that god is the greatest

god can do wonderful things right?.

i mean he can just about do anything.

yes he can. He took a pure seed in a sinning woman who needed grace, and made that seed grow, so we can have our savior. what A loving God. that he used a sinner to bore our savior. so our savior can not only save her, but save us.. WOW can god show his love any more than this?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What does it mean to be FULL of grace? Full of it, with no room for sin, or margin for error.

Grace is unearned favor. if grace is given, it means it was unearned.

Are you saying mary gets more grace than us? if mary was not a sinner, she would get less grace than many people. because th emore a person has sinned, the more grace they demand..

You are very ignorant of Roman Catholic beliefs. Much of the things you say are not true for the RC. If you where roman catholic as a child and left the church, you learned nothing really. The blessed Virgin Mary is not a God, and those who treat Her as a God in the roman catholic church need to be corrected or excommunicated. There where a group of nuns in canada who even believed she reincarnated in the body of one of them, this nuns where excommunicated from the church and will not be able to take the body of christ in the eucharist.

And here we go. If you do not believe me, you do not understand me. This excuse gets old.

1. mary was not sinless. Scripture proves this.
2. Christ is not in the eucharist, if he was, everything jesus promised in John 6 would come on every one who partakes it. Since this is not the case. This is not what Christ spoke of in John 6.

and yes I do understand. I have studied it, and do not believe it.

To say that She is equal to a prophet is sort of an insult. Which prophet God trusted His Life to for nine months?

He trusted daniel from the time he was about 16 until his death. He trusted samual almost his whole life. he trusted the disciples for 3 years. then trusted them until he took them home. Are you serious when you say things like this? are you trying your best to prove to yourself that you are right?

Do you reason a perfect God being able to live in the womb of a sinner, and being touched by sin?

Why would he be touched by sin? Sin is not in the flesh, it is in the soul. Did maries soul touch Jesus so that he would be contaminated with sin?

This would had given Jesus the sin of the flesh trough the Blessed Virgin Mary.

No, he would only be given sin passed down if her seed was touched by man/. Adams seed comes through man. The HS became mans seed. it was not that she was perfect, it was that her SEED was not touched by man. thus mans sin did not pass down.

God had a plan the minute he decided to become one of us. Is it possible that God did not give the seed of the original sin to the Blessed Virgin Mary, so that the body of God would not be stained by sin at all and become perfect?

Sin is not passed by the woman, it is pased by the man.. It does not say in eve all die. it says in adam all die. yes God did have a plan. he planned not to have the seed of the woman contaminated with the sin of adam.

Mary was not made by the Holy Spirit, she was just not given the seed of sin so she could be able to form the body of God in Her womb.

mary did not receive the seed of sin from her mother, she received it by her father.. Thus your argument is invalid.

 

[quickfire]

eternily gratfull do you believe 100 percent in your heart that mary sinned

and if so what do you have to back that up.

 

[Rock022]

I explained it, if you do not belief this is ok, but stop giving false witness to something you do not know of. We do not worship the blessed virgin Mary as you say, we ask her for prayer.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

eternily gratfull do you believe 100 percent in your heart that mary sinned

and if so what do you have to back that up.

have you not listened to a word I said?

1. She was given grace, if she was sinless. she would not need grace
2. She called Christ her savior. if she was sinless, she saved herself and would not be in need of a savior.


this is more than enough.

Now ask yourself this/ Do you believe 100 % she was sinless? and if you do. where in the story of her life (not in words of men) do you have proof this was so?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I explained it, if you do not belief this is ok, but stop giving false witness to something you do not know of. We do not worship the blessed virgin Mary as you say, we ask her for prayer.

saying you do not do something, and doing it is not the same. when you pray to someone, you are worshiping them. When you honor someone you are worshiping them. When you claim she is sinless. you are worshiping her. when you make statues of her, you are worshiping her. When you call her holy and blessed based on what she did, you are worshiping her. When you call her a mediator, you are worshiping her.

A rock is a rock is it not? no matter how often the rock tries to say it is not a rock, it is still a rock..

And stop telling me i do not understand. i understand completely. just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they do not understand. If you are wrong, and God confronts you on the issue, are you going to tell God he does not understand? if I am wrong, i am not going to blame it on someone else. i am going to be accountable for my own beliefs and my own errors.

Stop blaming it on everyone else.

 

[oOfallen_angelOo]

AGREED.

Even the main prayer to mary is " HAIL Mary," meaning to honor and revere in a higher stature.

I also agree with what you said about Mary not being sinless; anyone on this earth has been put here because of sin, and requires forgiveness. Mary was not some divine sinless woman; she was but a woman of God, and God blessed her to bring a savior into the world. That's why Mary was so exasperated and asked God why such a title as mother of God came to be given to her - and this was only referencing physical mother of Jesus not anything of spiritual stature. She said God because she already recognized Jesus as Lord and it was an honor to her to be blessed to give birth to the Savior.

What I truly don't understand, is that if the bible says one thing and people realize this, why do they hardened themselves against it?

 

[quickfire]

originaly posted by eternily

yes he can. He took a pure seed in a sinning woman who needed grace, and made that seed grow, so we can have our savior. what A loving God. that he used a sinner to bore our savior. so our savior can not only save her, but save us.. WOW can god show his love any more than this?

i can understand that but your way of thinking is just as believable to christians as the roman catholics way of thinking is to catholics.
if god could make a seed grow from a woman who has the seed of original sin, then it could also make sense that he has the devine power to plant a seed.
hence the belief of immaculate conception.

origianly posted by eternily


1. She was given grace, if she was sinless. she would not need grace
2. She called Christ her savior. if she was sinless, she saved herself and would not be in need of a savior.

mary was greeted by the angel the angel said hail mary full of grace,? "to me that sounds like the grace is already there.
she called christ her savior,? well he is our savior is he not ? catholics see mary as an eve not as god?

so if this is what devides us then its sad.
it does not matter much really and it not matter much that rc catholics ask mary for prayer.
what matters is rc catholics believe in jesus and believe like christians that god is the greatest.

does mary has titles in heaven, i do not see any harm in that either

what title that is is open for debate and i am at a loss with that one myself.

i am at a loss with all this to be honest.

statues of mary on the cross is wrong" we know that worshiping other statues is wrong to. but rock has already pointed out to you that is just a few churches. not all.
what your implying is all, which is wrong of you to think that way.
christian churches have statues of mary in them does that meen they worship them. no it does not

 

[eternally-gratefull]

AGREED.

Even the main prayer to mary is " HAIL Mary," meaning to honor and revere in a higher stature.

I also agree with what you said about Mary not being sinless; anyone on this earth has been put here because of sin, and requires forgiveness. Mary was not some divine sinless woman; she was but a woman of God, and God blessed her to bring a savior into the world. That's why Mary was so exasperated and asked God why such a title as mother of God came to be given to her - and this was only referencing physical mother of Jesus not anything of spiritual stature. She said God because she already recognized Jesus as Lord and it was an honor to her to be blessed to give birth to the Savior.

What I truly don't understand, is that if the bible says one thing and people realize this, why do they hardened themselves against it?

because men tell them to listen to them. because only they have been given truth. do not trust your own understanding, only we have infallability

secondly. Because we do not want to admit those we trust have taught us wrong. we have made an error. and whatever other reason we can come up with.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

originaly posted by eternily

yes he can. He took a pure seed in a sinning woman who needed grace, and made that seed grow, so we can have our savior. what A loving God. that he used a sinner to bore our savior. so our savior can not only save her, but save us.. WOW can god show his love any more than this?

i can understand that but your way of thinking is just as believable to christians as the roman catholics way of thinking is to catholics.
if god could make a seed grow from a woman who has the seed of original sin, then it could also make sense that he has the devine power to plant a seed.
hence the belief of immaculate conception.

Only if it is founded in scripture should it be believed. God did not plant a seed. he took the seed which was in her and touched it.. He took the place of the man in conception..

origianly posted by eternily


1. She was given grace, if she was sinless. she would not need grace
2. She called Christ her savior. if she was sinless, she saved herself and would not be in need of a savior.

mary was greeted by the angel the angel said hail mary full of grace,? "to me that sounds like the grace is already there.

Yep it was. which proves she must have had sin, because as I said, if she was sinless. she would not need grace.

Adam and eve did not need grace until they sinned, after they sinned, they could not return to God or do anything for him apart from grace.

Jesus did not need grace, because he did not sin.

why can;t you see this?

she called christ her savior,? well he is our savior is he not ? catholics see mary as an eve not as god?

Again, If Mary was sinless. why would she need a savior? she has saved herself, because she fulfilled the law.

so if this is what devides us then its sad.
it does not matter much really and it not matter much that rc catholics ask mary for prayer.
what matters is rc catholics believe in jesus and believe like christians that god is the greatest.

does mary has titles in heaven, i do not see any harm in that either

what title that is is open for debate and i am at a loss with that one myself.

i am at a loss with all this to be honest.

statues of mary on the cross is wrong" we know that worshiping other statues is wrong to. but rock has already pointed out to you that is just a few churches. not all.
what your implying is all, which is wrong of you to think that way.
christian churches have statues of mary in them does that meen they worship them. no it does not

there is more that separates us, this is not a salvic issue, i agree with this. it is just one major issue which should get people to question every thing else the roman church teaches. remember, it is they who claim infallibility, if they got one thing wrong, they are not very infallable are they?

what is important is the gospel.

The catholics claim they have the only true gospel. Yet all others who teach a different gospel can be saved. Yet scripture says there is on. and to even change one point of it, to make it a different gospel makes it no gospel at all.

thus according to scripture. Roman catholics and eastern orthodox are saved, and no one else is. Or the romans have the wrong gospel themselves. and are in danger. it can not be both ways, it MUST be one or the other.

 

[oOfallen_angelOo]

originaly posted by eternily

yes he can. He took a pure seed in a sinning woman who needed grace, and made that seed grow, so we can have our savior. what A loving God. that he used a sinner to bore our savior. so our savior can not only save her, but save us.. WOW can god show his love any more than this?

i can understand that but your way of thinking is just as believable to christians as the roman catholics way of thinking is to catholics.
if god could make a seed grow from a woman who has the seed of original sin, then it could also make sense that he has the devine power to plant a seed.
hence the belief of immaculate conception.

origianly posted by eternily


1. She was given grace, if she was sinless. she would not need grace
2. She called Christ her savior. if she was sinless, she saved herself and would not be in need of a savior.

mary was greeted by the angel the angel said hail mary full of grace,? "to me that sounds like the grace is already there.
she called christ her savior,? well he is our savior is he not ? catholics see mary as an eve not as god?

so if this is what devides us then its sad.
it does not matter much really and it not matter much that rc catholics ask mary for prayer.
what matters is rc catholics believe in jesus and believe like christians that god is the greatest.

does mary has titles in heaven, i do not see any harm in that either

what title that is is open for debate and i am at a loss with that one myself.

i am at a loss with all this to be honest.

statues of mary on the cross is wrong" we know that worshiping other statues is wrong to. but rock has already pointed out to you that is just a few churches. not all.
what your implying is all, which is wrong of you to think that way.
christian churches have statues of mary in them does that meen they worship them. no it does not

Where is the verse that says the angel said " Hail Mary full of grace?"

I'm reading in Luke and the angel says, " Greetings you who are highly favored..."

Not full of grace?

Yes Mary needed a savior to save her from her sin as we all do.

As far as giving titles;

It's not so much the titles as it is the aspect of reverence. The cross is considered an idol biblicaly, and even the bible talks about those who bow before these objects made of wood or stone ( statues,) and even the Pope has bowed before a statue of Mary.

It is essentially idolatry.

Then there are verses that say, " there is only one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ," 1 Timothy I believe - meaning prayers and all that jazz are to be given to Christ alone, not anyone else because they do not share that mediator authority.

God specifies these things through the bible for a reason - and idolatry and giving authority to human figures leads to false teachings and being lead away from the commandments of God. Note that things such as these gave birth to the reformation in which the teachings of the church have become collectively subjective and thus unreliable for real truth.

No one really knows the truth to God and it's because everyone put their little spin on the bible. This is no good, because this essentially is man enforcing man's thoughts on what was laid down by God.

Thus Jesus Christ brought the gospel with him; he didn't just come to the earth to bear sin, but he left a New covenant and various commands and teachings for his people to follow. None of which talk about crucifixes or praying to anyone else but him.

I suppose the common idea is that these smaller details don't matter - but perhaps these details aren't " small " in the eyes of God, since they are addressed so strongly in the bible.

Idk...

 

[quickfire]

All You Need Is Love in the Style of "The Beatles" with lyrics (no lead vocal) - YouTube

 

[Rock022]

Where is the verse that says the angel said " Hail Mary full of grace?"

I'm reading in Luke and the angel says, " Greetings you who are highly favored..."

Not full of grace?

Yes Mary needed a savior to save her from her sin as we all do.

As far as giving titles;

It's not so much the titles as it is the aspect of reverence. The cross is considered an idol biblicaly, and even the bible talks about those who bow before these objects made of wood or stone ( statues,) and even the Pope has bowed before a statue of Mary.

It is essentially idolatry.

Then there are verses that say, " there is only one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ," 1 Timothy I believe - meaning prayers and all that jazz are to be given to Christ alone, not anyone else because they do not share that mediator authority.

God specifies these things through the bible for a reason - and idolatry and giving authority to human figures leads to false teachings and being lead away from the commandments of God. Note that things such as these gave birth to the reformation in which the teachings of the church have become collectively subjective and thus unreliable for real truth.

No one really knows the truth to God and it's because everyone put their little spin on the bible. This is no good, because this essentially is man enforcing man's thoughts on what was laid down by God.

Thus Jesus Christ brought the gospel with him; he didn't just come to the earth to bear sin, but he left a New covenant and various commands and teachings for his people to follow. None of which talk about crucifixes or praying to anyone else but him.

I suppose the common idea is that these smaller details don't matter - but perhaps these details aren't " small " in the eyes of God, since they are addressed so strongly in the bible.

Idk...

It seems you read a water down version of the bible, for it is translated "Hail, full of grace" and it seems the rest of the world has also translated it like this.

I have come across some bibles in english that say "Rejoice, for you are in favor" How much water down can the words of an angel get?