Mary the mother of my Lord (Heresy?)

[Katy-follower]

This is my answer to all this madness

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

If you wait until judgment day then it's too late for you. Salvation is offered now, while we're living and breathing. Once we die it's too late to be saved. First comes death then judgment. God has given us 100 years, if we're fortunate to live that long, but after that comes eternity in one of two places and no second chances once you're dead.

There are two different types of judgments - one for the non believers and one for the saints.

The scripture you mention is addressed to the saints that are in the body of Christ (those born again). It's the time when we receive rewards (various crowns) for our works here on earth. (Works of the Holy Spirit, not works of self). There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. Once a person is saved they are no longer condemned. They've been forgiven and have become new creatures in Christ.

There will be a great white throne judgment, but it's reserved for those that rejected God's free gift of salvation while they were living here in the world. No born again Christian will face the great white throne. Anyone that sees the great white throne is already doomed, their eternal destination is already confirmed and there is no second chance for them. First comes death, then judgment.

A person has until their last breath to be saved..... and you never know when that last breath will be.

SO WE WILL ALL COME BEFORE CHRIST HE WILL PASS THE FINAL JUDGMENT

Yes, God is judge, but when you're saved you're given eternal security straight away. A person that has no eternal security cannot help a person that's lost, and the bible helps equip us to help the lost once we're saved. When you're saved you know where you're going and you know who is lost. When we're saved we breath to share the good news of salvation, through Jesus Christ, because of what He's done for us and we want to see others saved.

 

[kenisyes]

Why would Jesus overheard something that u haven't said to Him?

God is everywhere. He knows everything, right?

And there is another explanation, too. God loves people and loves to bless us. We get blessed a lot without ever asking. Maybe some answers to prayer are just some of His blessings.

 

[Geometar]

This is all so very sad when a brother in god like geo can not say he believes mary was sinless all her life in case he gets bashed around the head.
instead he says she was spotless her all whole life.

BUT STOP pause , WHAT A LOVELY THOUGHT, are blessed mary full of grace was sinless her whole life.
or perhaps she was made pure from the holy one.

geo if you believe she was sinless her whole life its fine brother geo,

lets look at this another way, i hear christians say mary could not be sinless her whole life because her and all the rest of us inherited the original seed of sin,
so she is no different to anyone of us,

STOP, pause,

what a load of rubbish. really even if she does have the seed of original sin its not something she would act upon and become a sinner her self and its not something she would be judged upon either.
i think where this really comes from is someone blaming adam and eve for there sins. even if we did inherit them where all different, ie you would not put your hand in the fire if i told you too would you.

so what where saying here really is god can give mary a virgin the seed of the holy spirit and from her fruits of her womb shall come god in his flesh. but we can not say that god made mary a perfect temple first , IMAGINE THAT ,

lets look at it another way lets look at in a away you have never looked at it befor.

god stopped the original seed of sin coming any where near him whilst in marys womb either that or he soaked it up and spat it out (its one or the other if you feal mary was not sinless.

so ask your self this what ever happend in marys womb something would have happend to marys seeds of sins (and wheather you like it or not she would of been spirutual clean afterwards. (IF NOT BEFORE)

who knows the truth but to say that if mary was sinless she would be equal to god is wrong. simply because god wants us to pure god wants us to be good,
he doesnt want us to be sinners.

its all madness is what it is im not sure its even worth having a debate over my self.

if your a better person than me and have better standards than me then good as i would really love to learn from you, "not make you out to be bad because i see something i dont have is the way we should be looking at it.

because all i am hearing hear it not possible to be free of sin. (it is possible to have sin yes but its all so possible not to carry on sinning.

lets have a look at presumptuos sins because this is what deviding our friend ship.

and rock22 quick question i just asked you for an explanation on why the pope is the vicar of jesus in his church.

Quick,i gave u an Orthodox view of Virgin Mary.She wasn't sinless,but she was a Virgin and she left a Virgin whole her life.I don't understand what u cannot understand?How Jesus was sinless if Mary wasn't sinless?

 

[Geometar]

God is everywhere. He knows everything, right?

And there is another explanation, too. God loves people and loves to bless us. We get blessed a lot without ever asking. Maybe some answers to prayer are just some of His blessings.

He does know everything and every heart and every need,but why then a command to pray one for another?
We are blessed,but we are tempted by Lord also.

We are now on subject "prayer".

 

[quickfire]

posted by katty
Originally Posted by quickfire

This is my answer to all this madness

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
If you wait until judgment day then it's too late for you. Salvation is offered now, while we're living and breathing. Once we die it's too late to be saved. First comes death then judgment. God has given us 100 years, if we're fortunate to live that long, but after that comes eternity in one of two places and no second chances once you're dead.

There are two different types of judgments - one for the non believers and one for the saints.

The scripture you mention is addressed to the saints that are in the body of Christ (those born again). It's the time when we receive rewards (various crowns) for our works here on earth. (Works of the Holy Spirit, not works of self). There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. Once a person is saved they are no longer condemned. They've been forgiven and have become new creatures in Christ.

There will be a great white throne judgment, but it's reserved for those that rejected God's free gift of salvation while they were living here in the world. No born again Christian will face the great white throne. Anyone that sees the great white throne is already doomed, their eternal destination is already confirmed and there is no second chance for them. First comes death, then judgment.

A person has until their last breath to be saved..... and you never know when that last breath will be.


Quote:
Originally Posted by quickfire

SO WE WILL ALL COME BEFORE CHRIST HE WILL PASS THE FINAL JUDGMENT

Yes, God is judge, but when you're saved you're given eternal security straight away. A person that has no eternal security cannot help a person that's lost, and the bible helps equip us to help the lost once we're saved. When you're saved you know where you're going and you know who is lost. When we're saved we breath to share the good news of salvation, through Jesus Christ, because of what He's done for us and we want to see others saved.


katty what is it you do not understand about the judgment seat not being part of your own salvation ?
what is people do not understand about baptism not being the start of your salvation ? or as important.
what is it that people do not understand that your own salvation is more important than anyone elses ?

 

[kenisyes]

He does know everything and every heart and every need,but why then a command to pray one for another?
We are blessed,but we are tempted by Lord also.

We are now on subject "prayer".

Because it gets us closer to Him, and closer to each other. I do not question that we should pray for each other while we live. Some are attacking the idea that we should ask the saints to pray for each other; that may be a different matter, as some have said to you.

Scripture says "God tempts no man" (James 1:13)

 

[Geometar]

Because it gets us closer to Him, and closer to each other. I do not question that we should pray for each other while we live. Some are attacking the idea that we should ask the saints to pray for each other; that may be a different matter, as some have said to you.

Scripture says "God tempts no man" (James 1:13)

Saints to pray for another Saint on Heavens?

Indeed we get many blessing from God even we didn't directly ask.But on all things we must give a thanks to God.All things coming from Him.Good as reward and bad as punishment(because of love on us).

 

[quickfire]

Quick,i gave u an Orthodox view of Virgin Mary.She wasn't sinless,but she was a Virgin and she left a Virgin whole her life.I don't understand what u cannot understand?How Jesus was sinless if Mary wasn't sinless?

to say she was a virgin her whole life is what you mean by being clean, "sorry if thats what you ment

any ways geo sinless or not. immaculate or not makes no difference to me.

because i dont hold anyone higher than god and neither does rock22.

there is more important things to be concerned about and that is your own salvation. everything else will be shown to you on your evaluation day

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad

and all means all

 

[Geometar]

Sure quickfire.I do agree.But i must put visible line between sinless and righterious life.

 

[quickfire]

Sure quickfire.I do agree.But i must put visible line between sinless and righterious life.

geo in my eyes she would not have been able to survive the holy of holies just being a virgin alone.
more to it than that bro.

 

[Katy-follower]

katty what is it you do not understand about the judgment seat not being part of your own salvation ?

The gift of salvation is offered NOW. Once you're dead it's too late to be saved. We are not saved after death. We have until our last breath to accept God's free gift of salvation.

Once you are saved (in this life) you are no longer condemned. Romans 8:1: "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus"

John 5:24: "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life"

2 Cor 5:17: "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new"

Those born again will not face condemnation, just rewards for our work, or lack of, if we were lazy. Those not born again face condemnation at the great white throne.

what is people do not understand about baptism not being the start of your salvation ? or as important

Water baptism is an act of obedience, an outward display of what's already happened inwardly. Water baptism does not save.

what is it that people do not understand that your own salvation is more important than anyone elses ?

Once we're saved God has instructed us to help the lost, to make disciples of the nations. It's our work as Christians to spread the good news, to lead the lost to Christ, that they may be saved also. We are to be fishers of men. One of the evidences that you are saved is you deeply care for the lost and you want to see them saved also. To question our actions would be to disagree with all the disciples' efforts in preaching Jesus Christ to the world, as us fellow Christians also do to date.

 

[Geometar]

geo in my eyes she would not have been able to survive the holy of holies just being a virgin alone.
more to it than that bro.

It is a mistery as indeed is everything which coming from Him.Human brain isn't capable to understand all things that God revealed to us.Some of them have to be token as they are.

 

[Katy-follower]

there is more important things to be concerned about and that is your own salvation. everything else will be shown to you on your evaluation day

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad

and all means all

You could be leading people astray with this statement. It's too late to wait for an 'evaluation' on judgment day. Salvation is offered now.

Again, once you are saved you are no longer condemned. There are rewards for those saved and judgment/condemnation for those not saved. Unless a person is born again He will not see Heaven.

 

[Rock022]

Quickfire to answer your question why is the Pope the Vicar on earth?

As short an answer as I can but not a water down version.

Trough all the OT we see God has provided structure, a government type structure. Then we see in the NT Jesus gives the keys of heaven to Peter:
Matthew 16
18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he sternly ordered the disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

He did not say I give all my disciples, or those here, He spoke on YOU basis to Peter.

We all know not everything is written and that there are traditions handed down.

When A discrepancy comes about, like we see in the circumcised or not argument in the bible, to avoid a personal interpretation they went to gather in Jerusalem with others and trough prayer and scripture get the right answer. [prayer was not written in the bible, but do you think that they would not had prayed?]

Now, the Pope has infallibility but it is not a constant infallibility as people think. It is only when he is seated in "the chair of Peter" that he is infallible, this "chair" is not an actual chair but a position. This is when the Pope is to talk for the church as in a canon law or belief. This is where my faith in Jesus rests, I truly believe that when the Pope is to speak from the "chair of Peter" Jesus guides him. Other than that is the Pope's free will.

The believe of the blessed virgin Mary's immaculate conception was made by a Pope in the "chair of Peter" but it was also something which was discussed about 1,000 years before this teaching was made valid.

People argue back and forth about what we are to believe but do not have faith that Jesus can and does guide the church. Many arguments we have here today have been discussed, prayed for, died for and validated from "the chair of Peter". But our own pride makes us unbelievers [I too was like this until recently]. How come one man be the "know it all". Well that man it is not the know it all, Jesus is. Jesus guides him when there is a need.

I know many who read this may have a whole bunch of RED flags going around, but I am just trying to explain as simple as I can Quickfire's question. No need to defend your faith I know you guys do not believe the way I do.

 

[quickfire]

@rock 22 thanks for reply WOW

According to the New Testament, Jesus gave Saint Peter (whose given name was Simon) the name Kephas or Cephas meaning "stone" in Aramaic.[2] Saint Peter, according to ancient tradition, became the first bishop of Rome. Roman Catholics consider him to have been the first Pope and all subsequent popes to have been his successors, and therefore sometimes refer to the Pope or the Papacy itself as Peter.

this is interesting stuff . so am i right in thinking then that st peters first true church built by the romans is where the pope sits today in the the seat of st peters.

so what you are basically saying is that st peter title as the main apostle leader has been passed down from pope to pope, is there clear evidence to support this.

 

[quickfire]

The gift of salvation is offered NOW. Once you're dead it's too late to be saved. We are not saved after death. We have until our last breath to accept God's free gift of salvation.

Once you are saved (in this life) you are no longer condemned. Romans 8:1: "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus"

John 5:24: "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life"

2 Cor 5:17: "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new"

Those born again will not face condemnation, just rewards for our work, or lack of, if we were lazy. Those not born again face condemnation at the great white throne.



Water baptism is an act of obedience, an outward display of what's already happened inwardly. Water baptism does not save.



Once we're saved God has instructed us to help the lost, to make disciples of the nations. It's our work as Christians to spread the good news, to lead the lost to Christ, that they may be saved also. We are to be fishers of men. One of the evidences that you are saved is you deeply care for the lost and you want to see them saved also. To question our actions would be to disagree with all the disciples' efforts in preaching Jesus Christ to the world, as us fellow Christians also do to date.

KATY i do not disagree with any of this .

this is something to remember once whether your born again or not
Matthew 12:36 that God will hold men accountable even for the very words they speak. No one is going to escape God's judgment. All evil and good will be accounted for. The best part is that no one will be able to deceive God, nor lie up a storm, for God knows all.

this is why your own salvation is most important because if you are born again does not mean you will get to heaven the bible speaks of that
34 "Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with dissipation, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you unexpectedly like a trap.

35 For it will come upon all those who live on the face of the whole earth.

36 Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man

katy blessings to you and thank you for your help on this matter

 

[Rock022]

Quick fire in this video Fr. Mitch Pacwa explains this chair also known as "see" This is a video of the mass and the Homily [talk] begins at 7:30 minutes. It is better than to type it, you just have to listen.

Link ---> Homily 02-22-2011 - Fr. Mitch Pacwa, SJ - The Chair of St. Peter, Apostle - YouTube <---

Let me know if this one helped better than me typing short answers.

 

[quickfire]

Quick fire in this video Fr. Mitch Pacwa explains this chair also known as "see" This is a video of the mass and the Homily [talk] begins at 7:30 minutes. It is better than to type it, you just have to listen.

Link ---> Homily 02-22-2011 - Fr. Mitch Pacwa, SJ - The Chair of St. Peter, Apostle - YouTube <---

Let me know if this one helped better than me typing short answers.

no rock way of the mark ill look else where for answers thanks.

 

[Rock022]

Understood brother!

There is good knowledge there, but if you do not wish to listen to this man, I can just point out that no empire has lasted as long as the Pope has in the History of the world.

That is because Jesus is guiding it, He built His church on Rock.

Please note I am answering Quickfire's question here, I do not intend this to be an attack of any source.

 

[quickfire]

I understand rock i have i know exactly where your coming from.

I am at a loss i know that st peter was crucified .
Im not so sure Why he would of wanted it upside down. Whether worthy or not because in my eyes he was given the keys to heaven .

I know that when christians did finaly come in force in rome They where given a church in rome and the leader was given the the title bishop of rome , is this right rock22, and if so is this the same church that pope sits into today.

Ps please stop attacking rock22 and me for that matter