misunderstandings between Catholics and Christians

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L

Loco

Guest
Somebody has to read it, or nobody would know what it said! Depending on others to give us the understanding we are to receive from the Holy Spirit of God is a role the Roman Catholic church took upon themselves and forced upon those who depended upon them to rightly divide the Word. Thank God there was rebellion against the RCC when it was discovered the church was being teaching error and holding people in bondage. Of course those who hold to the RCC teachings object to being shown their error. Scripture addresses this.

This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved
darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
You demonstrate how something can be said plainly, clearly and without apology; yet without undue offense.

Christ crucified is offensive enough. We do not need to add anger to it.

The day I believe I have been sanctified enough to unlatch the sandals from a man as great as John the Baptist, on that day I will speak with his vehemence. Yet, the Truth must be proclaimed so I try to do so in a manner that is unashamed but not gratuitously offensive.

I do fail, of course, and I have offended sometimes in anger; but more often in trying to be funny.
 
L

Loco

Guest
So, to be offensive in trying to be funny: He Utah! How many wives are you eternally married to?

It's a Mormon joke...
 
L

Loco

Guest
A heretic put me on ignore! It is indeed a very great day! :cool:

Its what heretics do when they can't handle the Truth! :)
Hey Utah! Would it make it an OK day if a semi-heretic Presbyterean like ME put you on pause?

that's another joke
 
L

Loco

Guest
Hey Utah! Why did the Baptist chicken cross the road? To get her chicks baptized by the Presbyterian.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
57,025
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So, to be offensive in trying to be funny: He Utah! How many wives are you eternally married to?
It's a Mormon joke...
Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven." ;)
 
L

Loco

Guest
Hey Utah! Why did the Presbyterian chicken cross the road to the Baptist revival tent? So she would not die of boredom at the Presbyterian symposium.
 
L

Loco

Guest
Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven." ;)
Sure, while they wait to get their own planet from the council of the Gods (Mormon doctrine is weird, like really, really weird, like a 9 on the Scientology weird-o-meter)
 
L

Loco

Guest
Hey Utah! Why did the charismatic chicken cross the road? When asked she said, "There was a road? I thought it was a vision!"
 
L

Loco

Guest
Hey Utah! Why did the Lutheran chicken cross the road? So drunk it just swerved over it.
 
L

Loco

Guest
Hey Utah! If all truth is in the Scriptures, where does it say why chickens cross roads?
 
L

Loco

Guest
Hey epostle! Why did the RC chicken cross the road. It most certainly did not, as declared in some bull somewhere, there is no road until the Magesterium says there is.
 
L

Loco

Guest
OK, any chickens left to offend?
 
Nov 25, 2014
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It most certainly is the Catholic Church's fault. If the church shared the Truth of God's love and grace rather than wrongfully placing heretical burdens upon the hearts and minds of its parishioners then the people wouldn't live in such despair.

No worries epostle, keep blaming the rape victim rather than the rapist.
This statement of yours is unfair and a little inflammatory as well. Let me explain.

I've been a Christian for many many years. I've heard a lot of testimonies that went like this, "I was raised in XYZ church but I never really heard about/understood/believed in the work of Jesus until I began to go to church ABC." In other words, there are people raised Baptist, for example, that don't really come to know Jesus until they begin to attend a Pentecostal church. Then, the tendency is to look back at the original church to criticize it. "Oooh those Baptist churches are so dry and lacking in the Spirit! I never understood how to live in the Spirit until I left their limited view and became Pentecostal."

Now, I'd be willing to bet that the person had plenty of opportunities to learn about living in the Spirit while they were Baptist, but for some reason it just didn't connect.

By the same token, I think there are lots of Catholics that don't hear the clear message of salvation presented every single week in the Roman Catholic Mass. Trust me, it's totally there. Every week during the Mass we say, "Lord, I am unworthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed." Every week we have an opportunity to repent of sin, we hear readings from the Psalms, OT, NT epistles, and the Gospel. We say the Nicene Creed every week. Seriously, Every. Single. Week. (Cradle Catholics, btw, have to memorize the Our Father, the Nicene Creed, and other prayers). Every week we are reminded about the life, death, and resurrection of Christ. Every week we take communion to participate in this. Every week at the end of every mass we are told to "Go in peace to love AND SERVE the Lord," so we're reminded we need to live out our faith. It's there every single week. I know I am very aware of what I'm saying when I'm in Mass.

I can't explain why some hear and get it and some don't. I can speculate that some maybe disconnect and numb out because it is familiar. Then, when they're in an unfamiliar environment (such as a different sort of church) they suddenly seem to hear it for the first time. I do know from my own experience as a teacher that students have said to me, "You never told us blahblahblah," when I've actually told them, written it on the board, and had them write it on their assignment sheets.

So, while I totally believe your reporting regarding your interactions with Catholics, I'm not sure that the church is to blame. There are simply to many other possible variables. For example, what if these folks identify as Catholics but never were regular attenders? Or what if they were part of the RCC, but their parents didn't really live out an active faith? Or what if they were part of the RCC but their families were abusive? Or what if they were part of the RCC, but they weren't particularly attentive or submissive to the teachings? A lot goes in to shaping what we believe about God. More than just what a particular church might teach. (For example, I've known atheists who were raised in church, but had such chaotic families that they simply presumed that all this "Jesus stuff" is hypocritical and untrue).

Also (and this is no attempt to diminish your experiences), while you've had these experiences with many Catholics, the numbers aren't statistically valid for drawing large conclusions about the church as a whole. There are over 1 billion Catholics. Even if you'd encountered 10,000 Catholics in the situation you describe, that would still only represent 1/100,000ths of all Catholics. So, numbers like that might represent problems within a local parish (if the people were all from the same area), but not the church as a whole.

I know I've observed some really kooky charismatics during my time as a Christian. However 1/4 of all Christians self-identify as "charismatic," so it would be inappropriate of me to presume that "Charismatics are kooky" considering the (actual) small numbers of kooks I've encountered.

So far as "blaming the victim" goes, when it comes to us being spiritually responsible for ourselves, NONE of us are victims. If people resist the clearly available grace of Christ in all its forms, they are to blame. The bible says that even nature reveals God to us, so no man has an excuse.
 
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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
57,025
26,751
113
Sure, while they wait to get their own planet from the council of the Gods (Mormon doctrine is weird, like really, really weird, like a 9 on the Scientology weird-o-meter)
About as weird and unBiblical as saying Mary was born sinless, remained a perpetual virgin after the birth of Jesus, had no other children when Scripture mentions Jesus' brothers and sisters, and saying she never died, was physically assumed to heaven, and intercedes on behalf of people who pray to her instead of Jesus, the only mediator between God and man according to Scripture. Roman Catholics are required to believe two of those non-Scriptural dogmas because the popes have declared them infallible.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
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It most certainly is the Catholic Church's fault. If the church shared the Truth of God's love and grace rather than wrongfully placing heretical burdens upon the hearts and minds of its parishioners then the people wouldn't live in such despair.

No worries epostle, keep blaming the rape victim rather than the rapist.

WTHeck is this?!! :mad:
 
L

Loco

Guest
About as weird and unBiblical as saying Mary was born sinless, remained a perpetual virgin after the birth of Jesus, had no other children when Scripture mentions Jesus' brothers and sisters, and saying she never died, was physically assumed to heaven, and intercedes on behalf of people who pray to her instead of Jesus, the only mediator between God and man according to Scripture. Roman Catholics are required to believe two of those non-Scriptural dogmas because the popes have declared them infallible.
Oh no magenta, trust me on this, the Mormons are weirder, even James White would agree.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
57,025
26,751
113
You demonstrate how something can be said plainly, clearly and without apology; yet without undue offense.

Christ crucified is offensive enough. We do not need to add anger to it.

The day I believe I have been sanctified enough to unlatch the sandals from a man as great as John the Baptist, on that day I will speak with his vehemence. Yet, the Truth must be proclaimed so I try to do so in a manner that is unashamed but not gratuitously offensive.

I do fail, of course, and I have offended sometimes in anger; but more often in trying to be funny.
That is very kind of you to say, thank you. You are relatively new here; welcome to CC! I was mostly absent over Christmas into the new year :)

welcome.gif
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
57,025
26,751
113
Oh no magenta, trust me on this, the Mormons are weirder, even James White would agree.
Saying things like God was once a man as we are (not in reference to Jesus Christ) and that they will likewise be a God as He is, yes, I am aware of some of what they believe. They hold baptisms for dead people. Um, that makes me think of infant baptism, sorry! Baptism is to follow repentance. Neither babies nor dead people can repent...
 
L

Loco

Guest
This statement of yours is unfair and a little inflammatory as well. Let me explain.

I've been a Christian for many many years. I've heard a lot of testimonies that went like this, "I was raised in XYZ church but I never really heard about/understood/believed in the work of Jesus until I began to go to church ABC." In other words, there are people raised Baptist, for example, that don't really come to know Jesus until they begin to attend a Pentecostal church. Then, the tendency is to look back at the original church to criticize it. "Oooh those Baptist churches are so dry and lacking in the Spirit! I never understood how to live in the Spirit until I left their limited view and became Pentecostal."

Now, I'd be willing to bet that the person had plenty of opportunities to learn about living in the Spirit while they were Baptist, but for some reason it just didn't connect.

By the same token, I think there are lots of Catholics that don't hear the clear message of salvation presented every single week in the Roman Catholic Mass. Trust me, it's totally there. Every week during the Mass we say, "Lord, I am unworthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed." Every week we have an opportunity to repent of sin, we hear readings from the Psalms, OT, NT epistles, and the Gospel. We say the Nicene Creed every week. Seriously, Every. Single. Week. (Cradle Catholics, btw, have to memorize the Our Father, the Nicene Creed, and other prayers). Every week we are reminded about the life, death, and resurrection of Christ. Every week we take communion to participate in this. Every week at the end of every mass we are told to "Go in peace to love AND SERVE the Lord," so we're reminded we need to live out our faith. It's there every single week. I know I am very aware of what I'm saying when I'm in Mass.

I can't explain why some hear and get it and some don't. I can speculate that some maybe disconnect and numb out because it is familiar. Then, when they're in an unfamiliar environment (such as a different sort of church) they suddenly seem to hear it for the first time. I do know from my own experience as a teacher that students have said to me, "You never told us blahblahblah," when I've actually told them, written it on the board, and had them write it on their assignment sheets.

So, while I totally believe your reporting regarding your interactions with Catholics, I'm not sure that the church is to blame. There are simply to many other possible variables. For example, what if these folks identify as Catholics but never were regular attenders? Or what if they were part of the RCC, but their parents didn't really live out an active faith? Or what if they were part of the RCC but their families were abusive? Or what if they were part of the RCC, but they weren't particularly attentive or submissive to the teachings? A lot goes in to shaping what we believe about God. More than just what a particular church might teach. (For example, I've known atheists who were raised in church, but had such chaotic families that they simply presumed that all this "Jesus stuff" is hypocritical and untrue).

Also (and this is no attempt to diminish your experiences), while you've had these experiences with many Catholics, the numbers aren't statistically valid for drawing large conclusions about the church as a whole. There are over 1 billion Catholics. Even if you'd encountered 10,000 Catholics in the situation you describe, that would still only represent 1/100,000ths of all Catholics. So, numbers like that might represent problems within a local parish (if the people were all from the same area), but not the church as a whole.

I know I've observed some really kooky charismatics during my time as a Christian. However 1/4 of all Christians self-identify as "charismatic," so it would be inappropriate of me to presume that "Charismatics are kooky" considering the (actual) small numbers of kooks I've encountered.

So far as "blaming the victim" goes, when it comes to us being spiritually responsible for ourselves, NONE of us are victims. If people resist the clearly available grace of Christ in all its forms, they are to blame. The bible says that even nature reveals God to us, so no man has an excuse.
Poetmary, I am not RC. There's a LOT of RC stuff that is contrary to Scripture and when looked at carefully contrary to the Gospel. However, what you wrote is true. My favorite is when in the older type masses they ring a bell, hold up the eucharist and everybody touches their left chest and exclaim in unison, for my fault, because of my fault, for my only fault (or very similar words). At that moment everyone is acknowledging that JC was crucified for their own personal sins.

Look, I am not an RC fan, but in John the question is asked how to know if someone is Christian and the answer is given if they testify rightly to the nature of Christ. It may be simplistic, and I could be wrong, but as long as the RC holds Nicea I won't totally exclude it. For that I get tremendous flak, and I understand why. Much RC doctrine is horrible. However, it's better than, say, Joel Osteem or a lot that gets labeled "evangelical" these days and far better than Protestant mainline Churches like the Anglicans.

Whatever, contra pax Romana, pax Domini Fili