More Scriptural proof of a Pre-trib. Rapture.
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The reason the church isn't mentioned after Chapter 3 is that the church is decimated during Satan's Hour of Temptation AKA, the Great Tribulation. That's why there is a Great Multitude in heaven who "CAME OUT of the Great Tribulation." Keep in mind there will be a great falling away - a great apostasy. This falling away happens
Consider the below passage then I have a question for you.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition...
Try to just consider for a moment that there is no Pre-Trib Rapture and that the Lord returns once, after the Tribulation. I know this is hard but just try to open your mind up for a moment. Now ask yourself this:
Would believers be more likely or less likely to be deceived and fall away if the Rapture doesn't come before the Tribulation??
Consider the below passage then I have a question for you.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition...
Try to just consider for a moment that there is no Pre-Trib Rapture and that the Lord returns once, after the Tribulation. I know this is hard but just try to open your mind up for a moment. Now ask yourself this:
Would believers be more likely or less likely to be deceived and fall away if the Rapture doesn't come before the Tribulation??
All of the Elect are part of the church. However, not all of the church are part of the Elect.
Remember God prefers to do great things through long odds with a small group of followers. That is how God gets all the glory. This is how it was for Joshua and Gideon and it will be how it is in the end.
Judges 7:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And the Lord said unto Gideon, The people that are with thee are too many for me to give the Midianites into their hands, lest Israel vaunt themselves against me, saying, Mine own hand hath saved me.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now therefore go to, proclaim in the ears of the people, saying, Whosoever is fearful and afraid, let him return and depart early from mount Gilead. And there returned of the people twenty and two thousand; and there remained ten thousand.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And the Lord said unto Gideon, The people are yet too many; bring them down unto the water, and I will try them for thee there: and it shall be, that of whom I say unto thee, This shall go with thee, the same shall go with thee; and of whomsoever I say unto thee, This shall not go with thee, the same shall not go.
Remember God prefers to do great things through long odds with a small group of followers. That is how God gets all the glory. This is how it was for Joshua and Gideon and it will be how it is in the end.
Judges 7:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And the Lord said unto Gideon, The people that are with thee are too many for me to give the Midianites into their hands, lest Israel vaunt themselves against me, saying, Mine own hand hath saved me.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now therefore go to, proclaim in the ears of the people, saying, Whosoever is fearful and afraid, let him return and depart early from mount Gilead. And there returned of the people twenty and two thousand; and there remained ten thousand.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And the Lord said unto Gideon, The people are yet too many; bring them down unto the water, and I will try them for thee there: and it shall be, that of whom I say unto thee, This shall go with thee, the same shall go with thee; and of whomsoever I say unto thee, This shall not go with thee, the same shall not go.
Yes, we agree on soteriology, it's on eschatology we do not agree.
And actually, I'm not qualified to paiticipate in such a match as you describe.
Actually, that is not what Am 9:11 states.
It states "In that day," i.e., the day of the Christ, which was future to Amos,
and probably the way the Jews remembered it, not having their own personal scrolls to consult.
And actually, I'm not qualified to paiticipate in such a match as you describe.
Actually, that is not what Am 9:11 states.
It states "In that day," i.e., the day of the Christ, which was future to Amos,
and probably the way the Jews remembered it, not having their own personal scrolls to consult.
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You are assuming a mishmash of facts. The church who is the body of Christ cannot fall away. They are sealed with the Holy Spirit into the day of redemption. There is the church apostate that is falling away but they are not true church only a pretense of church.
The elect in the tribulation is Israel who if the Lord does not return will be wiped from the face of the earth by their enemies. The tribulation is directed at Israel in the same fashion as the captivities of old.
Consider that Israel is apostate and refuses to hear the gospel even now. What will become of them during the tribulation?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The elect in the tribulation is Israel who if the Lord does not return will be wiped from the face of the earth by their enemies. The tribulation is directed at Israel in the same fashion as the captivities of old.
Consider that Israel is apostate and refuses to hear the gospel even now. What will become of them during the tribulation?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Thanks.
1 Thessalonians 1:9-10; - Agreed, Christ will return.
1 Thessalonians 4:1-18; - Jn 6:39-40, 44, 54, 11:24; 1Co 15:52 locate the resurrection of the church in 1Th 4:16 with the trumpet call of God, which Biblically is the summons to judgment (Hos 58-9, 8:1; Am 2:1-2; Zep 1:15-17)
and in the last day, which Biblically is Judgment Day.
The rapture of 1Th 4:17 is sequential to the resurrection of 1Th 4:16 at the Final Judgment,
so 1Th 4:16-17 locates the rapture at the Final Judgment, not before a tribulation.
That 1Th 4:1-18 refers to a pre-trib rapture would be an assumption, because corresponding
texts show that it does not.
1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 - "not appointed to wrath, but to receive salvation"
Paul, here and in 1:10, is referring to the salvation that saves us from the wrath of God
at the Final Judgment, because our sins have already been judged in Christ and forgiven.
There is no meaning of "salvation" from the wrath of God in the NT other than at the Final Judgment.
That 1Th 5:1-11 refers to wrath before the wrath of God from which we are saved at the
Final Judgment would be an assumption.
1 Corinthians 15:35-58 - 1Co 15 locates the resurrection with "the end," when Christ turns over
the kingdom to God the Father (v.24), which is the end of time. The only thing after 1Co 15:35-58 is
eternity in the new heavens and new earth, for time is no more.
John 10:1-6 - Agreed, Jesus is the Good Shepherd.
Philippians 3:15-21; Philippians 4:5; Titus 2:12-13; - Agreed, Christ will return.
Revelation 3:10; Revelation 4:1-2 - Nothing here states a pre-trib rapture.
The above Scriptures do not specifically present a pre-trib rapture.
1 Thessalonians 1:9-10; - Agreed, Christ will return.
1 Thessalonians 4:1-18; - Jn 6:39-40, 44, 54, 11:24; 1Co 15:52 locate the resurrection of the church in 1Th 4:16 with the trumpet call of God, which Biblically is the summons to judgment (Hos 58-9, 8:1; Am 2:1-2; Zep 1:15-17)
and in the last day, which Biblically is Judgment Day.
The rapture of 1Th 4:17 is sequential to the resurrection of 1Th 4:16 at the Final Judgment,
so 1Th 4:16-17 locates the rapture at the Final Judgment, not before a tribulation.
That 1Th 4:1-18 refers to a pre-trib rapture would be an assumption, because corresponding
texts show that it does not.
1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 - "not appointed to wrath, but to receive salvation"
Paul, here and in 1:10, is referring to the salvation that saves us from the wrath of God
at the Final Judgment, because our sins have already been judged in Christ and forgiven.
There is no meaning of "salvation" from the wrath of God in the NT other than at the Final Judgment.
That 1Th 5:1-11 refers to wrath before the wrath of God from which we are saved at the
Final Judgment would be an assumption.
1 Corinthians 15:35-58 - 1Co 15 locates the resurrection with "the end," when Christ turns over
the kingdom to God the Father (v.24), which is the end of time. The only thing after 1Co 15:35-58 is
eternity in the new heavens and new earth, for time is no more.
John 10:1-6 - Agreed, Jesus is the Good Shepherd.
Philippians 3:15-21; Philippians 4:5; Titus 2:12-13; - Agreed, Christ will return.
Revelation 3:10; Revelation 4:1-2 - Nothing here states a pre-trib rapture.
The above Scriptures do not specifically present a pre-trib rapture.
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When you think it through, the problem with that notion is that
it means they thought Paul had missed it also.
For they had received 1Th from Paul discussing the events of the rapture--the Lord's appearance in the air, his loud command, the voice of the archangel, the trumpet call of God, the resurrection of the saints, the catching up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
So if after so recently receiving 1Th from Paul, they thought they had been left behind,
that meant that Paul had been left behind with them.
That the Thessalonians thought Paul had missed the rapture is absurd.
Paul was writing 2Th to correct their view that the rapture was imminent (2:3), as is clearly seen by
1) his emphasis on what must occur (2:3-8) before there will be a rapture (2:1), and
2) his exhortation to get back to work instead of idly waiting for an imminent rapture (3:10-12).
it means they thought Paul had missed it also.
For they had received 1Th from Paul discussing the events of the rapture--the Lord's appearance in the air, his loud command, the voice of the archangel, the trumpet call of God, the resurrection of the saints, the catching up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
So if after so recently receiving 1Th from Paul, they thought they had been left behind,
that meant that Paul had been left behind with them.
That the Thessalonians thought Paul had missed the rapture is absurd.
Paul was writing 2Th to correct their view that the rapture was imminent (2:3), as is clearly seen by
1) his emphasis on what must occur (2:3-8) before there will be a rapture (2:1), and
2) his exhortation to get back to work instead of idly waiting for an imminent rapture (3:10-12).
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A closer reading shows that chp 4 presents the actual events of Christ's second coming,
while chp 5 presents the difference between those who are ready
(sons of light, self-controlled, not in darkness)
and those who are not ready (asleep, dissolute, in darkness) for his coming,
the former not surprised by the thief in the night, for they belong to the day, not the night or darkness,
and the latter being surprised by the thief in the night, who comes while they sleep in their darkness.
A closer reading shows that chps 4-5 are both about the same thing, the Day of the Lord, are one passage, and that trying to separate them into sequential events is a false dividing of the word of God.
while chp 5 presents the difference between those who are ready
(sons of light, self-controlled, not in darkness)
and those who are not ready (asleep, dissolute, in darkness) for his coming,
the former not surprised by the thief in the night, for they belong to the day, not the night or darkness,
and the latter being surprised by the thief in the night, who comes while they sleep in their darkness.
A closer reading shows that chps 4-5 are both about the same thing, the Day of the Lord, are one passage, and that trying to separate them into sequential events is a false dividing of the word of God.
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Paul and Peter tie the following three together into one day...
1. Day of the Lord
2. Day of Christ
3. Day of God
It is the day that Jesus is revealed unto what is left of the world as Jesus is
1. Lord
2. Christ
3. God
There is one moment in the scriptures where all three can be found as being revealed to humanity both saved and lost and also qualifies to the statement (time no more).
At the sounding of the 7th trump of Revelation it is stated by the angel of the Lord that (time should be no more)
At the sounding of the 7th trump of Revelation we find the following things listed
1. Jesus as Lord seizes control over (all) the kingdoms of the earth<---Day of the Lord commences
2. Jesus as Christ rewards the saints, prophets and all who fear him in the Air (Resurrection/Change)<--Day of Christ commences
3. Jesus as God pours out his wrath upon the unbelieving world that has been gathered against Jerusalem and against God by the beast and his followers<----Day of God commences
One God-->One day--->three aspects
All three above continue 1000 years through the duration of the reign of the Son of God the Lion of the Tribe of Judah on the Throne of David
1000 Years Jesus rules as LORD
1000 Years Jesus is Christ as those who acknowledge him as Christ as Lord will be changed<--seems obvious based upon...
1000 Years Jesus as God on throne will (die) accursed being a hundred years old if they reject the Lord Jesus Christ as Lord, Christ and God
It is out of the children that are born from what is left of the nations after the wrath, particularly Israel which repopulates the waste cities that the numbers of those who die (accursed) as opposed to those who believe and are changed come from as well as the great number that no man could number that is gathered by Satan when loosed out of his prison for a little season at the end of the 1000 year reign.
1. Day of the Lord
2. Day of Christ
3. Day of God
It is the day that Jesus is revealed unto what is left of the world as Jesus is
1. Lord
2. Christ
3. God
There is one moment in the scriptures where all three can be found as being revealed to humanity both saved and lost and also qualifies to the statement (time no more).
At the sounding of the 7th trump of Revelation it is stated by the angel of the Lord that (time should be no more)
At the sounding of the 7th trump of Revelation we find the following things listed
1. Jesus as Lord seizes control over (all) the kingdoms of the earth<---Day of the Lord commences
2. Jesus as Christ rewards the saints, prophets and all who fear him in the Air (Resurrection/Change)<--Day of Christ commences
3. Jesus as God pours out his wrath upon the unbelieving world that has been gathered against Jerusalem and against God by the beast and his followers<----Day of God commences
One God-->One day--->three aspects
All three above continue 1000 years through the duration of the reign of the Son of God the Lion of the Tribe of Judah on the Throne of David
1000 Years Jesus rules as LORD
1000 Years Jesus is Christ as those who acknowledge him as Christ as Lord will be changed<--seems obvious based upon...
1000 Years Jesus as God on throne will (die) accursed being a hundred years old if they reject the Lord Jesus Christ as Lord, Christ and God
It is out of the children that are born from what is left of the nations after the wrath, particularly Israel which repopulates the waste cities that the numbers of those who die (accursed) as opposed to those who believe and are changed come from as well as the great number that no man could number that is gathered by Satan when loosed out of his prison for a little season at the end of the 1000 year reign.
Well, in the OT it referred to the complete overthrow of Gentile power and the establishment of Messiah's kingdom (e.g., Isa 13:9-11, 34:8; Dan 2:34, 44; Obad 15).
In the NT (1Th 5:2; 2Th 2:2), it refers to the second coming of Christ at the end of time, and which must be preceded by the events of 2Th 2:3-12.
Yes, the sins of the Church have already been judged in Christ, so there will be no judgment/wrath for the church at the second coming of Christ at the end of time, for she will be with Christ as he descends to earth.
In the NT (1Th 5:2; 2Th 2:2), it refers to the second coming of Christ at the end of time, and which must be preceded by the events of 2Th 2:3-12.
Yes, the sins of the Church have already been judged in Christ, so there will be no judgment/wrath for the church at the second coming of Christ at the end of time, for she will be with Christ as he descends to earth.
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The kingdom is on earth now, invisible (Lk 17:20), within (Lk 17:21) the hearts of those in whom Christ reigns and rules.
The NT didactics present no other earthly kingdom.
Peter, James, John and Paul mention no other earthly kingdom in their letters.
If Paul understood from Jesus that there would a future earthly kingdom, he forgot to tell us about it.
The NT didactics present no other earthly kingdom.
Peter, James, John and Paul mention no other earthly kingdom in their letters.
If Paul understood from Jesus that there would a future earthly kingdom, he forgot to tell us about it.
Dear Friend. The Pre-Trib Rapture Doctrine is fabricated from disjointed passages. There is no clear teaching for your position in the Bible. That is a fact and is irrefutable. The only clear teaching is ONE RETURN AFTER the TRIB. Again, this is an irrefutable fact. Jesus teaches us this clearly in Mat 24 and Mark 13. In fact Jesus could not be clearer if he tattooed it on you.
Again, the Great Tribulation = the Temptation of Satan whereby he tries to convince the world that He is Christ.
You need to try and understand this one point in blue if you can understand nothing else. Satan does this through another entity as Satan is a spiritual being and cannot take human form.
Jesus sets the start of the Great Tribulation at Mat 24:21. Jesus ends the Tribulation lesson at Mat 24:29. If you read the verses in between you will see no mention of wars against Israel or anyone else. The entire lesson deals with False Christ(s) attempting to deceive EVEN THE ELECT. So clearly, the ELECT are there on earth during the Great Tribulation. Again, this is an irrefutable fact!!!!
The Wrath of the Lamb comes AFTER the Tribulation!!! Please see the below passage from Mat 24 to gain the proper context. Please note that verse 29 states we are now AFTER the Tribulation. I want you to look at the below passage from Mat 24 and then Rev 6. I have numbered the events as they are described. They take place in the same order. Don't let the slight difference in descriptions throw you as Matthew wrote the first description and John the second so we have two witnesses recording things as they heard or saw them.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the (1) sun be darkened, and (2) the moon shall not give her light, and the (3) stars shall fall from heaven, and the (4) powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: (5) and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.[SUP]
31 [/SUP]And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Now I want you to compare to the 6th Seal of Rev 6:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and (1) the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and (2) the moon became as blood;
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the (3) stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
[SUP]14 [/SUP](4) And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
[SUP]15 [/SUP](5) And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
The Wrath comes after the Lord is revealed from heaven. It comes AFTER the Tribulation. The Wrath of the Lamb is NOT PART OF THE TRIBULATION!!!
People need to understand that heaven opens and the temple and Arc of the Covenant are seen. We see this in Rev 11:18-19. Obviously there is time for people to run to mountains and caves to hide. Clearly there is recognition that the Lord is coming for some period of time before He actually comes like a lightening flash.
Again, the Great Tribulation = the Temptation of Satan whereby he tries to convince the world that He is Christ.
You need to try and understand this one point in blue if you can understand nothing else. Satan does this through another entity as Satan is a spiritual being and cannot take human form.
Jesus sets the start of the Great Tribulation at Mat 24:21. Jesus ends the Tribulation lesson at Mat 24:29. If you read the verses in between you will see no mention of wars against Israel or anyone else. The entire lesson deals with False Christ(s) attempting to deceive EVEN THE ELECT. So clearly, the ELECT are there on earth during the Great Tribulation. Again, this is an irrefutable fact!!!!
The Wrath of the Lamb comes AFTER the Tribulation!!! Please see the below passage from Mat 24 to gain the proper context. Please note that verse 29 states we are now AFTER the Tribulation. I want you to look at the below passage from Mat 24 and then Rev 6. I have numbered the events as they are described. They take place in the same order. Don't let the slight difference in descriptions throw you as Matthew wrote the first description and John the second so we have two witnesses recording things as they heard or saw them.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the (1) sun be darkened, and (2) the moon shall not give her light, and the (3) stars shall fall from heaven, and the (4) powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: (5) and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.[SUP]
31 [/SUP]And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Now I want you to compare to the 6th Seal of Rev 6:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and (1) the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and (2) the moon became as blood;
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the (3) stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
[SUP]14 [/SUP](4) And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
[SUP]15 [/SUP](5) And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
The Wrath comes after the Lord is revealed from heaven. It comes AFTER the Tribulation. The Wrath of the Lamb is NOT PART OF THE TRIBULATION!!!
People need to understand that heaven opens and the temple and Arc of the Covenant are seen. We see this in Rev 11:18-19. Obviously there is time for people to run to mountains and caves to hide. Clearly there is recognition that the Lord is coming for some period of time before He actually comes like a lightening flash.
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Didn't you just refer to "the complete overthrow of Gentile power and the establishment of Messiah's kingdom"? These Old Testament-envisaged events are not the mission of the church now which is rather to proclaim the Gospel in anticipation of the coming of the Lord for His church (1 Thess. 4). The theme of reigning on the earth is taken up in Revelation.
Your question relates to ANY CHURCH which is considered elect.
Now, Thessalonica is geographically located in Greece.
was Paul referring to the Nation/Land of Israel,the elect Nation? Clearly Not..
was he referring to the people of Israel? (this you will not agree, because it will blow your belief)
So clearly, Paul was referring to the elect of Christ/God as you have implied the differences between the two.
and in his letter to the Thessalonians, Paul shall be part of the resurrection and the catching away. (so he is part of the elect)
To apply your interpretation:
the "elect" in Thessalonians means the people of Christ/God and could be anywhere around the globe, but not the people/land of Israel.
The elect of Matthew 24:
1. Does this mean the Nation of Israel (elect)
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Clearly the "elect" here came from the four winds... from one end of heaven to the other...So it is not talking about the Land/Nation of Israel, because Israel was specifically located.
2. elect as people of Israel
Does the "elect" here means People of Israel...Paul is one of them...and if Paul was in Heaven so that Means Paul will be gathered as well.
So Matthew 24 elect Does not mean..the Nation of Israel...
and If Matthew 24 elect means the People of Israel...Paul shall be part of this gathering...
and If Paul was, part of this gathering then the "Elect of God" in Thessalonians is the same meaning as that of the "elect" in Matthew 24.
Now, Thessalonica is geographically located in Greece.
was Paul referring to the Nation/Land of Israel,the elect Nation? Clearly Not..
was he referring to the people of Israel? (this you will not agree, because it will blow your belief)
So clearly, Paul was referring to the elect of Christ/God as you have implied the differences between the two.
and in his letter to the Thessalonians, Paul shall be part of the resurrection and the catching away. (so he is part of the elect)
To apply your interpretation:
the "elect" in Thessalonians means the people of Christ/God and could be anywhere around the globe, but not the people/land of Israel.
The elect of Matthew 24:
1. Does this mean the Nation of Israel (elect)
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Clearly the "elect" here came from the four winds... from one end of heaven to the other...So it is not talking about the Land/Nation of Israel, because Israel was specifically located.
2. elect as people of Israel
Does the "elect" here means People of Israel...Paul is one of them...and if Paul was in Heaven so that Means Paul will be gathered as well.
So Matthew 24 elect Does not mean..the Nation of Israel...
and If Matthew 24 elect means the People of Israel...Paul shall be part of this gathering...
and If Paul was, part of this gathering then the "Elect of God" in Thessalonians is the same meaning as that of the "elect" in Matthew 24.
Yes Elin, but Satan is still here deceiving and the Great Tribulation is yet a future event. We are still in our physical bodies. So while the Kingdom of God is within His believers, this does not mean there is no millennial reign of Christ on earth. Clearly Christ returns and that there will be a 1,000 year period where Satan is removed and the Lord reigns supreme on earth.
The church which is the bride of Christ is never subject to judgment. The church is never subjected to the wrath of God. What man in his right mind would allow his bride to be attacked until near death before he interceded for her? How can you expect Christ to do any less for His bride the church?
The tribulation and judgment of God is upon Israel who has refused to harken to their God. It is Israel for whom Christ returns at the close of the tribulation. Christ returns to Jerusalem not to any place else. It is Israel who looks up to see Him whom they have pierced.
Interesting that Christ comes down for Israel and the church goes up to meet Christ. Hmmmm.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
The tribulation and judgment of God is upon Israel who has refused to harken to their God. It is Israel for whom Christ returns at the close of the tribulation. Christ returns to Jerusalem not to any place else. It is Israel who looks up to see Him whom they have pierced.
Interesting that Christ comes down for Israel and the church goes up to meet Christ. Hmmmm.
For the cause of Christ
Roger