Must a Christian read the Ten Commandments to Know How God wants them to live?

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Feb 7, 2013
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OK and if I relieve you of your wallet, why is that not love?
Because beloved Mitspa have to consider the commandments of CHRIST, 'love thy enemy' first whether the HOLY SPIRIT have 'shed abroad' in one's heart. Then one will know to love you or beat you in love to teach you a lesson or better love, hand you over to the police. The heart has labored the AGAPE of GOD.

i started adding the word 'AGAPE' and they have 'picked up' on it. What else? Each time they witness our testimony and what their heart likes, they 'pick' and 'choose' them and top it up with their and throw back to us. What a disguised Holy Spirit they posses to deceive.

Shocking faith testimony of the elders, the church have sadly kept them where they should be as how nonbelievers send and kept theirs in 'a home'.


Sorry i am sad and discouraged hearing such 'twisted' doctrine.
 
Feb 7, 2013
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The Love of God would never steal, because it looks to give, not take! This is not hard to figure out ...even human love could help you see that...do you steal from those you love?
Yet one can go on to 'steal' someone's 'love', 'happiness', 'peace', 'privacy', etc.

Even the Pharisees Jews of the 'Torah' know that you know, for it in their hearts too since young. And so you are under the Old Covenant Spirit, till now.
 
Feb 7, 2013
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For those under the law of moses....for those under the law of Christ its breaking the commandment to love.
Sorry to say this, yous do not have the HOLY SPIRIT but the 'spirit of anti-CHRIST disguised as the HOLY SPIRIT.

As it is written and sadly regarding these that;

"GOD is going to send a 'strong delusion' on those who have not welcomed the 'Gospel'."
 
Feb 5, 2015
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fredjames;1920010[B said:
]Sorry to say this, yous do not have the HOLY SPIRIT but the 'spirit of anti-CHRIST disguised as the HOLY SPIRIT. [/B]

As it is written and sadly regarding these that;

"GOD is going to send a 'strong delusion' on those who have not welcomed the 'Gospel'."
I hope you realise the gravity of making such a statement as that. The Pharisees said Jesus cast out demons because he was possessed by Beelzebub, they did not acknowledge Jesus was casting out demons by the power of the Holy Spirit. This was his response:
And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come

Matt12:31&32
 
Feb 7, 2013
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Pretty hard to define sin other than what the Bible says, isn't it?

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

God's Word says sin is the transgression of the Law.

Mitspa says that a Christian knows what sin is without Law.

I gotta go with the Word on this one.
That is why today's Christians are in 'lawlessness', against and violating GOD's New Covenant, given by CHRIST to Christians to 'abide'.

'On that day JESUS surely would reject them, saying; "You workers of lawlessness/iniquity'
 
Feb 7, 2013
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Do you believe Paul is speaking of his life as a Christian in Rom 7:7-11

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.[SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.


When did the commandment first come to Paul? As a Pharisee or as a Christian?

Paul had not known sin but by the law. When did Paul know ''Thou shalt not covet'' was one of the Ten Commandments? As a Pharisee, or not until he became a Christian?

Was Paul the Pharisee or Paul the Christian slain by sin through the commandment?

Did sin use the commandment Thou shalt not covet to condemn him as a Pharisee or as a Christian?

Did sin work all manner of concupiscence in Paul through his knowledge of the commandment Thou shalt not covet' when he was a Pharisee or when he was a Christian?

Come on
In continuation of context, what did he continue to say in chapter 8?
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Sorry to say this, yous do not have the HOLY SPIRIT but the 'spirit of anti-CHRIST disguised as the HOLY SPIRIT.

As it is written and sadly regarding these that;

"GOD is going to send a 'strong delusion' on those who have not welcomed the 'Gospel'."
Jesus describes the sin against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable. The pharisees where quickly going from saying Jesus blasphemed, a man claiming equality with God, which would have been true, if he was not the Messiah, to saying the healings and miracles were done by the Satan. It is clear they simply were not interested in love, and grace, in walking into the Kingdom.

As you are using similar language to them, how interested are you in the Kingdom? I would suggest you have a serious psychological problem, and have latched on to an obscure version of the Gods law and salvation, and call people who disagree with you of the anti-Christ. I do not think this qualifies, as you are nuts....
 
Feb 7, 2013
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Let him who is without sin cast the first stone
This commandment you cleverly quoted from the New Testament, spoken by JESUS and a written 'law'. And you believe and obey them and in faith used them against another.

An so you have 'transgress' using the least 'law' of CHRIST' and according to Apostle Paul in Galatians, he say one who transgress even the least letter of the law, is under a curse'. So you did not transgress that 'law' but he also said, 'if you obey one, you must obey all.'

Then as Apostle Paul said, 'now you have to obey all of the 'law of CHRIST' written in the New Covenant, or you have 'transgressed' against GOD'.
 
Feb 5, 2015
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It reads like you have a sound understanding of faith and are wanting to examine the issue of decipleship, or the walk to maturity and the failures along the way.

It also appears there are some here who actually have abandoned defining what sin is. This is what worries me about some Word of Faith groups, they are not actually christian any more.
Thank you for your kind comment. I think there are two disturbing groups. One stresses holiness without equally stressing the Gospel message of grace. It is like being asked to perform a task without being given the tools to achieve what you have been asked to do. The second group stresses grace(eternal salvation solely by faith in Christ) but does not emphasise Grace is the empowerment to see much victory over sin in your life.
I was brought up in a church where the 'literal letter'' was quoted earnestly as to how you should live your life. The church prided itself on standing full square on the bible. However, I learnt a few years later it had not stood ''full square'' on the bible in forthrightly preaching the message of grace Paul plainly preached. The church emphasised the work of the Holy Spirit and fully believed the gifts of the Spirit are as available today as they were in NT times, but grace in its fullness was not preached.

I remember sitting at home often in the evening wondering why I could not live this almost perfect life being preached/insisted upon every Sunday. What was so wrong with me? I imagined the church folk lived 24/7 as they appeared on a Sunday. I knew I couldn't do that, I imagined I was just a worse sinner than anyone else, and because of that I could not be a Christian.
Fortunately for me God opened my eyes to grace a few years after I left the church.
So I have a disliking for preaching holy living but not equally stressing the Gospel of grace Paul in particular was given to preach.
Someone told me once half the sex addicts in the US have at one time or another been members of ''holiness'' churches. I can easily believe that to be true if alongside stressing Holy living they were not taught the truth of the Gospel message of grace.

It is hard for many to preach sin shall not be your master because you are off the hook, you cannot be condemned for your imperfections. Many it seems take the safer route, one that will bring them less criticism. Inferring saved by grace kept by works. Hence many Christians see little change in their lives, though they earnestly desire it

God Bless
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
Thank you for your kind comment. I think there are two disturbing groups. One stresses holiness without equally stressing the Gospel message of grace. It is like being asked to perform a task without being given the tools to achieve what you have been asked to do. The second group stresses grace(eternal salvation solely by faith in Christ) but does not emphasise Grace is the empowerment to see much victory over sin in your life.
I was brought up in a church where the 'literal letter'' was quoted earnestly as to how you should live your life. The church prided itself on standing full square on the bible. However, I learnt a few years later it had not stood ''full square'' on the bible in forthrightly preaching the message of grace Paul plainly preached. The church emphasised the work of the Holy Spirit and fully believed the gifts of the Spirit are as available today as they were in NT times, but grace in its fullness was not preached.

I remember sitting at home often in the evening wondering why I could not live this almost perfect life being preached/insisted upon every Sunday. What was so wrong with me? I imagined the church folk lived 24/7 as they appeared on a Sunday. I knew I couldn't do that, I imagined I was just a worse sinner than anyone else, and because of that I could not be a Christian.
Fortunately for me God opened my eyes to grace a few years after I left the church.
So I have a disliking for preaching holy living but not equally stressing the Gospel of grace Paul in particular was given to preach.
Someone told me once half the sex addicts in the US have at one time or another been members of ''holiness'' churches. I can easily believe that to be true if alongside stressing Holy living they were not taught the truth of the Gospel message of grace.

It is hard for many to preach sin shall not be your master because you are off the hook, you cannot be condemned for your imperfections. Many it seems take the safer route, one that will bring them less criticism. Inferring saved by grace kept by works. Hence many Christians see little change in their lives, though they earnestly desire it

God Bless
The strength of sin, is the law...the law (legalism) produces sinful passions and desires in the flesh of those under the law...when will folks just believe the bible?
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
Sorry to say this, yous do not have the HOLY SPIRIT but the 'spirit of anti-CHRIST disguised as the HOLY SPIRIT.

As it is written and sadly regarding these that;

"GOD is going to send a 'strong delusion' on those who have not welcomed the 'Gospel'."
You mean like this?

Ga 3:1 ¶ O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
 
Feb 7, 2013
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Hebrews 7:15-19
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Yeah, it looks like you are still missing something.

Your not killing, not stealing, and not committing adultery isn't making you perfect.

Your carnal understanding and carnal "keeping" of the law is not what perfects you.

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

The carnal mind isn't subject to the law of God because it thinks it can perform it. It thinks it must perform it. It doesn't realize that it can't perform the law because it isn't subject to it, neither indeed can be.

Ephesians 2:8-10

[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
As it is written;

"All Scripture are breathed out by GOD and is useful for 'Teaching', 'Rebuking error', 'Correcting faults' and 'Training one in righteousness', so that 'a man of GOD' will be 'fully equipped' and 'fully trained' to do all kind of Good works."

The HOLY SPIRIT inspired the HOLY BIBLE, correct?

Then how does GOD's 'Law of love of the HOLY SPIRIT' get written fully in our hearts?

Did the HOLY SPIRIT take a 'pen' and write them in our hearts or did GOD quicker than a blink of an eye did a heart transplant or even while we were sleeping?

Still want to 'limp on one leg'?

What does the above Scripture quote say and how are they in the first place would get into the hearts of man, so that they will be 'fully equipped' and 'fully trained' in 'love' and they are able to do all kind of Good works of 'AGAPE'?

We have just wasted 'precious time' with 'grandpas' still in their youth, 'rapping'.

Anyone still 'delusional' upon this revelation explanation of the HOLY SPIRIT?
 
Feb 5, 2015
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This commandment you cleverly quoted from the New Testament, spoken by JESUS and a written 'law'. And you believe and obey them and in faith used them against another.

An so you have 'transgress' using the least 'law' of CHRIST' and according to Apostle Paul in Galatians, he say one who transgress even the least letter of the law, is under a curse'. So you did not transgress that 'law' but he also said, 'if you obey one, you must obey all.'

Then as Apostle Paul said, 'now you have to obey all of the 'law of CHRIST' written in the New Covenant, or you have 'transgressed' against GOD'.
[SUP] [/SUP]For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”[SUP][e][/SUP] [SUP]11 [/SUP]Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith. Gal3:10&11

If you rely on works of the law to attain Heaven you are under a curse unless you continue to do everything written in the law. Paul tells us this because the pass mark of obedience to the law to be righteous before God is 100% nothing less. Paul states clearly no one could be justified before God this way.

Paul says all we need is faith working through love. He says carry each others burdens and so fulfil the law of Christ


You still have not confirmed or denied you obey each and every literal command of Christ, why not?
 
Feb 5, 2015
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The strength of sin, is the law...the law (legalism) produces sinful passions and desires in the flesh of those under the law...when will folks just believe the bible?
Its a powerful covenant for those who will accept it. The law God requires you to keep got transferred from an external law written on tablets of stone to an internal law written on tablets of human hearts. Because that is the case the true power of sin(the penalty of sin) was removed from the born again Christians life. Therefore, with sin robbed of its true power in the Christians life they are able to live far more as God desires them to. Christ died to pay the penalty of your sin and to break the power of sin in your life(the penalty of sin)
Hence:

Do we then nullify the law by this faith(a righteousness of faith in Christ not obedience to the law) Not at all! Rather we uphold the law Rom 3:31
 
Feb 24, 2015
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michael56 - There is an interesting issue around sex and sexual desire. We have a culture where "sex" is deemed as fulfilled in one relationship with one individual. The problem is both parties have to agree when and how this is expressed which is often simply not a reality. You therefore have a lot of marriages where love exists but sex is no longer a part of the relationship.
Each individual has to work out how they deal with these issues, but there is no easy answers, and as long as this is internal, sin is not involved, only desire. It is hard for people to accept biological responses are not sinful, it is how you deal with them and actions that result which effect others which are.

A good illustration of this was anger. Someone was driving along and got angry about another driver and what they were doing. Over months, the anger mounted, until an incident happened and the driver found themselves outside their car pounding on the door of another car hurling abuse. The problem was how they dealt with the anger which finally resulted in an inappropriate response.

Many young christians only see the outer working of love and faith, and do not see the inner issues and resolutions, so think it is impossible, and people are so perfect. There are churches who are completely hypocritical, and appear to have made it but it is just a show. Until you get people openning the lid of their own successes and failures, it appears like one is a failure and they are just so different.

I have been married 20+ years but in my heart I have left my wife many times, only to return and fall in love again. The sea of emotion when being lived is all consuming, and appears to give absolute certainty. That is why holding on to the basics and knowing Jesus deeply loves you, brings peace and stability through the storm. But you will not often hear this from people. So I know in part what you are saying, but long ago I abandoned looking at others, and just need to cope with the needs that overwhelm everyday.....

God bless
 
Feb 5, 2015
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michael56 - There is an interesting issue around sex and sexual desire. We have a culture where "sex" is deemed as fulfilled in one relationship with one individual. The problem is both parties have to agree when and how this is expressed which is often simply not a reality. You therefore have a lot of marriages where love exists but sex is no longer a part of the relationship.
Each individual has to work out how they deal with these issues, but there is no easy answers, and as long as this is internal, sin is not involved, only desire. It is hard for people to accept biological responses are not sinful, it is how you deal with them and actions that result which effect others which are.

A good illustration of this was anger. Someone was driving along and got angry about another driver and what they were doing. Over months, the anger mounted, until an incident happened and the driver found themselves outside their car pounding on the door of another car hurling abuse. The problem was how they dealt with the anger which finally resulted in an inappropriate response.

Many young christians only see the outer working of love and faith, and do not see the inner issues and resolutions, so think it is impossible, and people are so perfect. There are churches who are completely hypocritical, and appear to have made it but it is just a show. Until you get people openning the lid of their own successes and failures, it appears like one is a failure and they are just so different.

I have been married 20+ years but in my heart I have left my wife many times, only to return and fall in love again. The sea of emotion when being lived is all consuming, and appears to give absolute certainty. That is why holding on to the basics and knowing Jesus deeply loves you, brings peace and stability through the storm. But you will not often hear this from people. So I know in part what you are saying, but long ago I abandoned looking at others, and just need to cope with the needs that overwhelm everyday.....

God bless

Good post.

We can ask ourselves, what sin is the most likely one to trip us up? Would the answer not be lust?
Paul gave an example of why he had to die to the law. This is what he wrote:

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.[SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Rom 7:7-11

The law came to Paul as a Pharisee. We can take it he is speaking of a time he came of age to make a personal commitment to God. To Paul the Pharisee the law must be obeyed-especially the Ten Commandments or he is condemned. Paul was in earnest as to his religion, of that there can be no doubt. But sin, through Paul's knowledge of the commandment produced in him all manner of concupiscence. If a person today joins a church that stresses holiness, but they do not preach the grace Paul was given to preach, will they not end up in the same position Paul the Pharisee did? They will focus on the law, in order to live a holy life, believing if they cannot obey it they are condemned.
Why would such knowledge arouse all manner of concupiscence in an individual? To me, the penalty of sin, brings great fear of sin, and fear of sin brings much allurement to sin. Basic human nature would suggest that is the case.
A Christian knows God desires them to live a pure and holy life. If they do not believe the grace written in the bible, how will they react to an impure thought? Shock horror in many cases I would suggest.
You would be animated, overwrought,disturbed, nervous, and panic stricken at the thought of sin. The morethese emotions concerning sin overcome you, the more sin will overwhelm you,and the more your ability to resist sin will weaken. Why is this? Because thoseemotions bring you to an excited state. They are all bar panic-strickendefinitions of the word excite. And thedefinition of panic-stricken is “frenzy,”and the definition of frenzy is “wildexcitement.” The emotions that result from your fear of the penalty for sinbring you to a very excited (or aroused) state where sin is concerned. If youlive under the law, therefore, your fear of breaking it (sin) results in sinfulpassions being aroused in you. That is why Paul tells us the law arouses sinfulpassions in us if we live under it. Rom 7:5

So it is not hard to understand the statement that half the sex addicts in the us have at one time or another been members of holiness churches, if those churches did not preach the grace that saved and changed Paul
 
Jan 25, 2015
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Hi Michael, are you aware that the Jews have two sets of laws, the Torah and the Talmud?

If you don't understand it Paul will contradict himself because in the one place he tells you to keep the law (Torah) and then to reject the law (Talmud).
 
Feb 24, 2015
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You reminded me of the idea of not doing something. Do not think about work? There is a contradiction in the idea. Firstly you have to think about it to understand to not think about it, so everytime you remember the idea, you actually make it stronger. This is the problem with compulsive behaviour, or things you tend to do for some unknown reason. The more you try not to do that thing, the more emphasis you put on it.

Some of the most frustrated people are people brought up in arenas where sexual expression is denied, ignored, never talked about or worked through. The dream of many partners, a free open life was their fantasy, as if it made sense. When communities which allowed free open situations, the opposite became true, that the meaninglessness of the relationships and hurt through sexual exploitation, brought a balance to relationships, respect and love matter.

A psychological truth is buried emotion, walled up and denied becomes a lot stronger than people can contain. When it bursts through it is often out of control and destructive. Anger often shows itself like this, or need for affection. These issues lay hidden in many christians though they talk about being saved, they are imprisoned in the denials of their true selves and feelings. This is why I left the 4 spiritual rules and you are saved groups, because this was doctrine often without life. What I came to unfortunately is the conclusion maturity is often a closed book in many pulpits and teachers of theology. In the west often intellectual people are very conceptually wise but emotionally weak. Unless there is more honesty from the heart, much of what is good will be washed away in false criticism, and failed theology.
The word of faith movements are doing exactly that exalting positive elation above basic relationships and life.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
Hi Michael, are you aware that the Jews have two sets of laws, the Torah and the Talmud?

If you don't understand it Paul will contradict himself because in the one place he tells you to keep the law (Torah) and then to reject the law (Talmud).
Paul makes clear to what law he is speaking...

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.