Must we obey the law if we are under grace not law?

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Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#21
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#21
Jackson123 said:
So what is the different between under tha law and under grace?

For example under law

Do not murder

Under grace

Murder not make you to hell because salvation not by work

Is that the different?
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There are truths of the Lord. It is the truth that we cannot make ourselves so perfect that we earn our own salvation that way. That is the truth and it has nothing to do with keeping the law or not keeping the law, that truth stands alone, all by itself. No relation to anything else.

It is the truth that the Lord asks us to repent of sin. It is a separate truth, it is the truth. it is the truth that when we repent of sin and ask forgiveness with faith that we will be forgiven and the Lord has the power to do that, we are forgiven and cleansed of that sin. It is the truth and that truth stands alone, it is simply the truth.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#22
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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#22
Blik said:
There are truths of the Lord. It is the truth that we cannot make ourselves so perfect that we earn our own salvation that way. That is the truth and it has nothing to do with keeping the law or not keeping the law, that truth stands alone, all by itself. No relation to anything else.
Click to expand...
If I correctly understand, you believe salvation nothing to do with whether we keep the law or not, am I correct?

The law say do not murder

Salvation not depend on if you keep murder or not, is that you believe?
 
Journeyman

Journeyman

Well-known member
#23
Jan 10, 2019
2,107
763
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#23
Blik said:
The law in stone tells us not to murder, the law in our hearts tells us not to murder except it defines murder. How do you mean "fulfill the law'? How does this relate to the law?
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Brother, if the law is in our hearts, it should our very soul. We shhould see our own wickedness and desire Gods mercy, not only for ourselves, but for all people, because the law condemns all sinners. As David said,

I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me. Psa.51:3

and,

enter not into judgment with thy servant: for in thy sight shall no man living be justified. Psa.143:2

So the law is fulfilled in leading us to Christ.

Blik said:
One way that the law is fulfilled is that we are forgiven for breaking the law.
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Our Lord said,

whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets. Mt.7:12

If we don't forgive others who have wronged us, we won't be forgiven. I don't need to cote where Jesus said this. You already know it.

Blik said:
Scripture speaks a lot about obedience, how does obedience relate to fulfilling the law?
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When we know we're no better than others and act accordingly (repent, love mercy, etc), we are being obedient to the law.

Blik said:
You give one purpose of the law and you are ignoring loads of scripture giving additional purposes. Have you read the 119th Psalm? It speaks a lot about purposes of the law.
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I've read Psalm 119 many times. Nothing I've said is contrary to it. The psalmist isn't saying, "Im righteous because I do every commandment every day." He's saying, "I keep Gods testimony".....that none are righteous.
 
OrphanedRepublican

OrphanedRepublican

Banned
#24
Apr 26, 2021
495
151
43
#24
Jackson123 said:
If I correctly understand, you believe salvation nothing to do with whether we keep the law or not, am I correct?

The law say do not murder

Salvation not depend on if you keep murder or not, is that you believe?
Click to expand...
Salvation is completely at the sovereign will of God. God performs all the work.

Notice below that Jacob vows a vow, but as you can see, it is God that must perform all the work. If God completes this work within us, he is our God, our Father, our Savior, our Shepherd, our Husband.

Genesis 28:20 And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,

21 So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God:

To come to our father's house in peace is to be saved from judgment. It's all the work and sovereign will of God.
 
OrphanedRepublican

OrphanedRepublican

Banned
#26
Apr 26, 2021
495
151
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#26
Jackson123 said:
So you believe keep murder is save because salvation not by work, am I correct?
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If you are asking if a murderer is safe from God's wrath despite being a murderer, the answer is yes. There are a lot of murderers that are part of the Shepherd's flock.

Murder is a sin or transgression. We know it's unlawful and the law teaches us we are sinners and transgressors. That's an essential component of being transformed from the image of Adam to the image of Christ.

A necessary part of the transformation process is to read and study God's word diligently: Psalm 119:4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently. This brings about knowledge of sin and repentance: Psalm 119:93 I will never forget thy precepts: for with them thou hast quickened me.

Your average mafia hitman or other garden variety murder is not reading God's word. He's stalking his next target.

While the crime of murder is a transgression and a sin whose wages is death (Romans 6:23) there are many murderers who are blessed, conformed into the image of Jesus and is now an undefiled son or daughter of God: Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The sum of the matter is: Psalms 119:1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD. 2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart. 3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.

Romans 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#27
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#27
OrphanedRepublican said:
If you are asking if a murderer is safe from God's wrath despite being a murderer, the answer is yes. There are a lot of murderers that are part of the Shepherd's flock.

Murder is a sin or transgression. We know it's unlawful and the law teaches us we are sinners and transgressors. That's an essential component of being transformed from the image of Adam to the image of Christ.

A necessary part of the transformation process is to read and study God's word diligently: Psalm 119:4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently. This brings about knowledge of sin and repentance: Psalm 119:93 I will never forget thy precepts: for with them thou hast quickened me.

Your average mafia hitman or other garden variety murder is not reading God's word. He's stalking his next target.

While the crime of murder is a transgression and a sin whose wages is death (Romans 6:23) there are many murderers who are blessed, conformed into the image of Jesus and is now an undefiled son or daughter of God: Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The sum of the matter is: Psalms 119:1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD. 2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart. 3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.

Romans 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
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So you believe murderer save if they transform to the image of Jesus or repent, stop murder. Or it doesn't matter keep murder as long as believe and have faith that Jesus is god they are save because salvation not by work but by complete work of Jesus?
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#28
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#28
Jackson123 said:
If I correctly understand, you believe salvation nothing to do with whether we keep the law or not, am I correct?

The law say do not murder

Salvation not depend on if you keep murder or not, is that you believe?
Click to expand...
Instead of trying to make the Lord fit your method of fleshly thinking, why not accept the holy spirit within you and accept the Lord's way of thinking? The lord will forgive the murderer, it is true, but the Lord will not forgive the willful murderer who does not repent.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#29
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#29
Blik said:
Instead of trying to make the Lord fit your method of fleshly thinking, why not accept the holy spirit within you and accept the Lord's way of thinking? The lord will forgive the murderer, it is true, but the Lord will not forgive the willful murderer who does not repent.
Click to expand...
What is the different between murder and willful murderer?
 
OrphanedRepublican

OrphanedRepublican

Banned
#30
Apr 26, 2021
495
151
43
#30
Jackson123 said:
So you believe murderer save if they transform to the image of Jesus or repent, stop murder. Or it doesn't matter keep murder as long as believe and have faith that Jesus is god they are save because salvation not by work but by complete work of Jesus?
Click to expand...
A murder is safe if they're transformed into the image of Jesus. They will no longer commit murder if that's the case.
 
TMS

TMS

Senior Member
#31
Mar 21, 2015
3,923
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Australia
#31
Jackson123 said:
It need more specific explanation

There are 2 believed
1. God forgive sin by faith, mean no matter what you do, example, keep rob the bank and murder still save, because forgiveb
N by faith not by work

2. Forgiven by faith, but must stop sinning or lost salvation.

Which is your believed
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Justification is imputed righteousness. = The righteousness of Jesus is given to us, we are seen as perfect, and without sin.
It only takes one sin and we are lost, we need to be spotless to enter heaven, no sin will enter heaven. Praise God Jesus will give us His perfect righteousness if we confess and repent by Faith. So no matter what sins you have done there is a way to be forgiven and freed.

Sanctification is imparted righteousness = Is when Jesus enables and empowers us to overcome sin by faith in His power. We Let Jesus do what we can not do ourselves. We surrender our will to His. By faith in Jesus and the power of the Holy Spirit we can overcome sin.
By faith we can stop sinning. but the more Jesus reveals himself the more sinful i realise i am.

Jesus came to free (save) us from sin not free (save) us to sin.

Sin is defined by the law.
 
TMS

TMS

Senior Member
#32
Mar 21, 2015
3,923
1,254
113
Australia
#32
Jackson123 said:
So what is the different between under tha law and under grace?

For example under law

Do not murder

Under grace

Murder not make you to hell because salvation not by work

Is that the different?
Click to expand...
When you are under the law you are held by the conditions of the law.

the law states that if you break it you will die eternally.

we are free from these conditions because Jesus died it for us.
we are now under Gods grace,

do we abuse this grace and say God has paid the price, i'm going to continue in sin that grace may abound.

Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
 
Jocund

Jocund

Banned
#33
Jan 14, 2021
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#33
"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill." - Matthew 5:16-22

"All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not." - 1 Corinthians 10:23

"For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." - Galatians 5:14
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#34
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
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#34
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#35
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#35
OrphanedRepublican said:
A murder is safe if they're transformed into the image of Jesus. They will no longer commit murder if that's the case.
Click to expand...
In my country I listen debate between Islam and christian

Islan accused Christian encourage crime, because believe salvation by grace, no matter what you do as long as you believe that Jesus is a God than you are save. In this case why don't we rob the bank for living, anyway Jesus forgive our sin.
And some Christian believe that, no matter what you do if you believe in Jesus you are save, you may not get big reward if you keep murder but you go to heaven.
 
OrphanedRepublican

OrphanedRepublican

Banned
#36
Apr 26, 2021
495
151
43
#36
Jackson123 said:
In my country I listen debate between Islam and christian

Islan accused Christian encourage crime, because believe salvation by grace, no matter what you do as long as you believe that Jesus is a God than you are save. In this case why don't we rob the bank for living, anyway Jesus forgive our sin.
And some Christian believe that, no matter what you do if you believe in Jesus you are save, you may not get big reward if you keep murder but you go to heaven.
Click to expand...
Muslims do not understand Christian doctrine. They don't know what they believe.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#37
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
113
#37
People of all religions are always killing in the name of their god. This is because they have yet to know the Living and Eternal God. Praise Jesus-Yeshua.
 
Jocund

Jocund

Banned
#39
Jan 14, 2021
1,599
526
113
#39
Jackson123 said:
In my country I listen debate between Islam and christian

Islan accused Christian encourage crime, because believe salvation by grace, no matter what you do as long as you believe that Jesus is a God than you are save. In this case why don't we rob the bank for living, anyway Jesus forgive our sin.
And some Christian believe that, no matter what you do if you believe in Jesus you are save, you may not get big reward if you keep murder but you go to heaven.
Click to expand...
"Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." - Galatians 5:21
 
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