Must we obey the law if we are under grace not law?

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Mar 4, 2020
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#41
Galatians 2:20-21
20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#42
We CAN"T obey the law. It requires perfection. Only one man has ever fulfilled this requirement.

Sorry to the OP. You are not him.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,878
5,622
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#43
Rom_6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

When we are freed from our sins through grace we accept Christ within. Christ cannot live with sin, if we still want to sin we cannot have Christ within. We know that being human, our flesh leads us to sin, but Christ in His mercy simply asks us to repent of sin, and if we repent we do not want to sin.

Hebrews 10:26-31 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
yes repentance is indeed imperative . I feel as if many don’t really understand what repentance is biblically . Some carry a message “repent or die “ and then interpret repentance to mean “you must become sinless or your lost forever “

other carry a message that repentance is not necassary and a “work for salvstion “ but scriptirally repentance is about how we react once we have connotes a sin and become aware of it .

Christians aren’t sinless humans , but we are sinful humans who have been shown the light and the light has shown us that sin is against us , it’s trying to destroy our souls , it’s poison and a deceiver . Sin is an assassin , a liar and most enlightening sin is the will of Satan for us

when the light starts to shine in our faith things like this illuminate our understanding and offer a direction and path out of the devils snare

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

whether of sin unto death,

or of obedience unto righteousness?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:16‬ ‭

this is light because it’s revealing to sinners the truth about thier own deeds and who their commitment is to it begins to show us repentance and instill repentance in our thoughts and belief in our faith repentance comes as the light begins to shine
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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#44
"Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." - Galatians 5:21
That is what Muslim misunderstod, they think as long as we believe Jesus is god than murder is save because salvation by faith not by work

Yes murder save if they repent and stop murder.

Salvation by faith not by work, it doesn't mean don't need repent
 

Ogom

Active member
Aug 22, 2020
385
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ogom.co
#46
We CAN"T obey the law. It requires perfection. Only one man has ever fulfilled this requirement.
23But Jesus turned and said to Peter,Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me. For you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men.” 24Then Jesus told His disciples, “If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me. 25For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.…

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Mark 8:34
And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Mark 10:21
Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#47
23But Jesus turned and said to Peter,Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me. For you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men.” 24Then Jesus told His disciples, “If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me. 25For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.…

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Mark 8:34
And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Mark 10:21
Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
Sorry bro, but that passage does not tell me I can keep the law as required by Moses
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,325
13,713
113
#48
23But Jesus turned and said to Peter,Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me. For you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men.” 24Then Jesus told His disciples, “If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me. 25For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.…

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Mark 8:34
And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Mark 10:21
Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
When everything is important, nothing is important. Your post just comes across like you're yelling.
 

Tararose

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2020
753
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Uk
www.101christiansocialnetwork.com
#49
For it is God who works in us, both to will and to do His good pleasure, so that no man may boast.
He who began a good work in you shall perfect it.
We are being conformed daily into the image of Christ.

The Law made no one righteous. But it is the power of God at work in us that bears the fruits of the Holy Spirit, this alone is the sign of a true believer.

We cling to Him who is everything, for we are nothing without Him, and no good thing dwells in this flesh other than His Spirit.

Becoming a believer means we are in hidden in the righteous one, and only the unrighteous require a law.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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#50
We cling to Him who is everything, for we are nothing without Him, and no good thing dwells in this flesh other than His Spirit.
So you believe when we cling to Him, we change( from murder to lover) or as long as we cling to Him, murder is OK because salvation not by work but by faith?
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
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#51
Rom_6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

When we are freed from our sins through grace we accept Christ within. Christ cannot live with sin, if we still want to sin we cannot have Christ within. We know that being human, our flesh leads us to sin, but Christ in His mercy simply asks us to repent of sin, and if we repent we do not want to sin.

Hebrews 10:26-31 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
Romans 3:21KJV
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

James 2:17-26KJV
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
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#52
Galatians 2:20-21
20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Romans 3:21KJV
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

James 2:17-26KJV
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#53
Romans 3:21KJV
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

James 2:17-26KJV
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
The law in the sense religious ritual, like animal sacrifice, circumcisian, etc is no longer valid, but the law of love, like love your God is still valid
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
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#54
The law in the sense religious ritual, like animal sacrifice, circumcisian, etc is no longer valid, but the law of love, like love your God is still valid
The 10 commandments are still valid
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#55
Everyone forgets, the law of commands written on stone on my Sinai are the ministers of death, because cursed is the one who does not confirm and obey every word

the commands are given to lead us to Christ, not make us righteous. If we keep every command our whole life yet stumble in just one, we are guilty of all.

Jesus is the only man who kept them as required, have his righteousness imputed to you in faith, if you try to get to him by your own righteousness, you will (have already) fail
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
#56
Everyone forgets, the law of commands written on stone on my Sinai are the ministers of death, because cursed is the one who does not confirm and obey every word

the commands are given to lead us to Christ, not make us righteous. If we keep every command our whole life yet stumble in just one, we are guilty of all.

Jesus is the only man who kept them as required, have his righteousness imputed to you in faith, if you try to get to him by your own righteousness, you will (have already) fail
The 10 commandments are alive today, and apply to all mankind

John 14:14-15KJV
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Revelation 14:12KJV
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Exodus 20:1-17KJV
1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#57
the 10 commands are valid

Break one and your cursed. With no hope of salvation. No matter how many more you break.. In fact each time you break one, You have a death penalty attached to you. So imagine how many death penalties you have charged to your account.

Thats why we are not under law but Grace. The law condemns where grace brings victory IN CHRIST
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
#58
The 10 commandments are still valid
This is valid law, greater then 10 commandment


Matthew 22:36-40

King James Version



36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
#59
the 10 commands are valid

Break one and your cursed. With no hope of salvation. No matter how many more you break.. In fact each time you break one, You have a death penalty attached to you. So imagine how many death penalties you have charged to your account.

Thats why we are not under law but Grace. The law condemns where grace brings victory IN CHRIST
Your claim is false, if a person breaks a commandment, Example (Uses God's Name In Vain) he repents, just as any other sin

The law in ordinances has been done away with, clean and unclean food, circumcision, etc

The 10 commandments are alive and well, and apply to the Church.


1 John 2:1KJV
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1 John 1:9KJV
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
#60
This is valid law, greater then 10 commandment


Matthew 22:36-40

King James Version



36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Dosent look like Jesus Abolished The 10 Commandments Below, he defined and strengthened them

Matthew 19:16-20KJV
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

Matthew 5:19-48KJV
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.