My take on water baptism...

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Jun 15, 2020
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What a comedian you are. Disrespecting the ordinance of water baptism and talking down to others while doing so. Hilarious. Enjoy the god you have created in your image.
Talking down? If the shoe fits!!!!
 
Jun 15, 2020
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i understand and agree that the baptism which is effectual is not the one done by human hands but by the hand of God. this, Simon Peter also understood at Cornelius' house, when he saw that the Spirit was poured out on unbaptized Gentiles the moment they believed -- but that apostle found it ludicrous to withhold water when he saw what God had done.

Paul also understood this when he wrote explaining that the circumcision which is effectual is likewise not the one by the hands of men, but the cutting of the heart by the hand of God. God also understands this, yet He commanded Abraham, and He commanded all the Israelites in the law, to do this in the flesh.

i agree that in our day, H2O immersion can be just as much a hypocrite's idol and a snare as circumcision was when Paul wrote Galatians. i think, however, that in terms of this thread topic, our time is better served in establishing that the keeping of this sign when it is not of faith may be as damning as taking the cup of communion "in an unworthy manner" -- as sending a message by the hand of a fool ((Prov. 26:6)). i do not believe you have a case for the claim that H2O immersion was not practiced by the disciples or the early church:
(1) it seems clear to me that Acts 10 is a definite counterexample
(2) there is abundant historical evidence of its early practice in terms of a continuation of those things passed down by the apostles
(3) just because you don't see the word "water" in Paul's epistles doesn't mean he did not teach it -- his epistles when they mention baptism are expository, speaking of the meaning of the signs, meant to instruct in wisdom, and he makes distinction between 'immersion' and being filled with the Spirit. a clear example is 1 Cor. 1:14 -- he himself baptized some -- compared with later in the same epistle, 1 Cor. 12:11-14, where he indicates that all of us are baptized by the Spirit - the Spirit's own work. throughout the NT the disciples laid hands on people in prayer, that they might receive the Spirit - a different action than baptism.


i see Acts 10 as an insurmountable hurdle for your argument -- not for the argument that H2O immersion by the hands of men is neither strictly necessary nor sufficient unto salvation, but for the argument you made that the apostles & the church never practiced it after pentecost.
It's impossible for the Church of God to have a doctrine of water baptism. Your Bible would fall apart if it did. Water has nothing to do with those who are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (in his authority).
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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It's impossible for the Church of God to have a doctrine of water baptism. Your Bible would fall apart if it did. Water has nothing to do with those who are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (in his authority).

what does water symbolize in scripture? and being immersed in it / passing through it?

i mean, why water -- why wasn't John sprinkling dust over people's heads, or rubbing figs on their feet or something?
why was Naaman healed by dipping 7 times in the Jor-Dan, the river flowing from Dan to the Dead Sea? why not stand on his head and recite a psalm, or give a burnt offering etc ?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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WOW.....are you saying if we follow God's commands...that is works?
Why do people keep insisting this

if your obeying them out of gratitude and love and expect nothing in return, it is works of righteousness. And will be rewarded

if your obeying them because your trying to gain or maintain your salvation it is works of self, because your trying to gain things for self,

as scripture says, “not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by HIS MERCY. He saved us, (titus 3: 5)

and we have been saved by grace through faith, not of works, but we are created anew, to perform works, (Eph 2: 8-10)
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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I have no idea how you get self righteousness out of a statement saying the church of God started after the Lord was resurrected out from among the dead. No clue.
Its obvious the body of Christ, His bride began in Genesis .

That's it. You have no clue . Abel the first member of the chaste virgin bride of Christ the church as a martyr, apostle, and prophet came long before Stephen in who you build upon. Why destroy the foundations of the righteous of Christ. No man can be found with a righteousness of one self.

Psalm 11:3 If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?
 
Jun 15, 2020
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Its obvious the body of Christ, His bride began in Genesis .

That's it. You have no clue . Abel the first member of the chaste virgin bride of Christ the church as a martyr, apostle, and prophet came long before Stephen in who you build upon. Why destroy the foundations of the righteous of Christ. No man can be found with a righteousness of one self.

Psalm 11:3 If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?
We are not even on the same page. I teach Christ and you call him Stephen. Yep, we do not agree on how the Bible should be understood.
 
Jun 15, 2020
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what does water symbolize in scripture? and being immersed in it / passing through it?

i mean, why water -- why wasn't John sprinkling dust over people's heads, or rubbing figs on their feet or something?
why was Naaman healed by dipping 7 times in the Jor-Dan, the river flowing from Dan to the Dead Sea? why not stand on his head and recite a psalm, or give a burnt offering etc ?
John was long dead by the time Christ was resurrected and Christians for the first time were baptized in the name (authority) of Jesus Christ.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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John was long dead by the time Christ was resurrected and Christians for the first time were baptized in the name (authority) of Jesus Christ.
really don't see how that's even an attempt at answering my question??
so i will repeat:



what does water symbolize in scripture? and being immersed in it / passing through it?

i mean, why water -- why wasn't John sprinkling dust over people's heads, or rubbing figs on their feet or something?
why was Naaman healed by dipping 7 times in the Jor-Dan, the river flowing from Dan to the Dead Sea? why not stand on his head and recite a psalm, or give a burnt offering etc ?
 
Jun 15, 2020
622
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really don't see how that's even an attempt at answering my question??
so i will repeat:



what does water symbolize in scripture? and being immersed in it / passing through it?

i mean, why water -- why wasn't John sprinkling dust over people's heads, or rubbing figs on their feet or something?
why was Naaman healed by dipping 7 times in the Jor-Dan, the river flowing from Dan to the Dead Sea? why not stand on his head and recite a psalm, or give a burnt offering etc ?
John has nothing to do with the gospel of Christ. Why can't you understand what I say? Because what I tell you is spiritual and you are looking at what is carnal. And so you cannot understand. You simply cannot understand what is spiritual through carnal thinking.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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John has nothing to do with the gospel of Christ. Why can't you understand what I say? Because what I tell you is spiritual and you are looking at what is carnal. And so you cannot understand. You simply cannot understand what is spiritual through carnal thinking.
If you can't make your point without demeaning another person, your point is not worth making.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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John has nothing to do with the gospel of Christ. Why can't you understand what I say? Because what I tell you is spiritual and you are looking at what is carnal. And so you cannot understand. You simply cannot understand what is spiritual through carnal thinking.
okay, what about answering my question?

here i'll post it again:

what does water symbolize in scripture? and being immersed in it / passing through it?
i mean, why water -- why wasn't John sprinkling dust over people's heads, or rubbing figs on their feet or something?
why was Naaman healed by dipping 7 times in the Jor-Dan, the river flowing from Dan to the Dead Sea? why not stand on his head and recite a psalm, or give a burnt offering etc ?

 
Jun 15, 2020
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okay, what about answering my question?

here i'll post it again:

what does water symbolize in scripture? and being immersed in it / passing through it?
i mean, why water -- why wasn't John sprinkling dust over people's heads, or rubbing figs on their feet or something?
why was Naaman healed by dipping 7 times in the Jor-Dan, the river flowing from Dan to the Dead Sea? why not stand on his head and recite a psalm, or give a burnt offering etc ?
In the New Testament... Water means Nothing. And that's why it's not taught in any of the Church Epistles.
 
Jun 15, 2020
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If you can't make your point without demeaning another person, your point is not worth making.
I do make my point. Over and over and yet you guys still can't understand. It can only be because I speak about what is spiritual and that's why it's not understood. Water baptism has nothing to do with the New Testament and that is why it's not taught in any of the Church Epistles. If you can't understand thst it's not because I am not communicating properly.
 
Mar 21, 2009
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I do make my point. Over and over and yet you guys still can't understand. It can only be because I speak about what is spiritual and that's why it's not understood. Water baptism has nothing to do with the New Testament and that is why it's not taught in any of the Church Epistles. If you can't understand thst it's not because I am not communicating properly.
Or.. you are wrong. There is that!
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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I do make my point. Over and over and yet you guys still can't understand. It can only be because I speak about what is spiritual and that's why it's not understood. Water baptism has nothing to do with the New Testament and that is why it's not taught in any of the Church Epistles. If you can't understand thst it's not because I am not communicating properly.
I'm not "you guys". We are each individuals, and what one person believes cannot be attributed to another.

You are arrogant, claiming that you speak about what is spiritual and that "we" don't understand. It's far more likely that you're out to lunch, and that what you think is the truth is actually deception.

Again, if you are unable to make your point without criticizing others, demeaning them, implying that they are inferior to you, or are just plain 'carnal', your point is not worth making. This is a Christian discussion site, not an "I'm better than you and I'm going to make damn sure that you know it" site.

I had you pegged with your first couple of posts. I questioned your beliefs, and you didn't respond. You'll be banned soon enough.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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In the New Testament... Water means Nothing.
really?

. . . that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word . . .
(Ephesians 5:26)
that's meaningless? huh. weird.

but you're still not giving an answer to my questions.
i really did have a reason for asking them.
here; i'll post them a fourth time:


  • what does water symbolize in scripture? and being immersed in it / passing through it?
  • i mean, why water -- why wasn't John sprinkling dust over people's heads, or rubbing figs on their feet or something?
  • why was Naaman healed by dipping 7 times in the Jor-Dan, the river flowing from Dan to the Dead Sea? why not stand on his head and recite a psalm, or give a burnt offering etc ?

if you don't understand the meaning & significance of water in scripture that's cool just say so.
perfectly understandable that you may have no spiritual knowledge of this, given your antagonistic position on water.
 
Jun 15, 2020
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really?

. . . that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word . . .
(Ephesians 5:26)
that's meaningless? huh. weird.

but you're still not giving an answer to my questions.
i really did have a reason for asking them.
here; i'll post them a fourth time:


  • what does water symbolize in scripture? and being immersed in it / passing through it?
  • i mean, why water -- why wasn't John sprinkling dust over people's heads, or rubbing figs on their feet or something?
  • why was Naaman healed by dipping 7 times in the Jor-Dan, the river flowing from Dan to the Dead Sea? why not stand on his head and recite a psalm, or give a burnt offering etc ?
if you don't understand the meaning & significance of water in scripture that's cool just say so.
perfectly understandable that you may have no spiritual knowledge of this, given your antagonistic position on water.
And Ephesians 5:26 means what? Is Christ washing the church with water? Is that why it rains when I go to church? I'm not answeing your question because you want me to explain old testament concepts with new testament answers and when I tell you I speak about what concerns the spirit and you speak about old testament laws is when you get mad.