Mystery, Babylon the Great - earthly Jerusalem?
- Thread starter zone
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
nonsense. as usual.
you're in contortions getting it to be anything BUT jerusalem.
doomed to fail.
.....
did you ever ask your LCMS about your slanderous claim about excommunication from LCMS?
i did. i'll post Synod's answer for you.
maybe. prolly not worth it.
it's you who should rethink LCMS. not a good fit for you if you think it's a cult.
you're in contortions getting it to be anything BUT jerusalem.
doomed to fail.
.....
did you ever ask your LCMS about your slanderous claim about excommunication from LCMS?
i did. i'll post Synod's answer for you.
maybe. prolly not worth it.
it's you who should rethink LCMS. not a good fit for you if you think it's a cult.
Re: Mystery, Babylon the Great - earthly Jerusalem?
Daniel 9
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Re: Mystery, Babylon the Great - earthly Jerusalem?
Daniel 9
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Re: Mystery, Babylon the Great - earthly Jerusalem?
R
believing the epistle to the hebrews when it says jesus was crucified outside the city gate is not a 'contortion'...believing the gospel according to john when it says jesus was crucified -near- and therefore -not in- jerusalem is not a 'contortion'
the 'contortions' are when -you- grab old testament quotations that -don't match- the passages from revelation and call them 'direct quotations'...and when you make your completely inane assertions that 'outside jerusalem is still jerusalem'
i am not an LCMS member...as i have already indicated...and that is probably a good thing if the LCMS allows fake lutherans and false teachers like you to spread another gospel in their midst...
the 'contortions' are when -you- grab old testament quotations that -don't match- the passages from revelation and call them 'direct quotations'...and when you make your completely inane assertions that 'outside jerusalem is still jerusalem'
i am not an LCMS member...as i have already indicated...and that is probably a good thing if the LCMS allows fake lutherans and false teachers like you to spread another gospel in their midst...
R
'islam hating' has nothing to do with rejecting your false doctrine about mystery babylon...your false doctrine is rejected because scripture contradicts it...
and i don't know of -any- christian who rejects your 'mystery jerusalem' theory who also denies that christ was actually crucified...so connecting the scripture view of mystery babylon with the islamic denial of christ's crucifixion is just dishonest and slanderous...
which is exactly what i have come to expect from you...zero fruits of the spirit...
and i don't know of -any- christian who rejects your 'mystery jerusalem' theory who also denies that christ was actually crucified...so connecting the scripture view of mystery babylon with the islamic denial of christ's crucifixion is just dishonest and slanderous...
which is exactly what i have come to expect from you...zero fruits of the spirit...
a poll?
among primarily dispenationalists?
"i'm losing"? LOL.
i don't care if i'm the only one here.
scripture makes it exceeding clear Mystery Babylon was 1st century Jerusalem; The Talmudic Religion of the Pharisees; and those jews and gentiles who together CRUCIFIED THE LORD OF GLORY.
you do what you want with it.
the one thing you can't do is change it
among primarily dispenationalists?
"i'm losing"? LOL.
i don't care if i'm the only one here.
scripture makes it exceeding clear Mystery Babylon was 1st century Jerusalem; The Talmudic Religion of the Pharisees; and those jews and gentiles who together CRUCIFIED THE LORD OF GLORY.
you do what you want with it.
the one thing you can't do is change it
blah blah blah 'slanderous'.
no, that would be you accusing people who stick to what scripture says in spite of your tragic efforts to connect actually being faithful to what revelation says (not to mention every other passage that predicts the Messiahs' coming and rejection by the very people He was sent to).... to lusting for extermination of jews; you name it. you've tried it.
accusations of the more bizarre sort - just more signs that you do not know the scriptures.
and it's more evident ever time you post contrary to everything Jesus Himself said.
i can't help it if you don't understand outside the camp.
no, that would be you accusing people who stick to what scripture says in spite of your tragic efforts to connect actually being faithful to what revelation says (not to mention every other passage that predicts the Messiahs' coming and rejection by the very people He was sent to).... to lusting for extermination of jews; you name it. you've tried it.
accusations of the more bizarre sort
- just more signs that you do not know the scriptures.and it's more evident ever time you post contrary to everything Jesus Himself said.
i can't help it if you don't understand outside the camp.
did ya wanna see the letter from Synod?
false gospel? which false gospel is that?
that everybody in the world except you knows where this is:
Revelation 11:8
and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.
Isaiah 1:9
Unless the LORD Almighty had left us some survivors, we would have become like Sodom, we would have been like Gomorrah.
Jeremiah 23:14
And among the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen something horrible: They commit adultery and live a lie. They strengthen the hands of evildoers, so that not one of them turns from their wickedness. They are all like Sodom to me; the people of Jerusalem are like Gomorrah."
Ezekiel 16:46
Your older sister was Samaria, who lived to the north of you with her daughters; and your younger sister, who lived to the south of you with her daughters, was Sodom.
Ezekiel 23:3
They became prostitutes in Egypt, engaging in prostitution from their youth. In that land their breasts were fondled and their virgin bosoms caressed.
noooooo.......Israel's prophets were speaking of the 21st century apostate world-church-mystical-non-city.
because Rachel doesn't understand outside the camp.
k......bored now.
false gospel? which false gospel is that?
that everybody in the world except you knows where this is:
Revelation 11:8
and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.
Isaiah 1:9
Unless the LORD Almighty had left us some survivors, we would have become like Sodom, we would have been like Gomorrah.
Jeremiah 23:14
And among the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen something horrible: They commit adultery and live a lie. They strengthen the hands of evildoers, so that not one of them turns from their wickedness. They are all like Sodom to me; the people of Jerusalem are like Gomorrah."
Ezekiel 16:46
Your older sister was Samaria, who lived to the north of you with her daughters; and your younger sister, who lived to the south of you with her daughters, was Sodom.
Ezekiel 23:3
They became prostitutes in Egypt, engaging in prostitution from their youth. In that land their breasts were fondled and their virgin bosoms caressed.
noooooo.......Israel's prophets were speaking of the 21st century apostate world-church-mystical-non-city.
because Rachel doesn't understand outside the camp.
k......bored now.
R
a poll?
among primarily dispenationalists?
"i'm losing"? LOL.
i don't care if i'm the only one here.
scripture makes it exceeding clear Mystery Babylon was 1st century Jerusalem; The Talmudic Religion of the Pharisees; and those jews and gentiles who together CRUCIFIED THE LORD OF GLORY.
you do what you want with it.
the one thing you can't do is change it
among primarily dispenationalists?
"i'm losing"? LOL.
i don't care if i'm the only one here.
scripture makes it exceeding clear Mystery Babylon was 1st century Jerusalem; The Talmudic Religion of the Pharisees; and those jews and gentiles who together CRUCIFIED THE LORD OF GLORY.
you do what you want with it.
the one thing you can't do is change it
scriptures that you have been shown numerous times make it completely clear that mystery babylon is -not- jerusalem...christ was crucified -outside- jerusalem...and jerusalem does -not- contain the blood of all people slain on earth...
it doesn't fit...but then you are not going to let God's word stop you...you have an agenda to promote that supersedes all other considerations including the gospel itself...
and as you revealed near the end of your post...your agenda is all about making sure God hates the jewish people as much as you do...that way you can justify what jesus identified as the sin of murder in your heart...
and you, dear, still do not understand WHY that generation was held to account - they had the HISTORY.
and still killed the prophets, and conspired with the Romans to kill the Lord.
sorry you don't like the Bible and what it says
you're going to have a hard time finding ANY city - mystical or otherwise held to account FOR ALL INNOCENT BLOOD SHED UPON THE EARTH FROM THE BEGINNING TO THE END...particulary one specfically identified as WHERE THE LORD was crucified.
name one:
church
rome
new york
blah blah..
you can't even read the dialogue between Jesus and the Pharisees and see it.
those weren't popes or roman soldiers or evangelicals He was talking to.
such a waste of time.
you'll never get anywhere with your "theory"
because it's antiscriptural.
you don't understand it.
sorry for you
and still killed the prophets, and conspired with the Romans to kill the Lord.
sorry you don't like the Bible and what it says
you're going to have a hard time finding ANY city - mystical or otherwise held to account FOR ALL INNOCENT BLOOD SHED UPON THE EARTH FROM THE BEGINNING TO THE END...particulary one specfically identified as WHERE THE LORD was crucified.
name one:
church
rome
new york
blah blah..
you can't even read the dialogue between Jesus and the Pharisees and see it.
those weren't popes or roman soldiers or evangelicals He was talking to.
such a waste of time.
you'll never get anywhere with your "theory"
because it's antiscriptural.
you don't understand it.
sorry for you
Last edited:
R
blah blah blah 'slanderous'.
no, that would be you accusing people who stick to what scripture says in spite of your tragic efforts to connect actually being faithful to what revelation says (not to mention every other passage that predicts the Messiahs' coming and rejection by the very people He was sent to).... to lusting for extermination of jews; you name it. you've tried it.
accusations of the more bizarre sort - just more signs that you do not know the scriptures.
and it's more evident ever time you post contrary to everything Jesus Himself said.
i can't help it if you don't understand outside the camp.
no, that would be you accusing people who stick to what scripture says in spite of your tragic efforts to connect actually being faithful to what revelation says (not to mention every other passage that predicts the Messiahs' coming and rejection by the very people He was sent to).... to lusting for extermination of jews; you name it. you've tried it.
accusations of the more bizarre sort
- just more signs that you do not know the scriptures.and it's more evident ever time you post contrary to everything Jesus Himself said.
i can't help it if you don't understand outside the camp.
and i have no problem with people who believe the passages that predict the messiah's coming and rejection by his people...in fact i -believe- those passages too...so this is just more of the usual baseless -slander- from you...
i know the scriptures just as well as you do...the difference is that i -believe what they say- and you don't...
i have not contradicted anything jesus said...that is still more slander on your part...
what i understand is that the 'outside' in 'outside the camp' actually means...-outside-! and not 'close enough that it is pretty much the same thing as inside' as in your insipid false doctrine...
YAWN.
you can repeat that accusation til you're old and grey.
it doesn't make it true.
and coming from you, it's even less likely.
you have a serious problem.
it's not with me - it's with the Scriptures.
Romans 11:31
so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you.
bye now.
the great accuser rachel....what irony.
everytime you deny where Christ was crucified, you deny what He repeatedly said...AND what happened. why you do it is known only to you (not really)
John 8:37
36"So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed. 37"I know that you are Abraham's descendants; yet you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38"I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father."
John 7:1
After this, Jesus went around in Galilee. He did not want to go about in Judea because the Jewish leaders there were looking for a way to kill him.
John 8:40
As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things.
John 18
39"But you have a custom that I release someone for you at the Passover; do you wish then that I release for you the King of the Jews?" 40So they cried out again, saying, "Not this Man, but Barabbas." Now Barabbas was a robber.
Matthew 26:55
In that hour Jesus said to the crowd, "Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me.
Acts 3:14
You disowned the Holy and Righteous One and asked that a murderer be released to you.
etc etc
if you think the New Testament is antisemitic, that's your issue.
everytime you deny where Christ was crucified, you deny what He repeatedly said...AND what happened. why you do it is known only to you (not really
)John 8:37
36"So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed. 37"I know that you are Abraham's descendants; yet you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38"I speak the things which I have seen with My Father; therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father."
John 7:1
After this, Jesus went around in Galilee. He did not want to go about in Judea because the Jewish leaders there were looking for a way to kill him.
John 8:40
As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things.
John 18
39"But you have a custom that I release someone for you at the Passover; do you wish then that I release for you the King of the Jews?" 40So they cried out again, saying, "Not this Man, but Barabbas." Now Barabbas was a robber.
Matthew 26:55
In that hour Jesus said to the crowd, "Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me.
Acts 3:14
You disowned the Holy and Righteous One and asked that a murderer be released to you.
etc etc
if you think the New Testament is antisemitic, that's your issue.
well excuse me if i don't display fruits of the spirit toward you, who continually accuses me of murder - because you have issues with the NT record. and you extraoplate from there....but see, that's you - not me
i'm called to have nothing to do with false teachers and slanderers....such as yourself.
best of luck to you in your search for a church, then
one where you'd excommunicate ppl for bizarre stuff you made up about Synod (due to the murder in your heart - toward me - hypocrite i believe that's called), then you slandered LCMS Pastors; teachers AND President Harrison.
tsk tsk.
i'm called to have nothing to do with false teachers and slanderers....such as yourself.
best of luck to you in your search for a church, then
one where you'd excommunicate ppl for bizarre stuff you made up about Synod (due to the murder in your heart - toward me - hypocrite i believe that's called), then you slandered LCMS Pastors; teachers AND President Harrison.
tsk tsk.
Last edited:
R
did ya wanna see the letter from Synod?
false gospel? which false gospel is that?
that everybody in the world except you knows where this is:
Revelation 11:8
and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.
Isaiah 1:9
Unless the LORD Almighty had left us some survivors, we would have become like Sodom, we would have been like Gomorrah.
Jeremiah 23:14
And among the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen something horrible: They commit adultery and live a lie. They strengthen the hands of evildoers, so that not one of them turns from their wickedness. They are all like Sodom to me; the people of Jerusalem are like Gomorrah."
Ezekiel 16:46
Your older sister was Samaria, who lived to the north of you with her daughters; and your younger sister, who lived to the south of you with her daughters, was Sodom.
Ezekiel 23:3
They became prostitutes in Egypt, engaging in prostitution from their youth. In that land their breasts were fondled and their virgin bosoms caressed.
noooooo.......Israel's prophets were speaking of the 21st century apostate world-church-mystical-non-city.
because Rachel doesn't understand outside the camp.
k......bored now.
false gospel? which false gospel is that?
that everybody in the world except you knows where this is:
Revelation 11:8
and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.
Isaiah 1:9
Unless the LORD Almighty had left us some survivors, we would have become like Sodom, we would have been like Gomorrah.
Jeremiah 23:14
And among the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen something horrible: They commit adultery and live a lie. They strengthen the hands of evildoers, so that not one of them turns from their wickedness. They are all like Sodom to me; the people of Jerusalem are like Gomorrah."
Ezekiel 16:46
Your older sister was Samaria, who lived to the north of you with her daughters; and your younger sister, who lived to the south of you with her daughters, was Sodom.
Ezekiel 23:3
They became prostitutes in Egypt, engaging in prostitution from their youth. In that land their breasts were fondled and their virgin bosoms caressed.
noooooo.......Israel's prophets were speaking of the 21st century apostate world-church-mystical-non-city.
because Rachel doesn't understand outside the camp.
k......bored now.
your false gospel is the one where you claim that anyone who disagrees with your 'mystery jerusalem' eisegesis is 'taking their chances with God'...a false gospel of salvation by agreement with zone's doctrinal innovations...
so 'everybody in the world' except for me 'knows' that revelation 11:8 refers to jerusalem? well that clearly isn't true given the results of your own poll where four out of every five people disagree with that assertion...
so that is just a -blatant lie- on your part...
i have already shown previously in this thread that the scriptures you just posted have nothing to do with mystery babylon...but it is kind of revealing that you seem to think if you just start the script over again it will work this time...that is what the other cultists usually do when they come here to promote their doctrines...
maybe in your gutter theology 'outside' means 'wherever there are lots of jews'...but in the real world 'outside' means -not inside-
R
and you, dear, still do not understand WHY that generation was held to account - they had the HISTORY.
and still killed the prophets, and conspired with the Romans to kill the Lord.
sorry you don't like the Bible and what it says
you're going to have a hard time finding ANY city - mystical or otherwise held to account FOR ALL INNOCENT BLOOD SHED UPON THE EARTH FROM THE BEGINNING TO THE END...particulary one specfically identified as WHERE THE LORD was crucified.
name one:
church
rome
new york
blah blah..
you can't even read the dialogue between Jesus and the Pharisees and see it.
those weren't popes or roman soldiers or evangelicals He was talking to.
such a waste of time.
you'll never get anywhere with your "theory"
because it's antiscriptural.
you don't understand it.
sorry for you
and still killed the prophets, and conspired with the Romans to kill the Lord.
sorry you don't like the Bible and what it says
you're going to have a hard time finding ANY city - mystical or otherwise held to account FOR ALL INNOCENT BLOOD SHED UPON THE EARTH FROM THE BEGINNING TO THE END...particulary one specfically identified as WHERE THE LORD was crucified.
name one:
church
rome
new york
blah blah..
you can't even read the dialogue between Jesus and the Pharisees and see it.
those weren't popes or roman soldiers or evangelicals He was talking to.
such a waste of time.
you'll never get anywhere with your "theory"
because it's antiscriptural.
you don't understand it.
sorry for you
now i know -you- like to blame the jewish people for just about every bad thing that has ever happened...again to justify your hatred of them...but in the real world there is no city responsible for all the blood shed on earth...
so yes it -is- hard...in fact impossible...to find an earthly city responsible for the blood of all who have been slain on the earth...that is what honest exegetes would call a 'clue'
and it is why the scriptural conclusion is that mystery babylon is -not- any earthly city... just like the city of God is not an earthly city and the kingdom of God is not an earthly kingdom...their opposites are not early cities or kingdoms either...
the scriptural fact...according to the gospel of john and the epistle to the hebrews...that jesus was crucified -outside- the city also supports the correct conclusion and refutes your false doctrine...
LOL. stop talking rachel.
you're embarrassing yourself.
you made accusations and assertions...i followed up....did you?
here it is dear...i could post the answers given by the LCC/LCMS Pastors you claimed would surely represent that "Liberal element" President Harrison is working to purge.
would you like the response to that from the president's office?
find another church - LCMS is not a cult.
~
Dear Katherine,
Thank you for writing and sharing your concerns. Our staff has provided the following response.
1. First of all, please contact a pastor or theologian who can speak to this matter on behalf of the LCC for a more definitive response and for reassurance.
2. Second, for the sake of reassurance, it is very helpful to say that the creeds and the Small Catechism are the confessions for our laity and no one should demand a level of subscription beyond that—something very few laity could make in good conscience.
3. And third, as for the LCMS, together with the Confessions, we have with great consistency sought to speak carefully of the confessional assertions about the antichrist(s) of Scripture, often employing a distinction between the pope as a man and the office and actions of the papacy and noting the responsibility of all who are called to preach and teach in Christ’s stead.
a. The baptized man—Jorge Borgoglio—is our brother in Christ. As a Christian man who is serving as a pastor and bishop, he holds a godly, biblical office and may indeed further the Gospel through his preaching and teaching and his sacramental administration.
b. However, as Pope Francis, he holds an unbiblical office which makes claims which are contrary to Christ—or, to use the language of Ap XV, 18, are “a part of the kingdom of the Antichrist” to the extent that “it defends human rites as justifying.”
c. The Ap also notes, in keeping with Katherine’s point of concern, the plural Antichrists of Scripture and (significantly!) does so after receiving the Confutation’s affirmation of AC XIII. The assumption is that both the confessors and their detractors agree on the important fact that that all ungodly teachers and false prophets are counted as Antichrists (Ap VII, 47).
d. Whether a form of the papal office could be of benefit, by human rite, is a theoretical question for which Luther and Melanchthon provided different answers, with Luther denying its potential benefit and Melanchthon affirming it.
I pray this information is helpful. May God richly bless your day.
Diane Grimm
LCMS Church Information Center
Phone: 888-843-5267
Fax: 314-996-1126
Hours: 7:45 a.m. to 4:15 p.m. Central Time
Monday through Friday
~
take it up with Synod or find another church....at least stop lying me, and about my church.
one LCMS Pastor gave me his name & number for you - he'd like to help you out.
he's not sure why you consider LCMS a cult.
no rachel - the "you will answer for it' - was directed at your type - who refuse what the biblical record says and agrees with current Israeli and Western corruptions of scripture to bomb arabs into the stone age - against the teachings of Jesus.
keep your accusations straight, girl.
tsk...such hatred....in your heart.
just a burning resentment.
did you ever correct your certain assertion you KNEW the feet were not the Herods and Rome?
or do you still deny that too.
maybe it's the POPE.
you've shown nothing. but you like to think you have.
zero. you don't even have a decent THEORY to follow up you unbiblical redefinition of where Jesus was crucified.
LOLOLOLOL
because you deny the very clear message repeated through Scripture that Jerusalem, along with the gentiles RULING JUDEA, as PETER clearly stated were responsible for the death of Christ - at JERUSALEM.
like it or lump it. i don't care what you do.
gutter theology.
rachel, do you think your pathetic insults advance your lame theory?
i assure they do not.
you're embarrassing yourself.
you made accusations and assertions...i followed up....did you?
here it is dear...i could post the answers given by the LCC/LCMS Pastors you claimed would surely represent that "Liberal element" President Harrison is working to purge.
would you like the response to that from the president's office?
find another church - LCMS is not a cult.
~
Dear Katherine,
Thank you for writing and sharing your concerns. Our staff has provided the following response.
1. First of all, please contact a pastor or theologian who can speak to this matter on behalf of the LCC for a more definitive response and for reassurance.
2. Second, for the sake of reassurance, it is very helpful to say that the creeds and the Small Catechism are the confessions for our laity and no one should demand a level of subscription beyond that—something very few laity could make in good conscience.
3. And third, as for the LCMS, together with the Confessions, we have with great consistency sought to speak carefully of the confessional assertions about the antichrist(s) of Scripture, often employing a distinction between the pope as a man and the office and actions of the papacy and noting the responsibility of all who are called to preach and teach in Christ’s stead.
a. The baptized man—Jorge Borgoglio—is our brother in Christ. As a Christian man who is serving as a pastor and bishop, he holds a godly, biblical office and may indeed further the Gospel through his preaching and teaching and his sacramental administration.
b. However, as Pope Francis, he holds an unbiblical office which makes claims which are contrary to Christ—or, to use the language of Ap XV, 18, are “a part of the kingdom of the Antichrist” to the extent that “it defends human rites as justifying.”
c. The Ap also notes, in keeping with Katherine’s point of concern, the plural Antichrists of Scripture and (significantly!) does so after receiving the Confutation’s affirmation of AC XIII. The assumption is that both the confessors and their detractors agree on the important fact that that all ungodly teachers and false prophets are counted as Antichrists (Ap VII, 47).
d. Whether a form of the papal office could be of benefit, by human rite, is a theoretical question for which Luther and Melanchthon provided different answers, with Luther denying its potential benefit and Melanchthon affirming it.
I pray this information is helpful. May God richly bless your day.
Diane Grimm
LCMS Church Information Center
Phone: 888-843-5267
Fax: 314-996-1126
Hours: 7:45 a.m. to 4:15 p.m. Central Time
Monday through Friday
~
take it up with Synod or find another church....at least stop lying me, and about my church.
one LCMS Pastor gave me his name & number for you - he'd like to help you out.
he's not sure why you consider LCMS a cult.
no rachel - the "you will answer for it' - was directed at your type - who refuse what the biblical record says and agrees with current Israeli and Western corruptions of scripture to bomb arabs into the stone age - against the teachings of Jesus.
keep your accusations straight, girl.
tsk...such hatred....in your heart.
just a burning resentment.
did you ever correct your certain assertion you KNEW the feet were not the Herods and Rome?
or do you still deny that too.
maybe it's the POPE.
you've shown nothing. but you like to think you have.
zero. you don't even have a decent THEORY to follow up you unbiblical redefinition of where Jesus was crucified.
LOLOLOLOL
because you deny the very clear message repeated through Scripture that Jerusalem, along with the gentiles RULING JUDEA, as PETER clearly stated were responsible for the death of Christ - at JERUSALEM.
like it or lump it. i don't care what you do.
gutter theology.
rachel, do you think your pathetic insults advance your lame theory?
i assure they do not.
Last edited: