Mystery, Babylon the Great - earthly Jerusalem?
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HUH?
DIDN'T HE SAY COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE?
AND DIDN'T THEY?
or does He say COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE THEN DESTROYS HIS PEOPLE?
i just showed you there were UNBELIEVING JEWISH survivors (who didn't heed Christ's warning and did not COME OUT OF HER) and did partake of her plagues, and having survived were taken away AS SLAVES.
the Christians who BELIEVED JESUS...saw the signs of coming destruction by Titus - what signs?
HEROD WAS SETTING UP ROMAN IDOLS AND COW-TOWING TO CAESAR and doing as he pleased; killing high priests and killing everybody.
Jerusalem was being surrounded by armies....
.....
anyways read this (if you want to):
Herod the Great - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click
or this:
Herod The Great
Upon his death, Antipater's territory was divided among his four sons. Galilee went to Herod, who later was appointed tetrarch of Judea by Mark Antony, and also king of Judea by the senate in Rome.
Herod was a brutal and wicked man who is perhaps most remembered for his murderous decree at the time of the birth of Jesus Christ in Bethlehem:
"Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, "Rise, take the child and his mother [see Mary], and flee to Egypt, and remain there till I tell you; for Herod is about to search for the child, to destroy Him." (Matthew 2:13 RSV)
In an effort the kill The Child that had escaped him, Herod then ordered the killing of all male children of Bethlehem and vicinity, two years of age and under, in what has become known as the "slaughter of the innocents" (Matthew 2:16).
Like many despots, Herod considered himself to be a builder of great cities and magnificent structures. He continued the work on the fortress of Masada and rebuilt the Temple in Jerusalem on a grand scale, a work that went on for decades, and which was not completed until after his death. As He was in that "Herodian" Temple, Jesus spoke both of its magnificence, and prophesied its destruction (Matthew 24:1-2), which was fulfilled by Roman Legions in 70 A.D. (see Temples and Fall of Jerusalem In 70 A.D.)
After ruling for about 37 years, Herod died at Jericho about 4 B.C. An angel then again appeared to Joseph to tell him to return from Egypt. So Joseph "went and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that what was spoken by the prophets might be fulfilled, "He shall be called a Nazarene." (Matthew 2:23 RSV).
Herod Antipas
Herod Antipas was the son of Herod the Great and his Samaritan wife Malthace. He was tetrarch of Galilee during all of Jesus' human life. Unlike his father, who had tried and failed to have The Savior killed, this Herod saw it happen. He was the Herod that spoke with Jesus Christ after His arrest That Fateful Night (Luke 23:6-12), before sending Him back to Pontius Pilate.
It was also this Herod who earlier had John The Baptist beheaded (Matthew 14:1-12) at the instigation of Herodias, the wife of his half-brother Herod-Philip, whom he had married.
Herod Agrippa I
Herod Agrippa I was the son of Aristobulus and Bernice, and grandson of Herod the Great. He was tetrarch of the provinces previously ruled by Lysanias II, but eventually he possessed the entire kingdom of his grandfather, with the title of king.
It was this Herod that had James, the brother of John, executed (Acts 12:1-2). He then imprisoned Peter with the intention of killing him also (Acts 12:3-5), but God had an angel go in and get him out (Acts 12:6-10).
Like all of the rest, Herod Agrippa had a very high opinion of himself until one day, about 44 A.D., it went too far - he, in effect, claimed to be divine (Acts 12:21-22). "Immediately an angel of The Lord smote him, because he did not give God the glory; and he was eaten by worms and died." (Acts 12:23 RSV)
Herod Agrippa II
Herod Arippa II was the son of Herod Agrippa I and Cypros, and great-grandson of Herod the Great. Claudius (see Roman Emperors) made him tetrarch of the provinces of Philippi and Lysanias, with the title of king. He enlarged the city of Caesarea Philippi, and called it Neronias, in honor of Emperor Nero. It was before him and Bernice that Paul made his defence at Caesarea (Acts 25:13-27, 26:1-32). Herod Agrippa II died at Rome about 100 A.D.
Daily Bible Study - The Herods
they called themselves KINGS OF THE JEWS - they were Edomites...converts to Biblical Judaism.
Daniel 11
36“And the king shall do as he wills. He shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods. He shall prosper till the indignation is accomplished; for what is decreed shall be done. 37He shall pay no attention to the gods of his fathers, or to the one beloved by women. He shall not pay attention to any other god, for he shall magnify himself above all. 38He shall honor the god of fortresses instead of these. A god whom his fathers did not know he shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and costly gifts. 39He shall deal with the strongest fortresses with the help of a foreign god. Those who acknowledge him he shall load with honor. He shall make them rulers over many and shall divide the land for a price.f
DIDN'T HE SAY COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE?
AND DIDN'T THEY?
or does He say COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE THEN DESTROYS HIS PEOPLE?
i just showed you there were UNBELIEVING JEWISH survivors (who didn't heed Christ's warning and did not COME OUT OF HER) and did partake of her plagues, and having survived were taken away AS SLAVES.
the Christians who BELIEVED JESUS...saw the signs of coming destruction by Titus - what signs?
HEROD WAS SETTING UP ROMAN IDOLS AND COW-TOWING TO CAESAR and doing as he pleased; killing high priests and killing everybody.
Jerusalem was being surrounded by armies....
.....
anyways read this (if you want to):
Herod the Great - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click
or this:
Herod The Great
Upon his death, Antipater's territory was divided among his four sons. Galilee went to Herod, who later was appointed tetrarch of Judea by Mark Antony, and also king of Judea by the senate in Rome.
Herod was a brutal and wicked man who is perhaps most remembered for his murderous decree at the time of the birth of Jesus Christ in Bethlehem:
"Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream and said, "Rise, take the child and his mother [see Mary], and flee to Egypt, and remain there till I tell you; for Herod is about to search for the child, to destroy Him." (Matthew 2:13 RSV)
In an effort the kill The Child that had escaped him, Herod then ordered the killing of all male children of Bethlehem and vicinity, two years of age and under, in what has become known as the "slaughter of the innocents" (Matthew 2:16).
Like many despots, Herod considered himself to be a builder of great cities and magnificent structures. He continued the work on the fortress of Masada and rebuilt the Temple in Jerusalem on a grand scale, a work that went on for decades, and which was not completed until after his death. As He was in that "Herodian" Temple, Jesus spoke both of its magnificence, and prophesied its destruction (Matthew 24:1-2), which was fulfilled by Roman Legions in 70 A.D. (see Temples and Fall of Jerusalem In 70 A.D.)
After ruling for about 37 years, Herod died at Jericho about 4 B.C. An angel then again appeared to Joseph to tell him to return from Egypt. So Joseph "went and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that what was spoken by the prophets might be fulfilled, "He shall be called a Nazarene." (Matthew 2:23 RSV).
Herod Antipas
Herod Antipas was the son of Herod the Great and his Samaritan wife Malthace. He was tetrarch of Galilee during all of Jesus' human life. Unlike his father, who had tried and failed to have The Savior killed, this Herod saw it happen. He was the Herod that spoke with Jesus Christ after His arrest That Fateful Night (Luke 23:6-12), before sending Him back to Pontius Pilate.
It was also this Herod who earlier had John The Baptist beheaded (Matthew 14:1-12) at the instigation of Herodias, the wife of his half-brother Herod-Philip, whom he had married.
Herod Agrippa I
Herod Agrippa I was the son of Aristobulus and Bernice, and grandson of Herod the Great. He was tetrarch of the provinces previously ruled by Lysanias II, but eventually he possessed the entire kingdom of his grandfather, with the title of king.
It was this Herod that had James, the brother of John, executed (Acts 12:1-2). He then imprisoned Peter with the intention of killing him also (Acts 12:3-5), but God had an angel go in and get him out (Acts 12:6-10).
Like all of the rest, Herod Agrippa had a very high opinion of himself until one day, about 44 A.D., it went too far - he, in effect, claimed to be divine (Acts 12:21-22). "Immediately an angel of The Lord smote him, because he did not give God the glory; and he was eaten by worms and died." (Acts 12:23 RSV)
Herod Agrippa II
Herod Arippa II was the son of Herod Agrippa I and Cypros, and great-grandson of Herod the Great. Claudius (see Roman Emperors) made him tetrarch of the provinces of Philippi and Lysanias, with the title of king. He enlarged the city of Caesarea Philippi, and called it Neronias, in honor of Emperor Nero. It was before him and Bernice that Paul made his defence at Caesarea (Acts 25:13-27, 26:1-32). Herod Agrippa II died at Rome about 100 A.D.
Daily Bible Study - The Herods
they called themselves KINGS OF THE JEWS - they were Edomites...converts to Biblical Judaism.
Daniel 11
36“And the king shall do as he wills. He shall exalt himself and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak astonishing things against the God of gods. He shall prosper till the indignation is accomplished; for what is decreed shall be done. 37He shall pay no attention to the gods of his fathers, or to the one beloved by women. He shall not pay attention to any other god, for he shall magnify himself above all. 38He shall honor the god of fortresses instead of these. A god whom his fathers did not know he shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and costly gifts. 39He shall deal with the strongest fortresses with the help of a foreign god. Those who acknowledge him he shall load with honor. He shall make them rulers over many and shall divide the land for a price.f
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H
To Zone, You have done a masterful research of History; But, your error is: you are about 2,000 yrs out of context.! Your basic principle of interpretation is in error, Too allegorical. Reading you is like read one of the great writters of the Reform , covenant theologians, like B.B.Warfield, so much verbiage and very little light on the subject of future events. Too allegorical. Covenant theo. has never gotten eschatology right, some today, are better than their predecessors. One verse destroys all you have said: Romans 11:15 "For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?" End of discussion.!! God is working with His chosen nation today, Jesus will return to the Jewish nation soon. The destruction of the temple was done 30 yrs. before John wrote Revelation. And the Rom Cath. ch. is modern history, and Rome fits the description of Mystery Babylon to the "T". Very few Dispensationalist teach a "dual cov. view" and no historical cov. theologians teach it, to my knowledge. The modern Fundamentals IMPLY a dual cov. idea, but ,if pressed they would reject it; As they teach a false "easy believism sal. but, if pressed, they know better. There is only ONE olive tree of sal., it is Jewish, we, gentiles are grafted in, but we will be cut off if we don't produce the right fruit, faith and works. The physical Jewish nation was never saved, only the elect of Israel. Please, we all need a bit more patience, none of us are tring to lie, we just tell NON truths, some times. Love to all, Hoffco
oh Hoff
"what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?"
means.....if they continue NOT in unbelief, what will their acceptance be but LIFE FROM THE DEAD?
WHAT DID YOU THINK IT MEANT?
and how on earth does that one verse you misunderstood destroy everything the bible says about Jerusalem?
please explain.
"what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?"
means.....if they continue NOT in unbelief, what will their acceptance be but LIFE FROM THE DEAD?
WHAT DID YOU THINK IT MEANT?
and how on earth does that one verse you misunderstood destroy everything the bible says about Jerusalem?
please explain.
L
then how do you guys explain Matt 10:23 or 21:32?
It says there that the Last Day would happen before Jesus' generation passed away, and before the gospel could even reach all of the cities in Israel.
that would be before 100 AD
I'm just trolling, but seriously... how can I explain away those verses in this context?
don't answer, i will just make a new thread. it doesn't belong here. sry
It says there that the Last Day would happen before Jesus' generation passed away, and before the gospel could even reach all of the cities in Israel.
that would be before 100 AD
I'm just trolling, but seriously... how can I explain away those verses in this context?
don't answer, i will just make a new thread. it doesn't belong here. sry
Yes there where unbeliving Jews that where captive by rome , and sent to gladiator games and such forth, after the events Destruction of Jerusalem & Her Temple in 70 Ad. We agree with this. When i first came to cc , i enjoy reading your Herods thread you just started on it ,It was the first thread i read on here ,thx for all that info. But here lies the problem of trying to connect 70Ad with Mystery Babylon the Great Revelation 18 clearly tells the reader there are none taken captive from her they all are killed in her. Only God people come out of her, my post cleary expain this miss zone.
captive= a person who has been taken prisoner or an animal that has been confined.
God bless , going to eat some ice cream with my niece
captive= a person who has been taken prisoner or an animal that has been confined.
God bless , going to eat some ice cream with my niece
D
Then I would suggest you stop lying and quit promoting the fallacy that I espouse dual covenant theology.
Kath you are once again obfuscating and resorting to misrepresentation (I.E. lyimg) in a poor effort to justify your lie. You have repeatedly said;
View the quote at it’s original source in the dual covenant theology thread > http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/58728-dual-covenant-theology.html#post929238
view the quote at it’s original source in the to whom the shoe fits thread > http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/58545-whom-shoe-fits-13.html#post929200
view the quote at it’s original source> http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/57042-connecting-dots-2.html#post903462
Kath despite the fact that you made 3 posts in a row trying to defend your lie you have not shown anywhere that I have taught anything that matches the definition of the false doctrine of dual-covenant theology. Regardless of whether there are one or two covenants there is only one method of salvation and that is to be born again, so obviously any doctrine that falsely teaches a Jew can simply be saved by adhering to the law is in error. Once again may I remind you that regardless of whether one is an Old Testament believer or a New Testament believer, from Adam until Christ’s return the only way to enter the narrow gate is to be born again! A Jewish person can not be saved by simply adhering to the law even if the false teaching of dual covenat theology says they can.
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
1Co 10:1- 4 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all
drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. So clearly the view I espouse does not match dual covenant theology despite Zone ‘s false accusations.
Remember folks just because someone repeats a lie over and over it is still a lie, it will not magically become true just because Zone keeps repeating it.
You know Kath you and I agree on some points when it comes to eschatology, and there are other points where we disagree. Let me ask, how you would react if I were to use your tactic and twist your words to make it look like you believe and taught something you don’t?
Allow me to provide an example. You have said that Jerusalem is Babylon. Scripture says Jerusalem is a holy city.
Neh_11:1 And the rulers of the people dwelt at Jerusalem: the rest of the people also cast lots, to bring one of ten to dwell in Jerusalem the holy city, and nine parts to dwell in other cities.
Mat_27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Rev_11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
If I were to resort to your tactics and take your words out of context I could falsely claim that Zone believes and teaches Babylon is a holy city. Now you and I both know that would be a false statement (I.E. a lie). Why is it a lie? Because we both know you don’t believe Babylon is a holy city.
By the same token you and I both no that no one can be saved by adhering to the law. So for you to falsely claim that I believe or espouse dual covenant theology is nothing more then a lie!
May I ask how you can honestly expect to carry on a productive discussion when you resort to the despicable tactic of lying about what others believe?
Kath you are once again obfuscating and resorting to misrepresentation (I.E. lyimg) in a poor effort to justify your lie. You have repeatedly said;
View the quote at it’s original source in the dual covenant theology thread > http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/58728-dual-covenant-theology.html#post929238
view the quote at it’s original source in the to whom the shoe fits thread > http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/58545-whom-shoe-fits-13.html#post929200
view the quote at it’s original source> http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/57042-connecting-dots-2.html#post903462
Kath despite the fact that you made 3 posts in a row trying to defend your lie you have not shown anywhere that I have taught anything that matches the definition of the false doctrine of dual-covenant theology. Regardless of whether there are one or two covenants there is only one method of salvation and that is to be born again, so obviously any doctrine that falsely teaches a Jew can simply be saved by adhering to the law is in error. Once again may I remind you that regardless of whether one is an Old Testament believer or a New Testament believer, from Adam until Christ’s return the only way to enter the narrow gate is to be born again! A Jewish person can not be saved by simply adhering to the law even if the false teaching of dual covenat theology says they can.
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
1Co 10:1- 4 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all
drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. So clearly the view I espouse does not match dual covenant theology despite Zone ‘s false accusations.
Remember folks just because someone repeats a lie over and over it is still a lie, it will not magically become true just because Zone keeps repeating it.
You know Kath you and I agree on some points when it comes to eschatology, and there are other points where we disagree. Let me ask, how you would react if I were to use your tactic and twist your words to make it look like you believe and taught something you don’t?
Allow me to provide an example. You have said that Jerusalem is Babylon. Scripture says Jerusalem is a holy city.
Neh_11:1 And the rulers of the people dwelt at Jerusalem: the rest of the people also cast lots, to bring one of ten to dwell in Jerusalem the holy city, and nine parts to dwell in other cities.
Mat_27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Rev_11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
If I were to resort to your tactics and take your words out of context I could falsely claim that Zone believes and teaches Babylon is a holy city. Now you and I both know that would be a false statement (I.E. a lie). Why is it a lie? Because we both know you don’t believe Babylon is a holy city.
By the same token you and I both no that no one can be saved by adhering to the law. So for you to falsely claim that I believe or espouse dual covenant theology is nothing more then a lie!
May I ask how you can honestly expect to carry on a productive discussion when you resort to the despicable tactic of lying about what others believe?
D
Angela53510, SarahM777 and Married_Richenbrachen
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
I have some questions for you.
Does the above verse talk about a wild olive tree? Yes or no
Does the above verse talk about a good olive tree? Yes or no
Does 1 + 1 = 2? Yes or no
Do all Gentiles originally come from the wild olive tree? Yes or no
Do all Jews originally come from the good olive tree? Yes or no
Do the two olive trees (the good olive tree and the wild olive tree) represent Jews and Gentiles? Yes or no
Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
Is a candlestick a church? Yes or no
Is the word ekklēsia translated as church in our English translations? Yes or no
G1577
ἐκκλησία
ekklēsia
ek-klay-see'-ah
From a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): - assembly, church.
Is the definition of ekklēsia a calling ot, a religious congregation or community of Christian members? Yes or no
No need to obfuscate with long drawn out explanations a simple yes or no will suffice for each question. If the answer to all of the above questions is yes (and it is) and we were to use those definitions Scripture provides two olive trees would be Jews and Gentiles. Once again using the definitions Scripture provides the two candlesticks would be two churches or those called out.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Did our unchanging God/Word change the definitions of the olive trees between Romans and Revelation? Yes or no
Did our unchanging God/Word change the definition of a candlestick between Rev1 and Rev11? Yes or no
If the answer to these two questions is no (and it is) then it would be correct to use the definitions of olive trees and candlesticks (provided in the first set of questions) to define those same terms in the following verses.
Rev 11:3-4 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
So according to Scripture wouldn’t the two olive trees and the two candlesticks in the above verse be the Jewish people and the Gentile people that are the called out? Yes or no
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
I have some questions for you.
Does the above verse talk about a wild olive tree? Yes or no
Does the above verse talk about a good olive tree? Yes or no
Does 1 + 1 = 2? Yes or no
Do all Gentiles originally come from the wild olive tree? Yes or no
Do all Jews originally come from the good olive tree? Yes or no
Do the two olive trees (the good olive tree and the wild olive tree) represent Jews and Gentiles? Yes or no
Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
Is a candlestick a church? Yes or no
Is the word ekklēsia translated as church in our English translations? Yes or no
G1577
ἐκκλησία
ekklēsia
ek-klay-see'-ah
From a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): - assembly, church.
Is the definition of ekklēsia a calling ot, a religious congregation or community of Christian members? Yes or no
No need to obfuscate with long drawn out explanations a simple yes or no will suffice for each question. If the answer to all of the above questions is yes (and it is) and we were to use those definitions Scripture provides two olive trees would be Jews and Gentiles. Once again using the definitions Scripture provides the two candlesticks would be two churches or those called out.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Did our unchanging God/Word change the definitions of the olive trees between Romans and Revelation? Yes or no
Did our unchanging God/Word change the definition of a candlestick between Rev1 and Rev11? Yes or no
If the answer to these two questions is no (and it is) then it would be correct to use the definitions of olive trees and candlesticks (provided in the first set of questions) to define those same terms in the following verses.
Rev 11:3-4 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
So according to Scripture wouldn’t the two olive trees and the two candlesticks in the above verse be the Jewish people and the Gentile people that are the called out? Yes or no
D
May I ask how Rome can be responsible for the blood of all that were slain upon the earth when Rome did not exist when Cain murdered Abel?
Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
In order for Babylon to contain the blood of all slain upon the earth, would require that Babylon contains the blood of all slain on the earth from the time Cain murdered Abel until the last person to be slain on this earth is slain. Therefore Babylon can not be constrained by time or geographic location. This effectively eliminates the commonly held doctrines that require Rome or Jerusalem to be Babylon.
Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
In order for Babylon to contain the blood of all slain upon the earth, would require that Babylon contains the blood of all slain on the earth from the time Cain murdered Abel until the last person to be slain on this earth is slain. Therefore Babylon can not be constrained by time or geographic location. This effectively eliminates the commonly held doctrines that require Rome or Jerusalem to be Babylon.
A
this logic doesnt hold much water..and doest exclude any geographical location or time either.
besides:
[h=3]Matthew 23:29-36[/h]King James Version (KJV)
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
this includes your premise.
besides:
[h=3]Matthew 23:29-36[/h]King James Version (KJV)
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
this includes your premise.
A
[h=3]Matthew 23:29-39[/h]King James Version (KJV)
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 Oh Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 Oh Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
D
So now the blood of ALL slain upon the earth doesn’t really mean all it only means the blood of the righteous from Abel to Zacharias and the prophets?
Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
Wouldn’t all include every human that was ever or will ever be murdered? How does Israel contain the blood of the unrighteous murdered here in the U.S. or China or Kenya or Pakistan or Iraq and the list goes on and on. As I said before for Babylon to include the blood of all that were slain upon the earth she cannot be constrained by time or location! This would effectively rule out Babylon being a literal city or any single false religion. So I ask whose logic is flawed?
Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
Wouldn’t all include every human that was ever or will ever be murdered? How does Israel contain the blood of the unrighteous murdered here in the U.S. or China or Kenya or Pakistan or Iraq and the list goes on and on. As I said before for Babylon to include the blood of all that were slain upon the earth she cannot be constrained by time or location! This would effectively rule out Babylon being a literal city or any single false religion. So I ask whose logic is flawed?
sure stephen.
done deal.
y'all believe what you want.
i really am a fool for wasting so much time on it
i already know it. why should i care if you do?
thanks for the reminder.
back to your regularly scheduled programming:
coming soon:
Dual Covenant Theology
2000 GAP theology
70th week magic acts
Old Testament Wineskin Jews Olive Tree Witness
and later, everyone's favorite:
THE 64,000 DOLLAR QUESTION:
WHAT IS:
the great city where the Lord was crucified?
and so much more.
ciao
THREAD NOW WIDE OPEN FOR ALL THE CONTENDERS FOR THE GREAT CITY.
don't forget San Francisco.
and Eugene.
This prophecy, this 7 sealed covenant scroll of Revelation, had to do with the covenant people of the earth (equals land). So yes it was to Old Covenant Israel, this is to whom Jesus said, ....you evil, perverse, and wicked generation... upon your heads..... shall all the sins of Israel fall.......from the righteous blood of Able to Zacharias........... Yes this is all that it means here, it has nothing to do with China, Iran, Russia or America! This is a Covenant prophecy, to God's Covenant people, that was written in real time as these things had already being manifest. Mystery Babylon the great Whore, was the unfaithful of Old Covenant Israel, and in her was found all the blood of the Prophets and Saints, that were slain upon the earth.. This is the symbolic language of the Ancient Prophets of Israel, they often used global language to speak to God's people concerning local places, if you would just take the time to go back and study some of these things for your selves. There are other people who have died for the sake of Christ Jesus and His kingdom since 70 ad, but this prophecy has nothing to do with those things. When these Ancient Prophets prophesied concerning the world, it was about their Old Covenant world in Adam, they were not interested in the rest of the world like China etc.... none of the rest of the world was included in their Covenant with God.
NOW! All of these things effected the rest of the world, but if you cannot even interpret the prophecies that have already been fulfilled, who would ever want to follow you in your interpreting thing that have not yet come to pass? Jerusalem was no longer Jerusalem in God's eyes and this was the warning cast in the prophecy of Mystery Babylon the great Whore, God's wife was a Harlot, they were no longer His chosen people, God was fixing to have her publicly stoned to death. They were by the Gospel, being called out of Her and into Christ Jesus, and these faithful were the New Jerusalem. And, when the door was shut they were cast out of the kingdom where they are until this very day.
You are casting many of these Scriptures into the future and you are creating a false paradigm (a false future), that does not exist and you are being trapped in this yourselves, along with those you draw in with you. If there is a dead horse here, you people are the ones riding it. The Mystery is that, just like you they couldn't see it!
NOW! All of these things effected the rest of the world, but if you cannot even interpret the prophecies that have already been fulfilled, who would ever want to follow you in your interpreting thing that have not yet come to pass? Jerusalem was no longer Jerusalem in God's eyes and this was the warning cast in the prophecy of Mystery Babylon the great Whore, God's wife was a Harlot, they were no longer His chosen people, God was fixing to have her publicly stoned to death. They were by the Gospel, being called out of Her and into Christ Jesus, and these faithful were the New Jerusalem. And, when the door was shut they were cast out of the kingdom where they are until this very day.
You are casting many of these Scriptures into the future and you are creating a false paradigm (a false future), that does not exist and you are being trapped in this yourselves, along with those you draw in with you. If there is a dead horse here, you people are the ones riding it. The Mystery is that, just like you they couldn't see it!