Mystery Babylon

[Afrikan]

Like i said before, it must be an unsettling thought for you to imagine, even for a second, that AMERICA could be Babylon The Great.

The Book of Revelations is a book of Prophecy, not CNN Breaking News for the days of Apostle John !! He was shown FUTURE EVENTS not what existed in his day !!

Everything referenced there is for us, the future generations, otherwise why would the Apostle speak of the Mark of The Beast ?? Was it present during the Roman Empire period in which they lived, were people branded with a mark to Buy & Sell ??

Again, i'll point you to the most important portion of Babylon's characteristics - SHE IS AN ECONOMIC POWER WHO USES THIS POWER TO CONTROL OTHER NATIONS !!

Do you think the VATICAN IS AN ECONOMIC POWER WHOSE DESTRUCTION WILL CAUSE THE WHOLE WORLD TO CRY OUT IN DESPAIR ?????

I agree that the POPE is an influential figure in the World but, he and the system he controls, has a part to play in the APOCALYPSE as the Founders of the ONE-WORLD RELIGION that will be part of the eventual BEAST System that controls the whole world.

Many influential spirit-filled Christian leaders like the late Rev. Billy Graham already believe that America and the World is under GOD'S judgement - look out at our world today full of evil and corruption which is readily embraced by the people; Who provides this evil that has moved across the world at such an alarming pace ?

How many believers today have obtained salvation because of the many efforts of faithful American Believers who send missionaries, provide tools for evangelism like Bibles, Christian Broadcasters like TBN Network ?? MANY !!!

But, the same AMERICA, provides the filth that pollutes the world and its inhabitants even CHRISTIAN BRETHREN - PORNOGRAPHY AVAILABLE ON EVERY DEVICE ON-DEMAND, IDOL-WORSHIPING HOLLYWOOD MEDIA MACHINE, LGBTQ+ Activism ACROSS THE WORLD !!!

The Judgement will be greater on AMERICA because she should have known better and not been Lukewarm - TO WHOM MUCH IS GIVEN, MUCH IS EXPECTED IN RETURN !!!

You seem to be set in your opinions and because i know we both have our opinions, let's agree to disagree.

In parting, i guess it does not really matter if Babylon the Great is America because GOD will judge us as individuals for the lives we've led - AMERICA WILL NOT BE THROWN INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE FOR HER SINS, ONLY WE WILL IF WE ARE NOT CAREFUL.

 

[Afrikan]

Please get up to date with prophecy - GOD is still speaking to HIS people regarding all these things. I'll reference below some spirit-filled prophets i've come to trust.




Some of the Prophets:

• JEFF BYERLY = https://holyspiritwind.net/

• BYRON SEARLE = https://byronsearle.blogspot.com/

• MIKE M = https://prophecy243381849.wordpress.com/

• LINDA HASCHE = https://believeacts2harvest.wordpress.com/

Some Important Prophecies:

• https://holyspiritwind.net/2017/10/...-that-i-am-about-to-speak-of-begin-to-happen/

• https://holyspiritwind.net/2019/09/summary-of-the-fiery-kickoff-event/

• https://holyspiritwind.net/2018/02/...r-for-he-is-the-last-king-of-babylon-america/

• https://holyspiritwind.net/2019/06/...will-be-her-fall-because-she-has-forsaken-me/

• https://holyspiritwind.net/2019/05/100-hard-truth-about-trump/

Some Videos:

 

[garee]

Like i said before, it must be an unsettling thought for you to imagine, even for a second, that AMERICA could be Babylon The Great.

The Book of Revelations is a book of Prophecy, not CNN Breaking News for the days of Apostle John !! He was shown FUTURE EVENTS not what existed in his day !!

Everything referenced there is for us, the future generations, otherwise why would the Apostle speak of the Mark of The Beast ?? Was it present during the Roman Empire period in which they lived, were people branded with a mark to Buy & Sell ??

Again, i'll point you to the most important portion of Babylon's characteristics - SHE IS AN ECONOMIC POWER WHO USES THIS POWER TO CONTROL OTHER NATIONS !!

Do you think the VATICAN IS AN ECONOMIC POWER WHOSE DESTRUCTION WILL CAUSE THE WHOLE WORLD TO CRY OUT IN DESPAIR ?????

I agree that the POPE is an influential figure in the World but, he and the system he controls, has a part to play in the APOCALYPSE as the Founders of the ONE-WORLD RELIGION that will be part of the eventual BEAST System that controls the whole world.

Many influential spirit-filled Christian leaders like the late Rev. Billy Graham already believe that America and the World is under GOD'S judgement - look out at our world today full of evil and corruption which is readily embraced by the people; Who provides this evil that has moved across the world at such an alarming pace ?

How many believers today have obtained salvation because of the many efforts of faithful American Believers who send missionaries, provide tools for evangelism like Bibles, Christian Broadcasters like TBN Network ?? MANY !!!

But, the same AMERICA, provides the filth that pollutes the world and its inhabitants even CHRISTIAN BRETHREN - PORNOGRAPHY AVAILABLE ON EVERY DEVICE ON-DEMAND, IDOL-WORSHIPING HOLLYWOOD MEDIA MACHINE, LGBTQ+ Activism ACROSS THE WORLD !!!

The Judgement will be greater on AMERICA because she should have known better and not been Lukewarm - TO WHOM MUCH IS GIVEN, MUCH IS EXPECTED IN RETURN !!!

You seem to be set in your opinions and because i know we both have our opinions, let's agree to disagree.

In parting, i guess it does not really matter if Babylon the Great is America because GOD will judge us as individuals for the lives we've led - AMERICA WILL NOT BE THROWN INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE FOR HER SINS, ONLY WE WILL IF WE ARE NOT CAREFUL.

The political kingdoms of this world is not the spiritual kingdom of God. We do not wrestle against flesh and blood the temporal things seen. It not earthly Jerusalem against another section of corrupted land like north America. The whole creation is corrupted

The whole world is under one world government. The government of God not of this world it does not come by observation.. . walking by sight after the temporal things seen.

That kind of idea is for signs as a wonderment gospel .

Making a person wonder is not part the gospel .We are to marvel not but rather believe.

The mark is not one outwardly and the buying and selling has to do with the gospel truth. The mark is the mark of Cain a restless wanderer no rest in Christ. Natural unconverted mankind . No visible sign is given to those who walk by faith the unseen eternal.

Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.

 

[PlainWord]

its a millennium not a century.

The first resurrection occurs BEFORE the millennium, not after. Who said anything about a century?

Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Noticed the beheaded (DEAD) were living (RESURRECTED) with Christ and reigning with Him for those thousand years? Now look at Dan 12 which is a description of the great tribulation of Jerusalem in 66-70 AD.

And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book. 2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise shall shine Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness Like the stars forever and ever. 4 “But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”

The "time of the end" was the time of the end of Israel and the Mosaic Age, not the end of the planet. It's the same "end of the age" the disciples asked about in Mat 24. They were in the "last days" not us.

Heb 1:2

has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds.

 

[Melach]

The first resurrection occurs BEFORE the millennium, not after. Who said anything about a century?

Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Noticed the beheaded (DEAD) were living (RESURRECTED) with Christ and reigning with Him for those thousand years? Now look at Dan 12 which is a description of the great tribulation of Jerusalem in 66-70 AD.

And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book. 2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise shall shine Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness Like the stars forever and ever. 4 “But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”

The "time of the end" was the time of the end of Israel and the Mosaic Age, not the end of the planet. It's the same "end of the age" the disciples asked about in Mat 24. They were in the "last days" not us.

Heb 1:2

has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds.

but then they didnt reign for a thousand years? because when was the rebellion at the end of millennium?

 

[PlainWord]

It's so sad that so many of my Christian brothers and sisters have fallen for this future pre-trib rapture and future second coming nonsense which is a creation of modern man (Darby 1830s). The establishment of the Kingdom was not a visible event as Christ Himself taught.

Lk 17:20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation."

The return of Christ was to be "as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be." It was the return of Christ's PRESENCE (parousia) not a physical bodily return. Christ's presence returned during that same generation just as He said He would.

28 Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Thus some who were alive standing in front of Christ when He uttered those words would still be alive when His presence returned to dwell with His church in the first century AD.

Those who wrote the NT spoke frequently about the return of Christ's presence. It's all they could talk about and they wanted their fellow Christians to live right and be ready. However, the early Christian writers of the 2nd and 3rd century never even hinted about Christ's return. Why do you suppose that is? It's because they knew it had already happened. I joined ancestry.com recently and traced my heritage back centuries. I read the Last Will and Testaments of dozens of my ancestors, all Christians by the way. In virtually all the wills they quoted Heb 9:27: "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment." None of them spoke of Christ returning to avoid their deaths.

 

[garee]

The first resurrection occurs BEFORE the millennium, not after. Who said anything about a century?

Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Noticed the beheaded (DEAD) were living (RESURRECTED) with Christ and reigning with Him for those thousand years? Now look at Dan 12 which is a description of the great tribulation of Jerusalem in 66-70 AD.

And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, Every one who is found written in the book. 2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise shall shine Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness Like the stars forever and ever. 4 “But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”

The "time of the end" was the time of the end of Israel and the Mosaic Age, not the end of the planet. It's the same "end of the age" the disciples asked about in Mat 24. They were in the "last days" not us.

Heb 1:2

has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds.

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV)1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

The Amil position works the best for reconciling the signified tongue of God.

I would offer according to the signified prophecy of Revelation . The first resurrection signified by. . It is finished was the beginning the millennium, an unknown , as the last days.

It remains open. To be absent from the corrupted body of death is to be in the presence of God. . dead asleep. .

Open until the last day an unknown. We walk by faith not looking to the temporal. the last day will come as a thief in the night. No outward sign as to the day hour or year. Its an evil generation natural man that does seek to make the signified interpretation the literal. No sign is given other than the sign of the times. Everything continues going as the day before. Just as in the time of Noah.

 

[PlainWord]

but then they didnt reign for a thousand years? because when was the rebellion at the end of millennium?

Rebellion?? That word is not used. "Deceive" is used. Read the text of Rev 20 then I will show you how it was fulfilled.

Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

So what we have is Gog, which is the area of today's Turkey gathering around Jerusalem, surrounding them, then being destroyed by fire from above. The end of the "millennium" is not and was not to be the end of earth's history. It was just the end of the story and we have no more insight into the future. The millennium began with the return of Christ's presence to reign with His church circa 70 AD and it ended 1,000 years later in 1071 AD.

After the fall of Jerusalem, Palestine and Jerusalem became almost exclusively Christian. In 1071 AD, the Turks invaded Palestine and incited the Crusades. During the first crusade, Christians launched firebrands into Muslim occupied Jerusalem literally fulfilling Rev 20:9. During this same war, the Muslim Turks surrounded Crusader-occupied Antioch. And amidst this siege an eye-witness said that fire from heaven fell upon the camp of the Seljuk Turks besieging the city: “There appeared a fire in the sky, coming from the west, and it approached and fell upon the Turkish army, to the great astonishment of our men [the Crusaders inside Antioch] and of the Turks also. In the morning the Turks, who were all scared by the fire, took flight in panic.”1 Here we see how Gog and Magog “marched across the breath of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.” (Revelation 20:9)

This concludes all the prophesy of the Bible. There is nothing mentioned about our future although we know history repeats. We will all die and immediately go to heaven and be given our spiritual bodies at that time. The level of our brightness (glory), is our reward as Paul taught in 1 Cor 15.

 

[PlainWord]

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV)1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

The Amil position works the best for reconciling the signified tongue of God.

I would offer according to the signified prophecy of Revelation . The first resurrection signified by. . It is finished was the beginning the millennium, an unknown , as the last days.

It remains open. To be absent from the corrupted body of death is to be in the presence of God. . dead asleep. .

Open until the last day an unknown. We walk by faith not looking to the temporal. the last day will come as a thief in the night. No outward sign as to the day hour or year. Its an evil generation natural man that does seek to make the signified interpretation the literal. No sign is given other than the sign of the times. Everything continues going as the day before. Just as in the time of Noah.

Notice the phrase, "must shortly come to pass?" "He shewed his servants." Who were the servants He showed? What did He show them? "things which must (not may) shortly come to pass" to that generation, not some future generation to us.

Mt 12:39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.

Who did Christ identify as the "evil and adulterous generation?" The very generation He was talking to. What do you think was "the sign of Jonah?" Was Nineveh to be destroyed if they didn't turn away from evil? Thus would Jerusalem be destroyed if they didn't? We know the answer of what happened to Jerusalem.

 

[garee]

but then they didnt reign for a thousand years? because when was the rebellion at the end of millennium?

We who are alive on earth are reigning with Christ. It began when he said ; it is finished . The signal of the last days.. a unknown. A Kingdom of priest from all nations as Ambassadors sent as apostles from a foreign land the new heavenly, Jerusalem . The city he is prepared as his eternal wife or bride the church.

We are not of the number as those who do number days or people. Many died when David did not walk by faith a unknow .
we do not measure faith a unknown by that known the teerpmoal things of this world we lak by faith the eternal not seen it is our living hope for the things not seen

This includes the metaphor 144, 000 a unknow

2 Corinthians 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

David said it a foolish thing (no god in his planning) to number days or people rather than walking by faith... after the unseen eternal .
The temporal will go up in smoke on the last day.

2 Samuel 24:10 And David's heart smote him after that he had numbered the people. And David said unto the Lord, I have sinned greatly in that I have done: and now, I beseech thee, O Lord, take away the iniquity of thy servant; for I have done very foolishly.

 

[Melach]

Rebellion?? That word is not used. "Deceive" is used. Read the text of Rev 20 then I will show you how it was fulfilled.

Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

So what we have is Gog, which is the area of today's Turkey gathering around Jerusalem, surrounding them, then being destroyed by fire from above. The end of the "millennium" is not and was not to be the end of earth's history. It was just the end of the story and we have no more insight into the future. The millennium began with the return of Christ's presence to reign with His church circa 70 AD and it ended 1,000 years later in 1071 AD.

After the fall of Jerusalem, Palestine and Jerusalem became almost exclusively Christian. In 1071 AD, the Turks invaded Palestine and incited the Crusades. During the first crusade, Christians launched firebrands into Muslim occupied Jerusalem literally fulfilling Rev 20:9. During this same war, the Muslim Turks surrounded Crusader-occupied Antioch. And amidst this siege an eye-witness said that fire from heaven fell upon the camp of the Seljuk Turks besieging the city: “There appeared a fire in the sky, coming from the west, and it approached and fell upon the Turkish army, to the great astonishment of our men [the Crusaders inside Antioch] and of the Turks also. In the morning the Turks, who were all scared by the fire, took flight in panic.”1 Here we see how Gog and Magog “marched across the breath of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.” (Revelation 20:9)

This concludes all the prophesy of the Bible. There is nothing mentioned about our future although we know history repeats. We will all die and immediately go to heaven and be given our spiritual bodies at that time. The level of our brightness (glory), is our reward as Paul taught in 1 Cor 15.

then we should be in the new heaven and new earth already if millennium ended in 1071 AD

thats crazy teaching

 

[PlainWord]

PEOPLE. Read Mat 24 and pay close attention. The disciples asked for signs of the return of Christ's presence and the end of their age. Here is the actual, literal translation of this passage.

`Tell us, when shall these be? and what [is] the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?'

It was NOT to be the end of earth's history. We know this because later in Mat 24 Jesus says this:

For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

"Ever be" implies more history to be made. The GREAT TRIBULATION in focus here was the siege of Jerusalem when 1.1 million out of 1.2 million non-believing Jews would die in the most horrific ways. Mothers would eat their children out of starvation. Men would chew the leather of their belts. Josephus records it as the worst human tragedy the world had ever known. He goes on to say that those in the city were the most wicked the world ever saw, just like in the days of Noah.

 

[PlainWord]

then we should be in the new heaven and new earth already if millennium ended in 1071 AD

thats crazy teaching

My dear friend. Don't be stuck in your temporal, physical realm thinking. We are not citizens of this physical, earthly realm. Start living in the spirit. Maybe this will help, but I doubt it:

In this Preterist commentary on Revelation 21, compelling evidence is presented showing that the new Jerusalem exists right now! In Revelation 21:2 John sees the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven as a symbolic illustration of Philippians 3:20, Hebrews 11:13, and John 17:16. Philippians 3:20 says that “our citizenship is in heaven.” Hebrews 11:13 refers to the saints as “strangers and exiles on the earth.” John 17:16 echoes this idea when referring to Himself and the saints, Jesus says, “They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.” In Revelation 21:2 the New Jerusalem is depicted coming down from heaven to earth illustrating the fact that the saints are of heaven as stated in John 17:16. The fact that the saints are “strangers and exiles on the earth[,]” “not of the world” and have their “citizenship in heaven” is depicted in Revelation 21 as the new Jerusalem seen coming down from heaven.

There is more to the imagery of Revelation 21 and 22. The New Jerusalem is a symbolic depiction of the victorious church on earth largely portrayed in the image of the Jerusalem that is in heaven mentioned in Hebrews 12:22 and Galatians 4:26. In other words, the new Jerusalem like the Temple IS quite literally a microcosmic representation of the new heaven and new earth predicted in Revelation 21:1. Accounts of heaven from near-death experiences strikingly resemble the new Jerusalem of Revelation 21. Throughout Revelation 21 and 22 the triumphant Christian church whether it exists in heaven or earth is symbolically portrayed in the image of the Jerusalem that is in heaven. Because the Christian church is present both on earth and in heaven and because the Christian church on earth is destined for heaven, the new Jerusalem is the church described in the likeness of heaven. Thus Revelation 21 and 22 follow the precedent set in Ezekiel 28 and 37 in which earthly realties are portrayed in heavenly trappings.

There is also historical significance to this imagery. For a 1000 years after the Jewish War, Jerusalem grew to become an almost exclusively Christian city. Thus the fact that the Christian church on earth is called the new Jerusalem is an appropriate title. Since the new Jerusalem is the Christian church reigning on earth it, of course, represents the Christianized Jerusalem that was on earth during the thousand years between the Jewish War and the Crusades. The peaceful bliss of post-war Jerusalem is meant to contrast the then present joy with the previous despair of war. The new Jerusalem is also described as a utopia in order to symbolize and mirror the Jerusalem that is in heaven awaiting the saints after the resurrection.

 

[Hevosmies]

My dear friend. Don't be stuck in your temporal, physical realm thinking. We are not citizens of this physical, earthly realm. Start living in the spirit. Maybe this will help, but I doubt it:

In this Preterist commentary on Revelation 21, compelling evidence is presented showing that the new Jerusalem exists right now! In Revelation 21:2 John sees the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven as a symbolic illustration of Philippians 3:20, Hebrews 11:13, and John 17:16. Philippians 3:20 says that “our citizenship is in heaven.” Hebrews 11:13 refers to the saints as “strangers and exiles on the earth.” John 17:16 echoes this idea when referring to Himself and the saints, Jesus says, “They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.” In Revelation 21:2 the New Jerusalem is depicted coming down from heaven to earth illustrating the fact that the saints are of heaven as stated in John 17:16. The fact that the saints are “strangers and exiles on the earth[,]” “not of the world” and have their “citizenship in heaven” is depicted in Revelation 21 as the new Jerusalem seen coming down from heaven.

There is more to the imagery of Revelation 21 and 22. The New Jerusalem is a symbolic depiction of the victorious church on earth largely portrayed in the image of the Jerusalem that is in heaven mentioned in Hebrews 12:22 and Galatians 4:26. In other words, the new Jerusalem like the Temple IS quite literally a microcosmic representation of the new heaven and new earth predicted in Revelation 21:1. Accounts of heaven from near-death experiences strikingly resemble the new Jerusalem of Revelation 21. Throughout Revelation 21 and 22 the triumphant Christian church whether it exists in heaven or earth is symbolically portrayed in the image of the Jerusalem that is in heaven. Because the Christian church is present both on earth and in heaven and because the Christian church on earth is destined for heaven, the new Jerusalem is the church described in the likeness of heaven. Thus Revelation 21 and 22 follow the precedent set in Ezekiel 28 and 37 in which earthly realties are portrayed in heavenly trappings.

There is also historical significance to this imagery. For a 1000 years after the Jewish War, Jerusalem grew to become an almost exclusively Christian city. Thus the fact that the Christian church on earth is called the new Jerusalem is an appropriate title. Since the new Jerusalem is the Christian church reigning on earth it, of course, represents the Christianized Jerusalem that was on earth during the thousand years between the Jewish War and the Crusades. The peaceful bliss of post-war Jerusalem is meant to contrast the then present joy with the previous despair of war. The new Jerusalem is also described as a utopia in order to symbolize and mirror the Jerusalem that is in heaven awaiting the saints after the resurrection.

The real question on everyone's lips is: WHAT do you got to look forward to? Other than DYING and going to heaven?

 

[garee]

So what we have is Gog, which is the area of today's Turkey gathering around Jerusalem, surrounding them, then being destroyed by fire from above. The end of the "millennium" is not and was not to be the end of earth's history. It was just the end of the story and we have no more insight into the future. The millennium began with the return of Christ's presence to reign with His church circa 70 AD and it ended 1,000 years later in 1071 AD.

The beloved city as the bride of Christ is not reckoned after Jerusalem the earthly city of corruption. But the heavenly Jerusalem not seen. The thousand year there reflects the 9 uses in other locations. as a unknown The metaphor thousand used signifies an unkown unrevealed.. We walk by faith not looking to a signs and wonderment gospel

We must compare the spiritual unseen understanding called walking by faith . The gospel of Faith to faith. The unseen understanding to the same. it does not change from a signified understanding to a literal as what the eyes see (the temporal ).No need for that.

Not one change in 9 . The word as denotes a parable is in view.

Psalm 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night

Ecclesiastes 6:6Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?


2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Revelation 20:3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 20:4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

What is the signified meaning of a key or a chain, bottomless pit, serpent, beheaded souls..etc

 

[PlainWord]

Back to the signs Jesus gives when asked in Mat 24. Notice, NOT ONE sign describes our modern planet. No mention of tall cities, of planes, trains or automobiles, no mention of rockets, nuclear bombs, computers or any of our present day technology. In fact, ALL THE SIGNS are consistent with first century life.

People don't sleep on rooftops anymore because we have A/C. In the middle of the signs, Jesus says this:

9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.

Who was He speaking to when He says, "you?" Was He talking about us? Or, and this might sound crazy, was He talking to them? Did His disciples suffer any persecution (tribulation) and were 11 of 12 killed for His name's sake??? Think about it.

You futurists want to make everything about us and in so doing you make nothing about them. They were the ones Christ spoke to about things they would see and endure. The Law, their country, their city and their temple were about to come to an end. 2,000 years of an age, a way of life was about to end. Everything they knew, all their history and standing as a nation for centuries was on the verge of total annihilation!!! You guys want to make it all about you.

Luke 19 tells you all you need to know about what was coming and it call came back then:

41 Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, 42 saying, “If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. 43 For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, 44 and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”

 

[PlainWord]

The real question on everyone's lips is: WHAT do you got to look forward to? Other than DYING and going to heaven?

Is there anything better to look forward to than being in Heaven with our Father and Savior? That's enough for me. You go ahead and look forward to a great tribulation if you want.

 

[garee]

Back to the signs Jesus gives when asked in Mat 24. Notice, NOT ONE sign describes our modern planet. No mention of tall cities, of planes, trains or automobiles, no mention of rockets, nuclear bombs, computers or any of our present day technology. In fact, ALL THE SIGNS are consistent with first century life.

People don't sleep on rooftops anymore because we have A/C. In the middle of the signs, Jesus says this:

9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.

Who was He speaking to when He says, "you?" Was He talking about us? Or, and this might sound crazy, was He talking to them? Did His disciples suffer any persecution (tribulation) and were 11 of 12 killed for His name's sake??? Think about it.

You futurists want to make everything about us and in so doing you make nothing about them. They were the ones Christ spoke to about things they would see and endure. The Law, their country, their city and their temple were about to come to an end. 2,000 years of an age, a way of life was about to end. Everything they knew, all their history and standing as a nation for centuries was on the verge of total annihilation!!! You guys want to make it all about you.

Luke 19 tells you all you need to know about what was coming and it call came back then:

41 Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, 42 saying, “If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. 43 For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, 44 and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”

I would think ALL THE SIGN metaphors are consistent with the spiritual understanding . Shout it from the roof top. . a high place not
seen.

Preach it from a mountain top signifying the kingdoms of the world. Preach it from the desk top, or lap top . Let the finger of God do the walking, convincing.

I would offer the spiritual understanding (gospel) is hid in the parable below.

Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known. What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops. Mathew 10:26-27

No need for a air conditioner when we have the condition of knowing God working in us to both will and perform his good pleasue.

Its heat we Wisconsinites need especially when reaching the ages of 60's or 70's. Roof top insolation wears thin.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Like i said before, it must be an unsettling thought for you to imagine, even for a second, that AMERICA could be Babylon The Great.

The thought of the US being Babylon is not unsettling to me in any way, so please stop inferring that. My purpose is to contend for the truth. America in no way could be Babylon and that because the woman is a city that sits on seven hills, which you continue to ignore. Those clues were put there for those who are searching the truth of God's word, which we should be adhering to.

The Book of Revelations is a book of Prophecy, not CNN Breaking News for the days of Apostle John !! He was shown FUTURE EVENTS not what existed in his day !!

I never said that it was CNN breaking news, you just did.

Everything referenced there is for us, the future generations, otherwise why would the Apostle speak of the Mark of The Beast ?? Was it present during the Roman Empire period in which they lived, were people branded with a mark to Buy & Sell ??

I agree that Revelation is regarding the future. When John was receiving this information from the angel, Roman Catholicism didn't even exist. The clues pointing to Rome are for us in the future who have seen the history of this counterfeit church of Rome and her evolution. We also need to look ahead at what she will become.

Again, I'll point you to the most important portion of Babylon's characteristics - SHE IS AN ECONOMIC POWER WHO USES THIS POWER TO CONTROL OTHER NATIONS !!

And I will remind you again, that this is what she is going to become when that beast emerges and puts the woman back in power. You're only looking at her from her current state and not what she is going to become when that antichrist appears. The very fact that the scripture says that the woman is a city should end this issue, but for some reason you keep implying that the United States as a nation fits the description of the city that sits on seven hills. Rome was literally built on and is famous for her seven hills. All of the clues point to Rome and her religious headquarters, the Vatican.

Do you think the VATICAN IS AN ECONOMIC POWER WHOSE DESTRUCTION WILL CAUSE THE WHOLE WORLD TO CRY OUT IN DESPAIR ?????

Yes, because she will be in power at that time and from the scripture, everyone will be buying her merchandise. You need to look ahead at what she is going to become. The description of Rome/Vatican is both as a religious and economical power. Obviously you have no idea as to all that Roman Catholicism owns and her current wealth.

I agree that the POPE is an influential figure in the World but, he and the system he controls, has a part to play in the APOCALYPSE as the Founders of the ONE-WORLD RELIGION that will be part of the eventual BEAST System that controls the whole world.

Many influential spirit-filled Christian leaders like the late Rev. Billy Graham already believe that America and the World is under GOD'S judgement - look out at our world today full of evil and corruption which is readily embraced by the people; Who provides this evil that has moved across the world at such an alarming pace ?

We are in agreement, except that neither America, nor any of the other nations are yet under God's judgment, but it will begin after the church has been gathered.

How many believers today have obtained salvation because of the many efforts of faithful American Believers who send missionaries, provide tools for evangelism like Bibles, Christian Broadcasters like TBN Network ?? MANY !!!

But, the same AMERICA, provides the filth that pollutes the world and its inhabitants even CHRISTIAN BRETHREN - PORNOGRAPHY AVAILABLE ON EVERY DEVICE ON-DEMAND, IDOL-WORSHIPING HOLLYWOOD MEDIA MACHINE, LGBTQ+ Activism ACROSS THE WORLD !!!

The Judgement will be greater on AMERICA because she should have known better and not been Lukewarm - TO WHOM MUCH IS GIVEN, MUCH IS EXPECTED IN RETURN !!!

You just described the entire world. You should not single America out, because this is condition of all nations, which is why the time of God's wrath is coming and will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.

You seem to be set in your opinions and because i know we both have our opinions, let's agree to disagree.

In parting, i guess it does not really matter if Babylon the Great is America because GOD will judge us as individuals for the lives we've led - AMERICA WILL NOT BE THROWN INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE FOR HER SINS, ONLY WE WILL IF WE ARE NOT CAREFUL.

The reason that I am so adamant about it, is because I have studied it for most of my life. When the Lord first called me at the age of 14, I was immediately drawn to end-time events and have been studying them ever since. What you are not seeing is what is going to happen with the pope and his church once the antichrist is revealed.

In coming to our conclusions regarding prophecy, we have to address and apply the information given and America doesn't fit any of them. In order to make the US as being Babylon, one would have to sweep under the rug all the information given about her.

As you said above, we are all going to be judged on an individual bases, not because we live in the US or any other nation. God does not punish the righteous with the wicked. For there are many in every nation who belong to Christ. This is why the Lord is going to first gather His church and then pour out His wrath upon the entire Christ rejecting world and not just any one specific country. The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will affect all the inhabitants on the earth.

But as you say, we can agree to disagree on this matter.

Blessings in Christ!

 

[PlainWord]

I would think ALL THE SIGN metaphors are consistent with the spiritual understanding . Shout it from the roof top. . a high place not
seen.

Preach it from a mountain top signifying the kingdoms of the world. Preach it from the desk top, or lap top . Let the finger of God do the walking, convincing.

I would offer the spiritual understanding (gospel) is hid in the parable below.

Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known. What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops. Mathew 10:26-27

No need for a air conditioner when we have the condition of knowing God working in us to both will and perform his good pleasue.

Its heat we Wisconsinites need especially when reaching the ages of 60's or 70's. Roof top insolation wears thin.

I'm in Vegas and its freaking cold here too right now. I'm so mad at Al Gore. There's no global warming. The planet has actually cooled 0.2 degrees since 1976.

Anyway, the signs of Mat 24:4-14 were all literal. They were all signs leading up to "the end [of Israel]." The subject was the destruction of the temple, nothing else was in focus. "When would this happen?" was the question. Everything Jesus lists preceded the events of 70 AD.

1. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. ​

2. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. ​

3. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. ​

4. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. ​

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. Thus the above happens before the below.

5. Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. ​

6. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. ​

7. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. ​

8. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. ​

9. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations​

​

and then the end [of the age] will come. All 9 of these signs happened in the exact order Christ gave them prior to the fall of the temple.