Mystery Babylon

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Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#1
Am not really sure about the identity of this , some people say its Jerusalem, others say its Rome.

What does the Bible say.
What do you think? Any clues. Is it past, or is it future.

I dont really know what to believe. Certainly its a wealthy city that falls. There are many wealthy cities nowadays, but which one has all the influence of the entire world?

Or is it the UN or some other global organisation.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,072
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#2
Harlotry in the Word means going away from the Maker of all that is to play the harlot with false teachings. The woman on seven hills is the great harlot or whore, who is also the mother of harlots. This bears a lifetime of meditation or revelation at one time by the Holy Spirit.

Yes, Rom is on seven Hills and the Vatican is in Rome.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
8,556
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#3
Am not really sure about the identity of this , some people say its Jerusalem, others say its Rome.

What does the Bible say.
What do you think? Any clues. Is it past, or is it future.

I dont really know what to believe. Certainly its a wealthy city that falls. There are many wealthy cities nowadays, but which one has all the influence of the entire world?

Or is it the UN or some other global organisation.
Hello again,

Just like with all Biblical subjects, we must look to the word of God for the answers. I have posted on this topic many times in refutation of those who claim that Babylon the Great as being Jerusalem. Therefore, let's look at the clues that God gives us in His word:

1). The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.” - Rev.17:18

So, the woman who rides the beast, is representing that great city that rules over the kings of the earth. At the time that John was receiving this information from the angel, Rome was that city that was ruling over the kings of the earth, not Jerusalem. When has Jerusalem ever ruled over the kings of the earth? The answer would be, never.

2). This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits - Rev.17:19

Rome was literally built on and is famous for her seven hills. They even use the seven hills as a lure for tourism in their ads. Though many attempt to have Jerusalem sitting on seven hills/mountains, she does not. They attempt to force Jerusalem to be sitting on seven hills in support of their belief. The reference to the woman/city sitting on seven hills, is referring to her religious headquarters.

In Rev.17:1, the woman is also said to be sitting on "many waters," which is referring to the influence of the woman's Babylonian based religious system, which is why she is called "Mystery, Babylon the Great." Regarding the "many waters" we are told in Rev.17:15 that the waters represent "peoples and multitudes and nations and languages," which again would refer to the woman's religious world-wide influence over all people. Within Roman Catholicism can be found many of the rites and rituals which stem from Babylon. This is evident with their worship of Mary, which stems from Babylon's "Queen of heaven" worship" which was transposed upon her. Then you also have "mother and son worship, which stems from Semiramis and Tamuz, Isis and Horus, etc., and was transposed upon Mary and Jesus. Even the Mitre hat that the pope and other bishops wear, closely resembles the fish hat that the Philistine's priests of Dagon wore.

3). The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls. - Rev.17:4

There are those who have attempted to apply the purple and scarlet to the colors worn by the priest's of Israel, which is just another forced attempt while ignoring the rest of the clues. We have already seen that Jerusalem does not fit any of the previous clues and therefore purple and scarlet cannot be pointing to Israel's priests.

This is just one more clue to who the woman is, for purple and scarlet are the exact colors worn by the bishops and cardinals within Roman Catholicism:

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Regarding her being adorned with gold and precious stones, this speaks of her luxury. Most of the utensils, candle sticks, plates, etc., are either made of pure gold or overlaid with it. But, even though these clues identify Rome as that great city, there is one more very conclusive reason as to why Babylon the Great, that city that sits on seven hills, cannot be referring to Jerusalem. In Rev.18:21-23 Babylon the Great is destroyed, so much so, that no one will ever be able to inhabit her again, as can be concluded from the information below:

* With such violence the great city of Babylon will be cast down, never to be seen again.

* And the sound of harpists and musicians, of flute players and trumpeters, will never ring out in you again.

* Nor will any craftsmen of any trade be found in you again, nor the sound of a millstone be heard in you again.

* The light of a lamp will never shine in you again,

* and the voices of a bride and bridegroom will never call out in you again.

It is apparent from the information above, that whatever is going to destroy that great city is also going to keep people from inhabiting it ever again. Her destruction takes place during the last 3 1/2 years of the great tribulation period, which is prior to the millennial kingdom. Below is the reason why Jerusalem cannot be Babylon the Great:

"When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them." - Rev.20:7-9

As the scripture states, the event above takes place after Satan is released, which is at the end of the thousand years. It reveals that the people figuratively called Gog and Magog will surround the camp of God's people, the city that He loves, which could only be referring to Jerusalem. This demonstrates that Jerusalem will be inhabited during the millennial period up to the very end. Where in opposition, Babylon the great will be destroyed prior to the millennial kingdom, ergo, Babylon the Great cannot possibly be referring to Jerusalem.
 

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Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
1,218
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#4
i agree with ahwatukee its probably rome. it fits the description and the historical idea from book of revelation

i heard some say its america, but rome fits bible more.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
8,556
1,020
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#5
i agree with ahwatukee its probably rome. it fits the description and the historical idea from book of revelation

i heard some say its america, but rome fits bible more.
Hello Melach. And God bless you for recognizing the truth. The problem with those who claim that Babylon the Great as referring to America is that for one, America is a nation and not a city. They like to ignore that very important fact. America also does not sit on seven hills. Also, at the time that John was receiving this information from the Angel, America was not ruling over the kings of the earth, nor does she currently.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
4,111
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#6
Ok, interesting. Was it the roman empire and romans that killed Jesus. Was Rome a big city in Jesus time. How did it start?
Wasn't Paul killed by the romans too, and all the apostles. He got that far before he was matyred.
The letter to Romans wasnt even written in Rome, Paul was writing it to them, before he even got there. Didnt he get imprisoned by the Romans?

One thing I dont understand about roman catholic church is they claim Peter founded their church when Peter didnt even go to Rome. It was Paul that was going to go there, cos he was apostle to the gentiles.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#7
Babylon started in babylon (hence the name) It is the religious system which travelled with the people at the dispersion. It found its way in the bible through Israel and her being caught up into her pagan roots (Baal Worship, Egyptian Gods and Goddesses And many other names, it is found in Greek mythology and roman mythology. And is even in power today.

It is the religious system which acts as the prostitute which has perverted the nations.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,411
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#8
Am not really sure about the identity of this , some people say its Jerusalem, others say its Rome.
Mystery Babylon is NOT the wicked city of Babylon, or Rome, or Jerusalem, but the sum total of all the religious systems which are evil and idolatrous (including false Christianity which has the cult of Mary).

Mystery Babylon began with Nimrod and the tower of Babel, which was constructed to worship the host of heaven (essentially evil spirits). This pagan and idolatrous system spread throughout the world, and included the worship of Satan. It was found in Babylon, Egypt, Greece, Rome, India, China, and South America and they all have certain common elements, particularly polytheism and idol worship.

And when Satan and the Antichrist take total control of the earth for 42 months (3 1/2 years) Mystery Babylon will become the religion of the world. All the inhabitants of the world will be compelled to worship Satan, the Antichrist, and the Abomination of Desolation (a living and speaking idol set up in the future temple at Jerusalem). See Revelation 13.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
8,556
1,020
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#9
Mystery Babylon is NOT the wicked city of Babylon, or Rome, or Jerusalem, but the sum total of all the religious systems which are evil and idolatrous (including false Christianity which has the cult of Mary).

Mystery Babylon began with Nimrod and the tower of Babel, which was constructed to worship the host of heaven (essentially evil spirits). This pagan and idolatrous system spread throughout the world, and included the worship of Satan. It was found in Babylon, Egypt, Greece, Rome, India, China, and South America and they all have certain common elements, particularly polytheism and idol worship.

And when Satan and the Antichrist take total control of the earth for 42 months (3 1/2 years) Mystery Babylon will become the religion of the world. All the inhabitants of the world will be compelled to worship Satan, the Antichrist, and the Abomination of Desolation (a living and speaking idol set up in the future temple at Jerusalem). See Revelation 13.
Hi Nehemiah,

Scripture states that the woman who rides the beast, Babylon the great, as being a city, which sits on seven hills/mountains. How can "the sum total of all the religious systems" be a city that sits on seven hills? It has to be an actual city and that city is Rome/Vatican with her false system of Roman Catholicism, which sits on seven hills and which contains most of the rites and practices of Pagan Babylon. The city of Rome/Vatican is the headquarters for Mystery, Babylon. Not the actual city of Babylon, but Rome with her pagan religious system stemming from Babylon.

We have to stick with the clues that scripture gives to us. That said, the woman is a city, which sits on seven hills and which is the headquarters of that religious system which is composed of the pagan religious rites and rituals of ancient Babylon.

In addition, that she is a literal city can be seen by the fact that all the merchants, captains and all those who make their living on the sea will be far off when they see the smoke of her burning and say "Woe! Woe! O great city." In fact, when you read the entire context, it is not possible that the woman who rides the beast, Babylon the great, as representing the "sum total of all the religious systems" in the world. The scripture is speaking about a specific city representing her Babylonian practices. How could "the sum total of all religious systems" be that city that ruled over the kings of the earth? It just doesn't fit any of the God given clues.

Roman Catholicism is going to play the part of the woman who rides the beast, with her headquarters being Rome/Vatican as that city that sits on seven hills.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
9,411
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#10
It has to be an actual city and that city is Rome/Vatican with her false system of Roman Catholicism, which sits on seven hills and which contains most of the rites and practices of Pagan Babylon.
Most commentators agree with you in that Mystery Babylon is Roman Catholicism or the papal system. But since we cannot divorce the reign of the Antichrist from Mystery Babylon (which will definitely include Roman Catholicism), it would seem that Jerusalem will become the center of power -- political, economic, and religious -- with the Antichrist sitting in the temple of God, claiming that he is God, and the Abomination of Desolation also sitting in the Holy Place. Which means that Rome will become a satellite of Jerusalem at this time. Even after the literal city of Babylon is destroyed (Rev 18) we see that the Antichrist gathers his armies for the battle of Armageddon (Rev 19). Thus the connection to Mystery Babylon (Rev 17).
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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#11
What about Islam though...isnt Muhammad a false prophet and didnt they set up the dome of the rock on the site of the holy of holies? Isnt Muhammed an anti-christ who denies Jesus came in the flesh.
As far as I know, catholicsim doesnt outright deny Jesus came in the flesh.
Also the trade in luxury goods is very prevalent in nations under islamic rule. Some rulers or kings are wealthy beyond belief.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
16,072
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#12
God's ways are not our ways. Even though we are warned in th e Old Testament and also in part in the New Testament that we should not add nor take away from God's word, it is also writtn in the OT about Ishmael, the fater of the ascentry of the Arabs that he would be a wild people. He is also cited for fathering twelve princes……...all of this in our Bible, so we do not add the Koran to our teaching from God for that would be blasphemy, however we judge no man, especially only by appearances.
 

Mii

Well-known member
Mar 23, 2019
701
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#13
I wouldn't discount the U.S offhand. The Vatican certainly has worldly influence and it may play a large role as far as putting a "seal of approval" on something (as it typically does) but it's more of a title than the actual substance thereof.

Rev 11:18 is also pretty interesting to note and that's the only verse that popped in mind when referring to figurative language describing a city that is also relevant to the discussion.

Have you considered city meaning "city-state"?

Rome meant the city of Rome but also the Roman republic.

To be figurative as well as literal is not something that is impossible.


Consider also "a city that shines on a hill" I'm not trying to cast doubt on whether certain passages are literal or figurative. I am suggesting that it gets dicey and as we "keep a weather eye out" waiting for his return and make ready as we feel personally led it will all become clearer each day :)
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,074
14,700
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#17
i agree with ahwatukee its probably rome. it fits the description and the historical idea from book of revelation

i heard some say its america, but rome fits bible more.
80 characteristics found in Psalms, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Habakkuk and Revelation, 13 chapters of the bible....10.5 billion to 1 which entity it is....it is not Rome!
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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#19
What about Islam though...isnt Muhammad a false prophet and didnt they set up the dome of the rock on the site of the holy of holies? Isnt Muhammed an anti-christ who denies Jesus came in the flesh.
As far as I know, catholicsim doesnt outright deny Jesus came in the flesh.
Also the trade in luxury goods is very prevalent in nations under islamic rule. Some rulers or kings are wealthy beyond belief.
No, Islam outright denies Christ. Antichrist, by definition, must claim to represent Messiah (Christ). And he must do this under a false banner and doctrine. He is also defined as "the son of perdition." The Pope calls himself "In place of Christ."

2 Thess. 2:3, 4 "Let not anyone deceive you by any means. For that Day shall not come unless there first comes a falling away, and the man of sin shall be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself forth, that he is God."

We can then conclude that papal Rome fits Babylon, Antichrist and son of perdition all.:)
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
42,074
14,700
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#20
No, Islam outright denies Christ. Antichrist, by definition, must claim to represent Messiah (Christ). And he must do this under a false banner and doctrine. He is also defined as "the son of perdition." The Pope calls himself "In place of Christ."

2 Thess. 2:3, 4 "Let not anyone deceive you by any means. For that Day shall not come unless there first comes a falling away, and the man of sin shall be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself forth, that he is God."

We can then conclude that papal Rome fits Babylon, Antichrist and son of perdition all.:)
No, we cannot conclude that.....sorry.....Rome does have a part for sure ---->FALSE PROPHET............