Mysticism & righteousness

miknik5 · Jun 19, 2016

Please explain 1Corinthians 3 with regards to THE FOUNDATION.
And if there is any confusion with "religious words", we can always speak first about the prophecy in Zechariah 4 with regards to "THE TRUE HOUSE which the SON will build"...whose hand will lay the foundation, and whose hand will complete it...

Do you agree with these words as they are NOT my words but are the WORD of TRUTH which can only be revealed by HIS SPIRIT...

PeterJens · Jun 19, 2016

miknik5 said:

For some here they have changed the language and the main precepts of its meaning so what I say means something different to them than it does to me. I was surprised this had happened in the church, but grace7 preaches from this school of thought. Maybe you are not aware of this.

miknik5 · Jun 19, 2016

Another thing, Peter...why are you doing this?
Why do you go beyond what is written?
For if you SEE your brother sin, then you should tell him his son (in private).

But to imply and accuse your brother of sin, when you have not seen his sin?

No, that is going beyond THE HEAD...which is CHRIST JESUS...
HE alone gets to judge..
And HE alone judges justly.
For HE looks and lays bare the hidden agenda of the heart and the mind of all men to see what is done in CHRIST...
And HE won't be fooled
And HE won't make a wrong judgment.

miknik5 · Jun 19, 2016

PeterJens said:

GRACE?

You mean the TRUTH that they will take out the CAPSTONE to shouts of GRACE, GRACE unto it?

Do you mean THAT GRACE?
Visibly and clearly seen in THE ONE whom THE FATHER sent for the sins of the world?

miknik5 · Jun 19, 2016

PeterJens said:

I would say I was baptized with the HOLY SPIRIT through the FAITH which also is a gift from GOD, because GOD opened the eyes and ears of my heart to the knee-buckling/heart-rending TRUTH of CHRIST and the MESSAGE of THE CROSS, and there was nothing else that I could do, but understand the TRUTH of THE GOSPEL, understand how far all have fallen short of GOD'S GLORY, understand how ALL were in need of a SAVIOR...

And it was then that I was baptized into CHRIST and risen in HIM a NEW CREATION set apart and marked as belonging to GOD in HIS SON..born again, washed, the soul of my slate wiped clean, a NEW CREATION by HIS LIFE-GIVING SPIRIT...

It was afterwards, in my glorying that it was made evident that what GOD had done, was done...

If you do not believe this,
Go review the story of Cornelius and understand that when the HOLY SPIRIT was poured out, there isn't ANYTHING that you can do to STOP from GLORIFYING CHRIST

For that is exactly what the HOLY SPIRIT does.
HE glorifies THE SON...to the GLORY of THE FATHER...

Also, review Acts 18 and 19 and understand that those born of HIS SPIRIT were able to discern something "off" in Apollos...and when Paul heard about it, he went back to Apollos' home to "see about Apollos' disciples".

I suggest you read that as well...

miknik5 · Jun 19, 2016

I am leaving for the day,.

If you are a disciple of HIS and your eyes are on those who are still outside THE DOOR, you would do better to point them to THE DOOR and let the ONE who is THE SHEPHERD shepherd HIS SHEEP

One thing is that HIS SHEEP know HIS VOICE now...which is why they won't listen to any one else...nor do they have to.
They go to HIM and HE feeds them the PURE FOOD which is sufficient.

I am sorry, Peter...but the sheep can recognize the PURE ((UNADULTERATED)) BREAD which comes from the hand of GOD, from the "yeast" that comes from and by the hand of men...

PeterJens · Jun 19, 2016

miknik5 said:

You maybe not aware of it but some people simply do not accept we are humans but eternal beings in human form. There is a theology which says we are mortal because of the fall, but we become again eternal once we accept Christ.

Now this kind of back story does not play on simple scripture because the same words play but with different meanings.
A lot of this happens with christian cultures and the words are well known but not the base assumptions. Changing them slightly you end up with mormon ideas, JW ideas and it now appears mysticism ideas.

Now to a normal person who takes life as it comes, it is much simpler. We are sinners who need to be saved through Christ to righteousness.

Here on cc you are coming into some very interlectual people with many well developed ideas which take time to get your head around. So maybe we are just coming from different experiences and you are very new to this environment. Things are not necessarily what they appear. We are trying to understand these differences more which is why we engage in such conversations.

PeterJens · Jun 19, 2016

miknik5 said:

I am leaving for the day,.

If you are a disciple of HIS and your eyes are on those who are still outside THE DOOR, you would do better to point them to THE DOOR and let the ONE who is THE SHEPHERD shepherd HIS SHEEP

One thing is that HIS SHEEP know HIS VOICE now...which is why they won't listen to any one else...nor do they have to.
They go to HIM and HE feeds them the PURE FOOD which is sufficient.

I am sorry, Peter...but the sheep can recognize the PURE ((UNADULTERATED)) BREAD which comes from the hand of GOD, from the "yeast" that comes from and by the hand of men...

The sheep also need people who can call out, so they can know where to go next.
But you are right as well.

miknik5 · Jun 19, 2016

PeterJens said:

You maybe not aware of it but some people simply do not accept we are humans but eternal beings in human form. There is a theology which says we are mortal because of the fall, but we become again eternal once we accept Christ.

Now this kind of back story does not play on simple scripture because the same words play but with different meanings.
A lot of this happens with christian cultures and the words are well known but not the base assumptions. Changing them slightly you end up with mormon ideas, JW ideas and it now appears mysticism ideas.

Now to a normal person who takes life as it comes, it is much simpler. We are sinners who need to be saved through Christ to righteousness.

Here on cc you are coming into some very interlectual people with many well developed ideas which take time to get your head around. So maybe we are just coming from different experiences and you are very new to this environment. Things are not necessarily what they appear. We are trying to understand these differences more which is why we engage in such conversations.

I don't care about that...it will be made manifest by the words who clings to words and who clings to HIM!

By the way, "a child" clings to their Parent...and their love is very simple...

miknik5 · Jun 19, 2016

PeterJens said:

Where can they go "next"?
And why would they go anywhere than where they are?
See that is the problem...
Too many do not simply REMAIN IN HIM, trusting in HIM.
But this too will be made manifest...
For GOD is a launderer and a purifier, and HE prunes and refines so that our faith (more precious than gold though tried in the fire) will prove genuine...

Faith directed in and on HIM and HIM alone
It is so very easy to have faith on those mountaintops
But another thing completely in the valley of darkness...

That is where prayer and waiting and trusting in HIS FAITHFULNESS proves to be MATURE AND STEADFAST FAITH...

miknik5 · Jun 19, 2016

How difficult it is when darkness comes..
May those who face these trials remember one thing;
Blessed those who wait on THE LORD...blessed those who keep their garments with them and do not "go out"...

Stunnedbygrace · Jun 19, 2016

Stunnedbygrace said:

Who is defeated in sin, peter?
Have I gone out and shot anyone? no.
I've keptt hat commandment.
Ah, but God is holy through and through.
so He demands an even more exacting holiness than just my outside.
I must now also not murder in my heart (anger).
What man can perform heart surgery on himself?
He needs a surgeon to do it.
Who can be that holy to never have anger in their heart? NEVER have anger and resentment in their heart?
NO ONE can be that pure and holy by just making sure that he doesn't shoot anyone.

Jesus spoke of this when He taught on the outside of the cup (not shooting anyone) versus the inside of the cup (not having anger in your heart). He said the outside can be clean but the inside still be filthy. THIS is the perfection God demands. You can try to not ever have anger or resentment toward another but you will eventually fail in it. You have to look to Him to do the inside work unless you find yourself to already be perfect to that exacting degree of perfection.
His holiness requires BOTH.

I feel it bears repeating...

Grace777x70 · Jun 19, 2016

PeterJens said:

There is a difference between our own works of righteousness in the flesh and God working through us as we have said over 30x times. I understand that this is a stumbling block for you but we will continue to give out the scriptures.

Titus 3:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Paul said that he puts no confidence in the flesh.

Philippians 3:3-4 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,

[SUP]4 [/SUP] although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more:

God doesn't recognize what we do in the flesh - our self-effort. Abraham tried to fulfill the word of God to him by creating Ishmael. God doesn't recognize what we do in the flesh no matter how good it is and even trying to fulfill the word of God to us.

God told Abraham " Take your son, your only son..."

Paul said - having begun in the Spirit are you now made perfect in the flesh?

Galatians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

Mitspa · Jun 19, 2016

Does the OP understand that he is blaspheming the Holy Spirit and His work with the title of "mysticism"?

Some on this forum are so desperate to challenge the "grace" message ..they are willing to put their very souls in jeopardy on judgment day.

BeyondET · Jun 19, 2016

these two words mysticism and righteousness surely each can be used in multiple meanings. A person can jump around on a rightious pogo stick in a mystic world or change to a mystic pogo stick in a rightious world by a flip of a coin. clearly there is no winners in using words that have multiple meanings one can discribe a concept anyway they choose its all about the beholder.

garee · Jun 19, 2016

Hi Jaybird88

Not at all. That is not what I was trying to say.I said earlier the experiences happened in some cases before they were written down for us today. Other prophecy spoke of the things to come while other the things that were occurring. One third of human experience in respect to the faith of Christ working and living in men before one word was written as God ‘s witness the one was there working to make it all possible. All good things work out to the good of those who love God those who are called to perform his good purposes .That began with Abel in whom God had grace on.

The Spirit of truth comes through his written word of truth as the same spirit of faith ,according as it is written.By it we receive the Holy Spirit and are kept to the end by the same Spirit of truth.

The word of God as it is written is the law of God not one word jot or tittle comes from; “I heard it through the grape vine as a private interpretation of men.

I’m am saying the writing before he moved the apostles to record his witness came after the prophets that proceeded them.Scripture is the only valid authority by which we can hear God and theretofore believe him unto the salvation of our souls. it is the intimate way he designed by which we can knowing Him.

The whole bible as the perfect law of God is written by the finger of God. This is the Old testament as well as the new.

Scripture is to sole source of faith by which we can hear the living voice of God.

PeterJens · Jun 19, 2016

Mitspa said:

Let me break this down a bit. By saying mysticism is not of God, in the sense of a mystical new heart is sent from heaven into a believer, not the actual thing happening but the idea, because I do not believe this is what happens, I am blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Now in context Jesus was talking about calling a miracle ie a healing a work of satan. I am not doing this, I am actually saying mysticism is a theology of union with God which is not part of the gospel.

It is dangerous to talk theology and then say questioning one model over another is the unforgivable sin. That is like saying an open minded enquirer risks screwing it up on day one.

Jesus was talking about people who were hard hearted, without love or desire to follow God, and were happy to rebel and call anything of satan to further their own ambitions. I fall into none of these camps. I would suggest you consider what the difference is between mysticism and righteousness and you might get the point I am making.

PeterJens · Jun 19, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

As we have told you hundreds of times, you do not understand this stumbling block, that sin causes judgement, and you cannot compromise with actual sin in a believers life. We will continue to give our the scriptures

“Go now and leave your life of sin.”
John 8:11

I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
Luke 15:7

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
Heb 10:26-27

And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands.
2 John 1:6

In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome.
1 John 5:3

It appears your version of faith is hyper-legalism where no=one is ever free from sin except
by adopted righteousness so they are let off free. Even repentance has been removed.

So a gospel that is no longer a gospel but a mystical acceptance into heaven of a perfect
eternal spirit that came from heaven. A different faith altogether.

PeterJens · Jun 19, 2016

I have got to take my hat off to a condescending tone. I have stated here quite clearly why I reject mysticism yet these mystics want to say I have a good reason to reject them because of self righteousness.

What they are talking about is the righteousness that comes from obedience to Christ with a well spring of love set in your heart.

Their union with Christ is so complete, they will never stand as children of God, purchased and washed clean, they are merely shadows with Christ embossed over them is some odd union into eternity that they do not explain or understand.

On judgement day rather than relying on the work Christ has done in them, they stand as sinners in the hope Christ alone has bought them salvation without a response from themselves, because no response is worthy.

jaybird88 · Jun 19, 2016

PeterJens said:

then why does Jesus teach it?

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