Nephelim

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Jul 14, 2019
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#1
Were the sons of God angels or the sons of Seth in Genesis where the women had giant babies. I personally side with the story that angels slept with women.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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#2

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
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#3
Were the sons of God angels or the sons of Seth in Genesis where the women had giant babies. I personally side with the story that angels slept with women.
I did a blog on this, you can find it Here
 

Webers.Home

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May 28, 2018
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#4
.
Gen 6:1-2 . . Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face
of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that
the daughters of men were good; and they took wives for themselves,
whomever they chose.

The characteristics of the "sons of God" have been debated. Some say they
were members of the aristocracy of that day who married attractive women
from among the commoners. Others say they were renegade spirit creatures
who donned fully functioning human avatars-- replete with synthetic male
genomes --so they could cohabit with women; thus producing a hybrid
strain of hominid freaks. Others say they were God-fearing men who threw
caution to the wind and built themselves harems of humanistic women who
believed and practiced existential philosophies.

The latter seems the more likely seeing as how intermarriage between
believers and unbelievers is often frowned upon in both the Old Testament
and the New.

* The label "son of God" is somewhat ambiguous in the Old Testament. For
example in Ex 4:22-23 an entire people are identified as God's kin.

Hooking up men of faith with infidel women is a proven tactic for watering
down, compromising, and even extinguishing Bible beliefs and practices
(e.g. Num 31:7 16). The people of God are strictly, unequivocally, and
clearly forbidden to marry outside their faith. (Deut 7:1-4, 2Cor 6:14-18)

Women can be very effective in influencing an otherwise pious man to
compromise his convictions; for example Solomon got off to a good start but
down the road accumulated a harem of foreign women who led him into
idolatry; which subsequently caused The Lord to engineer rebellion in the
kingdom. (1Kgs 11 & 12)

The sons of God in Noah's day-- whose wives were chosen based solely
upon sensual allure sans any spiritual prudence whatsoever --all perished in
the Flood right along with their infidel wives and children. Not even one of
them had the good sense to go aboard the ark with Noah.
_
 

Webers.Home

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May 28, 2018
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#5
.
Gen 6:4 . .There were giants on the earth in those days, and also
afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they
bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of
renown.

One of the Bible's Hebrew words for "giant" is rapha' (raw-faw') which
appears in numerous places throughout the Old Testament and typically
always indicates brutish people of large physical stature, e.g. Goliath. But
that's not the word for giants here. Instead it's nephiyl (nef-eel') which
appears in only two verses in the entire Old Testament; one here and the
other in Numbers 13:33.

The word is somewhat ambiguous, but it mostly pertains to "men of old,
men of renown" viz: famous alpha males; e.g. Genghis Khan of Mongolia,
and Alexander the Great of Greece; Napoleon of France, Peter Alekseyevich
Romanov of Russia, Chandragupta Maurya of India, shogun Minamoto no
Yoritomo of Japan, conquistador Hernando Cortes of Spain, Timur: founder
of the Timurid dynasty, and Zahir-ud din Muhammad Babur: founder of the
Mughal dynasty that ruled the Indian subcontinent for over three centuries;
and of course guys like Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Benito Mussolini, Mao
Tse-tung, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, Idi Amin, Robert Mugabe, Xi Jinping,
and Kim Jong Un.

In other words: nephiyl doesn't necessarily indicate a special race of people;
but mostly strong personalities, i.e. especially bullies whose ambition is to
quite dominate others, i.e. despots, dictators, and tyrants, etc. Those kinds
of people don't just want power: they want to own your soul, censor your
information, and control the content of your thoughts.

Men who seek to dominate others are often the least suitable to do so; and
back there in Noah's day that was certainly true. The moral quality of the
world built by the governance of the nehiyl was so poor that the situation
required God to step in and do something about it.
_
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#6
amen they weren’t literal giants they were rhetorical giants , men of great renown

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the world might say Elvis was a giant in music , Muhammad Ali a giant of boxing

we say this rhetorically the giants in the at verse there are the men of great renown and accomplishment think of it how much could we accomplish if we lived hindreds even near a thousand years like they did ?

the giants in the earth are the mighty men of great renown

“the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”

If there were “ giants “ they would be more like Goliath rather than the four hundred foot giants that the book of enoch describes.

there still are large humans Robert wadlow was as tall as Goliath taller than a stop sign

I think if we look at Enoch’s account it basically falls apart when you realize he’s explaining almost five hundred foot giants supposedly born of normal women who were bedded by angels

and the scriptire sort of tells us the giants are the men of great renown born after Seth’s line mixed with cains line leading to the division your pointing to regarding noahs three sons

remember they were there during this time and would be there after also “There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that,”

so they would have been before the cursing of Noah’s son

he’s cursed in genesis nine but the nephilim are noted already in the earth in genesis 6

It would have to go all the way back to cains seperation and the replacing of abel who cain killed , with Seth this is where the division of men began.

the two lines of men

“And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand; when thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth. And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch. And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech. And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah. And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle. And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ. And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:11-12, 16-21, 25-26‬ ‭

you have Seth’s line and cains line separated there by God which continues through scripture
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#7
amen they weren’t literal giants they were rhetorical giants , men of great renown

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the world might say Elvis was a giant in music , Muhammad Ali a giant of boxing

we say this rhetorically the giants in the at verse there are the men of great renown and accomplishment think of it how much could we accomplish if we lived hindreds even near a thousand years like they did ?

the giants in the earth are the mighty men of great renown

“the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”

If there were “ giants “ they would be more like Goliath rather than the four hundred foot giants that the book of enoch describes.

there still are large humans Robert wadlow was as tall as Goliath taller than a stop sign

I think if we look at Enoch’s account it basically falls apart when you realize he’s explaining almost five hundred foot giants supposedly born of normal women who were bedded by angels

and the scriptire sort of tells us the giants are the men of great renown born after Seth’s line mixed with cains line leading to the division your pointing to regarding noahs three sons

remember they were there during this time and would be there after also “There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that,”

so they would have been before the cursing of Noah’s son

he’s cursed in genesis nine but the nephilim are noted already in the earth in genesis 6

It would have to go all the way back to cains seperation and the replacing of abel who cain killed , with Seth this is where the division of men began.

the two lines of men

“And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand; when thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth. And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch. And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech. And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah. And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle. And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ. And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:11-12, 16-21, 25-26‬ ‭

you have Seth’s line and cains line separated there by God which continues through scripture
After the fall of Adam, the only way man could become a son of God is through the new birth. This is only available through what Christ did at the cross. No son of Seth could produce a giant that made men as grasshoppers in their sight. This was a deliberate attempt by Satan to corrupt the promise seed line of Genesis 3:15. The entire purpose of Genesis 5 is to show how God was preserving himself a seed line through the corruption that was taking place. Noah's line was perfect in his generations. Noah's line had not been corrupted by the sons of God. This was such an abomination to God that it grieved his heart and set out to destroy all.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#8
The entire purpose of Genesis 5 is to show how God was preserving himself a seed line
through the corruption that was taking place. Noah's line was perfect in his generations.
Noah's line had not been corrupted by the sons of God. This was such an abomination
to God that it grieved his heart and set out to destroy all.
Giants were not eradicated through the flood, i.e., they existed postdiluvian also.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,687
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#9
Giants were not eradicated through the flood, i.e., they existed postdiluvian also.
Absolutely, through the interaction of angels and daughters of men. Their offspring were giants in the earth.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#10
After the fall of Adam, the only way man could become a son of God is through the new birth. This is only available through what Christ did at the cross. No son of Seth could produce a giant that made men as grasshoppers in their sight. This was a deliberate attempt by Satan to corrupt the promise seed line of Genesis 3:15. The entire purpose of Genesis 5 is to show how God was preserving himself a seed line through the corruption that was taking place. Noah's line was perfect in his generations. Noah's line had not been corrupted by the sons of God. This was such an abomination to God that it grieved his heart and set out to destroy all.
“After the fall of Adam, the only way man could become a son of God is through the new birth.”

yeah angels never were the children of God either way and they don’t get to be born and reborn ….

“which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:38‬ ‭

Gods children are men not angels tn he are different from man they don’t have flesh and blood but are spiritual ministers as you see thy very first man called thy son of god you the. Have this witness that no angels has ever been called the son of god but instead we’re created spiritual ministers

“For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, This day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, And he shall be to me a Son?

And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, And his ministers a flame of fire.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭1:5-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

lastly if wicked angels raped women and had children why would God call those creatures created by sin his sons ?

would God begin creating man to be his children and then claim these illegitimate ungodly wicked creatures created by angels sinning his children ?

The whole idea that God claimed giants created by si ful angels as his sons is just utterly twisted in my thinking the whole story doesn’t hold water

Gods children are created by him by his will in Christ not by rogue rebellious and perverted angels God would never claim those as his children just try daft they are called the sons of God tells us who they are and guarantees who they aren’t

someone read Enoch and assumed it was true that’s where the whole story of giants comes from those giants he tells about who ate everything and the men could No longer feed them ect ect that’s not biblical at all
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#11
To those who believe that the Sons of God refers to angels, what explanation do you give that explains how the angels came about their ability to reproduce?
I ask because they don't even have the ability to reproduce after their own kind. How and when did they become endowed with the ability to reproduce after another kind?
I'm not asking in jest. I've never been able to find an answer. Does scripture speak to this issue?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#12
“which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:38‬ ‭
Adam was a son of God. Adam was created in a sinless state. Angels are sons of God because they were created sinless. The only way we can become sons of God is though what Jesus accomplished on the cross. We are made a new creation, sinless, through his blood.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,687
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#13
“For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, This day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, And he shall be to me a Son?
None of the Angels were begotten by God. The word begotten is of great importance. The body that the Word moved into was begotten by God. The seed came from God, not man.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#14
“After the fall of Adam, the only way man could become a son of God is through the new birth.”

yeah angels never were the children of God either way and they don’t get to be born and reborn ….

“which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:38‬ ‭

Gods children are men not angels tn he are different from man they don’t have flesh and blood but are spiritual ministers as you see thy very first man called thy son of god you the. Have this witness that no angels has ever been called the son of god but instead we’re created spiritual ministers

“For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, This day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, And he shall be to me a Son?

And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, And his ministers a flame of fire.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭1:5-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

lastly if wicked angels raped women and had children why would God call those creatures created by sin his sons ?

would God begin creating man to be his children and then claim these illegitimate ungodly wicked creatures created by angels sinning his children ?

The whole idea that God claimed giants created by si ful angels as his sons is just utterly twisted in my thinking the whole story doesn’t hold water

Gods children are created by him by his will in Christ not by rogue rebellious and perverted angels God would never claim those as his children just try daft they are called the sons of God tells us who they are and guarantees who they aren’t

someone read Enoch and assumed it was true that’s where the whole story of giants comes from those giants he tells about who ate everything and the men could No longer feed them ect ect that’s not biblical at all
Man was not around at the creation, however, angels were there shouting for joy.

Job 38:
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
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#15
Adam was a son of God. Adam was created in a sinless state. Angels are sons of God because they were created sinless. The only way we can become sons of God is though what Jesus accomplished on the cross. We are made a new creation, sinless, through his blood.
No. He was a son of God because he came from God, at least his spirit did. It was breathed into Adam and he then became a living being.

Angels can be "sons of God" insofar as they were created by God. In that sense, God is their father. But much like Henry Ford is the father of the modern automobile, the angels were made not to inherit God's estate but only to serve those who are part of it, they are ministering spirits only. Not even capable of love (at least there is no Biblical account of angels loving anyone).

Creation was made with each living thing having its seed within itself. This was a limit imposed by God. That is why, today, organisms of crossed-species are not viable.

Knowing this, the sons of God who had sex with the daughters of women were men, humans. Just like the sons of God are today.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#16
Adam was a son of God. Adam was created in a sinless state. Angels are sons of God because they were created sinless. The only way we can become sons of God is though what Jesus accomplished on the cross. We are made a new creation, sinless, through his blood.
you

“Angels are sons of God because they were created sinless.”

the Bible

“being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, This day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, And he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, And his ministers a flame of fire.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭1:4-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same;( Jesus the son became a man not an angel because they are the children ) that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. ( the son had to be a man because they are the children )

Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, ( his brethren are men not angels so he became a man being the son) that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:14, 16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

No angels have ever been called Gods sins it’s why Jesus became one of us d not an angel because the gospel is about the children of God

“The only way we can become sons of God”

again this is what scripture says

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this is what Seth’s line did for worship

“And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬


what makes a child of God is a man who believes in the son of God Jesus Christ is his name has always been what makes men the children of God

but you know sometimes people already know and the Bible must have it wrong can you find one verse where angels are called Gods children ? And can you find a verse claiming the cross makes children of God ?

the son of God makes children of God his name , his word , his blood , those things are eternal they were just hidden in the ot

“And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Seth’s line we’re worshipping the same things Christian’s do calling on the name of Jesus tha yes why they were called thy sons of God like angels have never been and never will Be

man is the only creature in creation ever created to be his children made in his image and having dominion upon earth from the start to the end it mankind

“which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s the beginning and this will
Be the resulting eternity

“He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:7-8‬ ‭KJV

the whole Bible brother is about the redemption of mankind created in the beginning to be the children of God falling into sin and the. Later being redeemed as his children through Christ

there’s no doctrine about angels being e children in the beginning middle
Or end but they are quite well defined as heavenly spiritual ministers some of whom a third rebelled when mankind was given dominion upon earth corrupting man and delaying the inevitable creation of God

angels aren’t flesh and blood mankind is flesh and blood they are made to procreate gels are created spiri try Al beings who are never born or born again they do not receive the spirit of Jesus Christ through faith in the gospel , they are ministers to the hiers of salvstion mankind angels are here to y minister to the hiers the children

“Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭1:14

all angels are ministering spirits sent to minister to man who are the hiers of God his children in Christ

the gospel isn’t about redeeming angels I’m not even sure how we think angels and men are the same man is the children either they are just the same as angels or they are the children and angels aren’t like the scripture says so clearly
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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#17
amen they weren’t literal giants they were rhetorical giants , men of great renown

There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”

the two lines of men

“And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand; when thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth. And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch. And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech. And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah. And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle. And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ. And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:11-12, 16-21, 25-26‬ ‭
In the same context I previously quoted concerning spying out the promised land, Arba is mentioned as the forefather of Anak, but i found it to daunting to try and trace the lineage, but the stature of the inhabitants is mentioned. But I agree that the only mention of 500 ft tall is found in the questionable source of the Book of Enoch which many have run with as actual scripture.

However, in the text proof you provided above with special attention to "the same" (mighty men of renown, men of old), following the grammar that "the same" is the same in subject as the preceding "Sons of God" and 'the same' doesn't reflect upon the "children" born to them that some would suggest. According to the provided Hebrew morphology, the latter understanding isn't supported as "Those" indicated as 3rdperson masculine plural doesn't agree with the "children" indicated as 3rd person common plural.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,781
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#18
Adam was a son of God. Adam was created in a sinless state. Angels are sons of God because they were created sinless. The only way we can become sons of God is though what Jesus accomplished on the cross. We are made a new creation, sinless, through his blood.
Your logic is flawed. Angels are not sons of God "because" of anything other than the fact that they are His creations. Further, there is nothing in Scripture saying that angels were created sinless. While it's a reasonable conclusion, it is not actually scriptural truth.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,781
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#19
Were the sons of God angels or the sons of Seth in Genesis where the women had giant babies. I personally side with the story that angels slept with women.
I recommend you read Michael S. Heiser's The Unseen Realm.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,781
13,414
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#20
None of the Angels were begotten by God. The word begotten is of great importance. The body that the Word moved into was begotten by God. The seed came from God, not man.
What does "begotten" mean, in your understanding?