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Why would a person not look to the spiritual meaning and call that useful?
Parables are scripture. We compare the spiritual not seen understanding to the same …..faith to faith.
How do you not look for the spiritual understanding other than not opening the spiritual book ? Many confuse the word spiritual to represent the things seen turning things upside down taking away the spiritual understanding for our spiritual God. God is Spirit as that not seen
The prescription to not look to the spiritual understanding is not found in the Bible. Its why many words were changed to fit the new kind of literal interpretation hermeneutics.
I am noticing lately time restraints are added to many words that have nothing to do with the time element. In doing men do violate the interpreting tools for rightly dividing the parables, we are not to add new meaning to a word (singular) . One word with a new meaning can change the authors intent. .The word "apostle" comes to mind .In most cases the intent is destroyed
There is a the warning also at the end of the book of prophecy which is also used to keep the integrity of the word . Together they seal off the possibility of: thus says the Lord, I had a dream as a direct revelation or a vision, or a new tongue( prophecy after a new testament manner). He said this or that as new prophecy as if we could add to the perfect or even desire to. . .
Revelation is still the last chapter. No laws missing by which we could know God more intimately.
Ye shall not add unto the word (singular)which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, (singular)that ye may keep the commandments (plural) of the Lord your God which I command you.Deuteronomy 4:2
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words (plural) of the book (singular) of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. revelation 22
Parables are scripture. We compare the spiritual not seen understanding to the same …..faith to faith.
How do you not look for the spiritual understanding other than not opening the spiritual book ? Many confuse the word spiritual to represent the things seen turning things upside down taking away the spiritual understanding for our spiritual God. God is Spirit as that not seen
The prescription to not look to the spiritual understanding is not found in the Bible. Its why many words were changed to fit the new kind of literal interpretation hermeneutics.
I am noticing lately time restraints are added to many words that have nothing to do with the time element. In doing men do violate the interpreting tools for rightly dividing the parables, we are not to add new meaning to a word (singular) . One word with a new meaning can change the authors intent. .The word "apostle" comes to mind .In most cases the intent is destroyed
There is a the warning also at the end of the book of prophecy which is also used to keep the integrity of the word . Together they seal off the possibility of: thus says the Lord, I had a dream as a direct revelation or a vision, or a new tongue( prophecy after a new testament manner). He said this or that as new prophecy as if we could add to the perfect or even desire to. . .
Revelation is still the last chapter. No laws missing by which we could know God more intimately.
Ye shall not add unto the word (singular)which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, (singular)that ye may keep the commandments (plural) of the Lord your God which I command you.Deuteronomy 4:2
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words (plural) of the book (singular) of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. revelation 22
Dino, respectfully, you don't understand what the term, "circular reasoning" means, despite my efforts to explain it.
It would seem to begin with you are reasoning after the philosophies of men . (no circle) (no law)
Not a place Christian should begin with . His reasoning as law begins with his word as law, and ends.
Back to circular reasoning .The word of God is true because it is the law of God. It is the perfect law of God because God is the truth personified.
The law we reason by that circle seal cannot be broken or added to or takeaway .Its a perfect circle. Like described in that God sits on enthroned and the inhabitants us are like grasshoppers hoping here and there. Looking for the lion the King of Judah so that the circle will not be broken. like the song …. In the sky Lord in the Sky. Its the kind of family we are made of.
Isaiah 40:22It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
The philosophies of men remain theories of men .The circle is broken...….. never connects.
It would seem to begin with you are reasoning after the philosophies of men . (no circle) (no law)
Not a place Christian should begin with . His reasoning as law begins with his word as law, and ends.
Back to circular reasoning .The word of God is true because it is the law of God. It is the perfect law of God because God is the truth personified.
The law we reason by that circle seal cannot be broken or added to or takeaway .Its a perfect circle. Like described in that God sits on enthroned and the inhabitants us are like grasshoppers hoping here and there. Looking for the lion the King of Judah so that the circle will not be broken. like the song …. In the sky Lord in the Sky. Its the kind of family we are made of.
Isaiah 40:22It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
The philosophies of men remain theories of men .The circle is broken...….. never connects.
Okay Garee, since you're so certain that my use of the term, "circular reasoning" is incorrect, let's present evidence.
First, I introduced the term, you didn't. I know it from other sources; you have only started using it since seeing me use it.
Your definition is barely coherent, rambling, and based on your flawed understanding of related terms. Mine is concise and coherent.
If you ask anyone trained in logic what "circular reasoning" is, they will give you a definition that matches mine. None would give a definition anything like yours.
So, here's a challenge for you: Find and either quote or link to three published sources that use the term the way you define it.
Here are three supporting my definition:
Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning): [Circular reasoning] is a logical fallacy in which the reasoner begins with what they are trying to end with.
Logically Fallacious (https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/66/Circular-Reasoning): Description: A type of reasoning in which the proposition is supported by the premises, which is supported by the proposition, creating a circle in reasoning where no useful information is being shared. This fallacy is often quite humorous.
Logical Fallacies (https://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/begging-the-question/): An argument is circular if its conclusion is among its premises, if it assumes (either explicitly or not) what it is trying to prove. Such arguments are said to beg the question. A circular argument fails as a proof because it will only be judged to be sound by those who already accept its conclusion.
First, I introduced the term, you didn't. I know it from other sources; you have only started using it since seeing me use it.
Your definition is barely coherent, rambling, and based on your flawed understanding of related terms. Mine is concise and coherent.
If you ask anyone trained in logic what "circular reasoning" is, they will give you a definition that matches mine. None would give a definition anything like yours.
So, here's a challenge for you: Find and either quote or link to three published sources that use the term the way you define it.
Here are three supporting my definition:
Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning): [Circular reasoning] is a logical fallacy in which the reasoner begins with what they are trying to end with.
Logically Fallacious (https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/66/Circular-Reasoning): Description: A type of reasoning in which the proposition is supported by the premises, which is supported by the proposition, creating a circle in reasoning where no useful information is being shared. This fallacy is often quite humorous.
Logical Fallacies (https://www.logicalfallacies.info/presumption/begging-the-question/): An argument is circular if its conclusion is among its premises, if it assumes (either explicitly or not) what it is trying to prove. Such arguments are said to beg the question. A circular argument fails as a proof because it will only be judged to be sound by those who already accept its conclusion.
A very biased view. We require modern translations because language is dynamic changing over the years. For example the KJV translated in 1611. Here is a file I keep on it.
Problems with the KJV
Because of the changes in the English language between 1611 to today, a number of words occur in the King James that make zero sense to most people today. These include the following nuggets that you will find scattered here and there:
Almug
Algum
Charashim
Chode
Cracknels
Gat
Habergeon
Hosen
Kab
Ligure
Neesed
Nusings
Ouches
ring-straked
sycamyne
trow
wimples, ….
In addition knowledge of nature has advanced greatly since 1611. The King James translators translated some animal names into animals that in fact we now have pretty good reason for knowing don’t actually exist:
unicorn (Deut. 33:17)
satyr (Isa 13:21);
dragon (Deut 32:33) (for serpent)
cockatrice (Isa 11:8),
arrowsnake (Gen 49:11, in the margin).
Moreover,, there are phrases that simply don’t make sense any more to modern readers: Phrases that no longer make sense:
ouches of gold (Exod. 28:11);
collops of fat (Job 15:25);
naughty figs (Jer 24:2);
ien with (Jer. 3:2);
the ground is chapt (Jer 14:4);
brazen wall” (Jer 15:20);
rentest thy face (Jer. 4:30);
urrain of the cattle (Exod. 9:2);
And there are whole sentences that are confusing at best, virtually indecipherable (or humorous)
And Jacob sod pottage (Gen 25:29)
And Mt. Sinai was altogether on a smoke (Exoc. 19:18)
Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing (Ps. 5:6)
I trow not (Luke 17:9)
We do you to wit of the grace of God (2 Cor. 8:1)
Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels (2 Cor. 6:12)
He who letteth will let (2 Thes 2:7)
The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd (Eccles. 12:11)
Other sentences make sense, but would today be considered somewhat problematic – at least for the sacred Scripture. My favorite is the one that refers one who: “Pisseth against the wall:…. 1 Sam 25:22, 34, I Kings 14:10!
NIV uses the word man.
Problems with the KJV
Because of the changes in the English language between 1611 to today, a number of words occur in the King James that make zero sense to most people today. These include the following nuggets that you will find scattered here and there:
Almug
Algum
Charashim
Chode
Cracknels
Gat
Habergeon
Hosen
Kab
Ligure
Neesed
Nusings
Ouches
ring-straked
sycamyne
trow
wimples, ….
In addition knowledge of nature has advanced greatly since 1611. The King James translators translated some animal names into animals that in fact we now have pretty good reason for knowing don’t actually exist:
unicorn (Deut. 33:17)
satyr (Isa 13:21);
dragon (Deut 32:33) (for serpent)
cockatrice (Isa 11:8),
arrowsnake (Gen 49:11, in the margin).
Moreover,, there are phrases that simply don’t make sense any more to modern readers: Phrases that no longer make sense:
ouches of gold (Exod. 28:11);
collops of fat (Job 15:25);
naughty figs (Jer 24:2);
ien with (Jer. 3:2);
the ground is chapt (Jer 14:4);
brazen wall” (Jer 15:20);
rentest thy face (Jer. 4:30);
urrain of the cattle (Exod. 9:2);
And there are whole sentences that are confusing at best, virtually indecipherable (or humorous)
And Jacob sod pottage (Gen 25:29)
And Mt. Sinai was altogether on a smoke (Exoc. 19:18)
Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing (Ps. 5:6)
I trow not (Luke 17:9)
We do you to wit of the grace of God (2 Cor. 8:1)
Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels (2 Cor. 6:12)
He who letteth will let (2 Thes 2:7)
The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd (Eccles. 12:11)
Other sentences make sense, but would today be considered somewhat problematic – at least for the sacred Scripture. My favorite is the one that refers one who: “Pisseth against the wall:…. 1 Sam 25:22, 34, I Kings 14:10!
NIV uses the word man.
"Don't spiritualize The Bible".... means;.....don't change the Bible from it's stated position to something that sounds good to the mind. The Bible is presented as is and must not be tampered with in stated language or intent, etc.
It appears you have a different understanding of the study rule.
Example;...there are those who disavow the great flood because they think it makes the Bible/G-d as a horrible monster....for killing many.
Or... that G-d will eventually save all folks rather than send them to eternal damnation.
That is spiritualizing the Bible.
It appears you have a different understanding of the study rule.
Example;...there are those who disavow the great flood because they think it makes the Bible/G-d as a horrible monster....for killing many.
Or... that G-d will eventually save all folks rather than send them to eternal damnation.
That is spiritualizing the Bible.
The Bible is the inspired word of God. As such most is to be taken literally. Daniel and Revelation are written in symbolic language making that impossible. Twice near the end of Daniel it states the book is sealed until the end times. Revelation is written the same way. As a result theologians have created 4 seperate views of eschatology from them. Each view is Biblical but contradicts the other views. At present it is impossible to know which view if any is correct. Possibly a mixture of two or more or something different.
Also. we must be mindful of biblical language..."some things are reserved for our father's knowledge only".....and........"it shall be revealed in due time".
However, we must be comforted with the knowledge that the three things we need to know.....
Repentance
Baptism
Live A righteous life...
is understood by all.
However, we must be comforted with the knowledge that the three things we need to know.....
Repentance
Baptism
Live A righteous life...
is understood by all.
Parables are used to give a historical law that comes along side of the spiritual meaning. Its where rightly dividing and what scripture call mixing faith comes in.. The Red Sea is a historallly true parable as part of the departure from Egypt used to signify this world The promised land signifies the new heavens and earth. .Without parables Christ spoke not. .
Spiritualize the signified language of God who is Spirit?
Spiritualizing comparing the spiritual to the spiritual (faith to faith) seems to be the prescribed way the spiritual understanding of a spiritual book..? Why would someone think it was odd?
If we were to look to the literal as walking by sight not mixing faith in what is revealed .I am sure we could find that kind of prescription and we could serve that master as a interpretation authority
Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and "he sent" and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Its seem you forget the hermeneutics he has given us commands us to understand that without parables Christ spoke not to everyone .Believers and unbeliever alike, purposely hiding the signified language of God used through the Bible. No where are we given commandments if the first sense makes sense look for the literal .
Matthew 13:34All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a "parable" spake he not unto them:
Mark 4:11And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal
Where do we find this prescription not to search as for Silver or Gold or the hidden pearl of price the spiritual understanding that some call spiritualizing? But its seem the scriptures calls rightly dividing?
Spiritualize the signified language of God who is Spirit?
Spiritualizing comparing the spiritual to the spiritual (faith to faith) seems to be the prescribed way the spiritual understanding of a spiritual book..? Why would someone think it was odd?
If we were to look to the literal as walking by sight not mixing faith in what is revealed .I am sure we could find that kind of prescription and we could serve that master as a interpretation authority
Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and "he sent" and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Its seem you forget the hermeneutics he has given us commands us to understand that without parables Christ spoke not to everyone .Believers and unbeliever alike, purposely hiding the signified language of God used through the Bible. No where are we given commandments if the first sense makes sense look for the literal .
Matthew 13:34All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a "parable" spake he not unto them:
Mark 4:11And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal
Where do we find this prescription not to search as for Silver or Gold or the hidden pearl of price the spiritual understanding that some call spiritualizing? But its seem the scriptures calls rightly dividing?
Yes, if you search the parable out for the hidden understanding as for silver or gold. Christ has given a few examples to help the believer get started searching for the gospel nuggets hid form natural man, the literalist.
The whole time period of kings in Israel was used as a parable Historically true yet side aside to reveal the gospel in respect to the suffering of Christ beforehand and the glory that did follow . The time of reformation had come.
I would suggest if you have not searched out the signified understandings. It makes a great study and can help unwrap some things that just might not seem could be compared when comparing the spiritual unseen understanding to the same called "faith to faith"
The signified language used in parable/figure is used to open the understanding as to the purpose God turned the unbelieving Jews over to do that which they should not of .Insisting in a outward figure head as a Pagan king .That time period he set up all of the metaphors used that that point ahead to the time of reformation as the glory that did come. The shadows disappeared. Without parables Christ spoke not just as recorded for our interpretation use.
The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation Hebrews 9:8-10
The gospel preached beforehand through parables.
Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.1 Peter1: 8-11
The whole time period of kings in Israel was used as a parable Historically true yet side aside to reveal the gospel in respect to the suffering of Christ beforehand and the glory that did follow . The time of reformation had come.
I would suggest if you have not searched out the signified understandings. It makes a great study and can help unwrap some things that just might not seem could be compared when comparing the spiritual unseen understanding to the same called "faith to faith"
The signified language used in parable/figure is used to open the understanding as to the purpose God turned the unbelieving Jews over to do that which they should not of .Insisting in a outward figure head as a Pagan king .That time period he set up all of the metaphors used that that point ahead to the time of reformation as the glory that did come. The shadows disappeared. Without parables Christ spoke not just as recorded for our interpretation use.
The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation Hebrews 9:8-10
The gospel preached beforehand through parables.
Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.1 Peter1: 8-11
ROFL
A large section of Bible is history. In it both the good and bad about people is written. David who is a man after God's own heart had a close friend murdered on the battle field because he had an affair with his wife and she became pregnant. Then he married her. God sent a prophet to him telling him the baby would die because of his sin. Once confronted David was extremely repentant. That action is why he was a man after God's own heart!
A large section of Bible is history. In it both the good and bad about people is written. David who is a man after God's own heart had a close friend murdered on the battle field because he had an affair with his wife and she became pregnant. Then he married her. God sent a prophet to him telling him the baby would die because of his sin. Once confronted David was extremely repentant. That action is why he was a man after God's own heart!
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I have read the Koran. In comparison to the Bible there are several issues.
1. Archaeology
All cities mentioned in the Bible have been found to be very accurate with the digs.
The only city mentioned in the Koran does not match the archaeological dig.
2. The Bible never condricts the itself.
The Koran has abrogation as part of its existence. Later spoken verses replace earlier spoken ones they contradict.
3. The Bible has Jesus saying "I and the Father are one."
The Koran has Jesus saying he is just a man.
With the above the the Koran has no credibility!!
1. Archaeology
All cities mentioned in the Bible have been found to be very accurate with the digs.
The only city mentioned in the Koran does not match the archaeological dig.
2. The Bible never condricts the itself.
The Koran has abrogation as part of its existence. Later spoken verses replace earlier spoken ones they contradict.
3. The Bible has Jesus saying "I and the Father are one."
The Koran has Jesus saying he is just a man.
With the above the the Koran has no credibility!!
