No gentile has ever been under Mosaic law

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FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
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#41
What about the gentiles through out the old testament such as Ruth, and Uriah the Bite, and some other gentiles who helped Israel?
Ruth & Uriah, proselyte's, I can't find Bite.

Helping an Israeli doesn't make one an Israeli. Finally, anyone that hadn't converted wasn't covered by Mosaic law temple sacrifices, couldn't partake in the Passover Seder. Therefore, they weren't under the Mosaic covenant.

Ehp 2:14 makes reference to the middle WALL of PARTITION.

Paul is referring to a wall of stone balusters. That separated/divided the outer temple area ""Courtyard of the Gentiles"" (considered impure & not allowed into the sanctuary) from the rest of the temple.

It's not until after the resurrection this middle WALL of PARTITION (between Jew & gentile) is removed.
 
Jan 25, 2015
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#42
How do you think a Christian can be "out of covenant" today?
The Hebrew word for covenant is Beriyth and it means treaty, alliance (of marriage), agreement, pledge, alliance (of friendship)... how am I not in covenant with the King?
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#43
The Hebrew word for covenant is Beriyth and it means treaty, alliance (of marriage), agreement, pledge, alliance (of friendship)... how am I not in covenant with the King?
So you are saying its impossible for a Christian to be out?
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#45
Out of what? Covenant? If you do not serve the King you are out of covenant with Him... Jew or gentile...
So "serving God" is a requirement for the covenant you think all Christians are in?
 
Jan 25, 2015
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#46
So "serving God" is a requirement for the covenant you think all Christians are in?
Not a requirement.... but it should be your hearts desire my friend :)

God does not require anything from us. He is God. We have a choice :)
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#47
Not a requirement.... but it should be your hearts desire my friend :)

God does not require anything from us. He is God. We have a choice :)
But if we choose not to serve him, we are out of the covenant?

That is what you are saying correct?
 

Edify

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2021
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#50
No gentiles has ever been under Mosaic law.
Any stranger was allowed to serve Israel's God & keep His covenant.
Neither has any NT believer ever been under the Covenant made at Sinai.
Only every Jew just before they were saved.
This thread doesn't make any sense. What exactly are you trying to point out?
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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#51
James 1
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
God is in control of all things. He even creates evil.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
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#52
That does not go against what I stated. It was based on the covenant made with Abraham in Genesis 12:3.

In the OT, if gentiles want to be blessed by God, they have to go thru Israel. (Ephesians 2:11-12)

You can view a counter example in Deut 23

3 An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the Lord for ever:

4 Because they met you not with bread and with water in the way, when ye came forth out of Egypt; and because they hired against thee Balaam the son of Beor of Pethor of Mesopotamia, to curse thee.
I find it difficult to have a rational set of communications with you. Sorry.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
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#54
So in short, you are telling us God has double standards because He will judge Israel in the OT under a different set of rules than everybody else :unsure: that is not the God of the Bible. That is a man made god.
I believe these verses support the OP statement. You are free to disagree, no harm, no foul. Best wishes, JJ
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,267
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#55
Any stranger was allowed to serve Israel's God & keep His covenant.

Only every Jew just before they were saved.
This thread doesn't make any sense. What exactly are you trying to point out?
I spoke to your stranger statement in posts 40 & 41.

Thread never claimed Jews weren't under the Sinai covenant. It clearly states they had a choice & ALL agreed Ex 19:8.

My point is simple, gentiles were never part of the law covenant cut at Sinai.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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#56
I believe thread post #1 makes this clear:

No gentiles has ever been under Mosaic law. Neither has any NT believer ever been under the Covenant made at Sinai.

OP doesn't claim there isn't a sovereign creator God, or no right & wrong actions. Adam wasn't under Mosaic coventant laws, yet, he knowingly transgressed/sinned against God's law.

Again, as stated in post #1:
In the book of Exodus it's Israel ONLY! That agrees with & enters into, the Mosaic law covenant on Mt Sinai, NO GENTILES.

OP post #1, Verses: Eph 2:12, Rom 2:14 & Acts 15:1,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,23 & most notably Vs 24. Confirm gentiles were never under the Mosaic law covenant.

Regarding content in your reply:
“For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
(MY REPLY: Here you agree many have sinned without being under Mosaic law)

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness,
(MY REPLY: Here you agree Gentiles have not the Mosaic law)

and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
(MY REPLY: This suggest it's thoughts/conscience (void if Mosaic law) that's accusing or excusing)

In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:12, 14-16‬ ‭
(MY REPLY: This thread in no way disagrees or argues against these verses)

we aren’t judged by the law we are condemned by it , we’re judged by Jesus and the gospel.
(MY REPLY: Which is it? we're Judged by the law or we’re judged by Jesus the gospel of Jesus the Christ?)

Paul’s saying , when someone commits adultery , they lie and cover it up because they understand it is sin , hiding it shows the law on their conscience . Murderers hide and flee because they understand they have broken the law doesn’t matter if they had a covenant saying “ do not kill” their conscience proves they are under the same law
(MY REPLY: I disagree, there are laws & there is the Mosaic law covenant, NOT the same.

when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
(MY REPLY: Here again, you agree Gentiles have not Mosaic law)

Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness,
(MY REPLY: Void of being under Mosaic law, people have a conscience & for the most part, by adulthood have a good moral understanding between right & wrong)

Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness,
(MY REPLY:
Rom 2:
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
(MY NOTE: You post verses in support of the thread??? Vs 14 gentiles WHICH DON'T HAVE THE LAW!!! HAVING NOT THE LAW!!!. 2ndly Rom is written to believers (Rom 1:7) Believers have the new covenant laws written on their heart by Christs indwelling Holy Spirit)

“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
(MY REPLY: This verse is from God's rainbow covenant with Noah Gen 9:16 & not applicable to the Mosaic law covenant)

Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬
(MY REPLY: Isa is a Jewish prophet under Mosaic law. The curse mentioned here is levied in Duet 28:15-60 under the Mosaic Covenant made at Sinai)

wow you really hacked that to pieces and connected a lot of dots
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,903
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#57
I spoke to your stranger statement in posts 40 & 41.

Thread never claimed Jews weren't under the Sinai covenant. It clearly states they had a choice & ALL agreed Ex 19:8.

My point is simple, gentiles were never part of the law covenant cut at Sinai.
tou are way off with this sin is defined as transgression of the law ,

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:9-11, 19-20‬ ‭

If Gentiles were not under the law they would not be guilty of sin . I think maybe I’m misunderstanding what you are saying but that fact is when the Jews were dispersed into the world the law came With them and after that came the gospel

if your point is that Gentiles weren’t allowed to belong to the covenant of Sinai you are correct , Gods law however applies to every human being on earth

it doesn’t matter if we read the law were under it

if you commit adultery you then are a transgressor of the law , if you commit theft you are a transgressor of the law ect it doesn’t matter if I’m gentile and commit adultery ive still transgressed Gods law and became a sinner .

I think you are misunderstanding what being under the law means and confusion for with being a participant of a covenant

the law transcended thier specific covenant and ended up cursing the world because of thier transgression . I know you have said the curse didn’t come from Moses law at that part of your post I began to suspect you have never studied the law
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,267
432
83
#58
wow you really hacked that to pieces and connected a lot of dots
I did my best to respectfully reply to your post. I will not bother you with any additional reply's. Best wishes, JJ
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,903
5,637
113
#59
tou are way off with this sin is defined as transgression of the law ,

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:9-11, 19-20‬ ‭

If Gentiles were not under the law they would not be guilty of sin . I think maybe I’m misunderstanding what you are saying but that fact is when the Jews were dispersed into the world the law came With them and after that came the gospel

if your point is that Gentiles weren’t allowed to belong to the covenant of Sinai you are correct , Gods law however applies to every human being on earth

it doesn’t matter if we read the law were under it

if you commit adultery you then are a transgressor of the law , if you commit theft you are a transgressor of the law ect it doesn’t matter if I’m gentile and commit adultery ive still transgressed Gods law and became a sinner .

I think you are misunderstanding what being under the law means and confusion for with being a participant of a covenant

the law transcended thier specific covenant and ended up cursing the world because of thier transgression . I know you have said the curse didn’t come from Moses law at that part of your post I began to suspect you have never studied the law

the law was an addition because and directly because of adams transgression so the law takes that form of speaking to transgressors rather than those made after Gods image. The law came because of this moment

“And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God amongst the trees of the garden.

‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:7-8, 11, 13, 17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the law was added at that moment


“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:19, 21-

the curse began with adams transgression and that is why the law came to Moses and the children of Israel in the form it did they were transgressors by nature now those who when God comes near they become afraid and hide we know this is the beginning of the law because of the giving of the law ot comes in that form of being afraid and keeping far away from God

“And be ready against the third day: for the third day the Lord will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai. And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying, Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death: There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭19:11-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s how God approaches sinful
Man and the law sounds like your speaking to sinners who can’t control themselves “ do not kill or you must be killed “ “ do not lie “ do not commit adultery “ ect

that law is for all sinners jew or gentile sinful mankind made well before the choosing of Israel’s descendants . They received the law in its written form but all sinners have the elements of conscience which is the law that was written on those tablets

it’s the reason people hide thier crimes they know internally killing is wrong , lying is wrong , adultery is wrong so they cover it over

the law of Moses is for sinners who will not repent it only began to be known in Israel and then the Bible made it known to all the world so there is no excuse for anyone