No Longer to Obey Commandments

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Feb 7, 2013
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Just a thought here........but if this is true.......that we do not have to obey commandments any longer because we are under Grace, then please explain this..........

The Apostle Paul and the numerous commandments he issued to the churches in his Epistles.

Which takes precedence? The commandments of Christ, or the commandments of Paul?

Just a few days ago a person on this Forum told me that we were no longer obligated to follow the commandments of Christ other than the specific to of "loving God, and loving our Neighbor."

Ok.

So, I took a look at some other threads, and this same person was going off on the idea of women pastors and quoting the commandments of Paul.

??????????

Is it just me? Seriously?

Anyway, just a thought.............
No, HE is the HOLY SPIRIT highlighting all that you have been 'taught' written in the New Covenant and for reference Old, by HIM which of GOD through CHRIST about 'contradicting', 'counterfeits' and 'imposters' and to 'watch out for', not to be 'disturbed', 'distracted' nor 'continue' with them, but 'stick' to that is written and used completely again, as 'a reminder' and 'a stir up of memory'.

This is in order that the 'lambs' and 'sheep' are able to 'distinguish' between the 'spirit of error' and 'spirit of truth' within the church. During JESUS's time they were there and the very close was Judas Iscariot and during the Apostle's time, they were there also in the churches.

They would want to 'twist' the written Gospel, by 'picking' and 'choosing' Scriptures in preference, in order to 'suit' their 'imperfection', due to their sin in them.

We tried to even quote Scriptures that they have 'left behind', which is also of JESUS and the Apostles but they call them as 'laws' and they are under 'Grace'. They have 'messed up' the written 'whole sound doctrine teaching of the HOLY BIBLE' and 'shortened' them to their living and continuing.

Our given 'sound doctrine' say;

"Love is our debt and Love is our guide."

Please forgive them and pray for them, who are in their 'ignorance' to 'All' that is written, according to 2 Timothy 3;16, 17.

GOD bless HIS lambs and sheep who 'believe' in whole, 'as it is written in the HOLY BIBLE' and 'not compromise the taught Spiritual knowledge, received in sound doctrine understanding, to spiritual things of Heaven, by the Help of the HOLY SPIRIT, about the Kingdom of GOD', and protect them from 'evil deception' in 'disguise' in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.
 
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VioletReigns

Guest
The commandments of Christ is not the law of Moses...

Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Joh 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
Hallelujah!!! \:D/ Thank You, Jesus!!
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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I don't need the food laws torn out of my Bible to know they are not in force

(Mt 15:10; Mk 7:19; Ro 14:14, 20; Heb 9:10; 1Co 8:7-8, 10:25-29; 1Ti 4:3-5).
(Mt 15:10; Mk 7:19; Ro 14:14, 20; Heb 9:10; 1Co 8:7-8, 10:25-29; 1Ti 4:3-5).

Mat 15:10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
Mat 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

Nicely lifted out of context but this encounter had NOTHING to do with clean and unclean meats. All we have to do is read the passage and we find…

Mat 15:1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
Mat 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

The subject here is traditions of men concerning washings when they ate BREAD.


Mar 7:19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

Same encounter as the one in Mat 15 related to us by Mark and the same issue. It has nothing to do with clean and unclean meats…

Mar 7:1 Then came together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem.
Mar 7:2 And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.
Mar 7:3 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.

Again, eating bread with unwashed hands. Christ was pointing out that if their hands were not immaculately clean they remained undefiled.


Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

The word for meat in verse 20 is broma and it means food, not meat in particular.

I’ve posted on Rom 14 to the point that most of you may have it memorized. There is no part of Rom 14 that deals with clean and unclean meats. It is about vegetarianism, fasting and food offered to idols.


Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Again, lifted out of context, the subject of Heb 9 is the Tabernacle and it being a representation of the Throne room of God…

Heb 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Heb 9:2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
Heb 9:3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
Heb 9:4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
Heb 9:5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
Heb 9:6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.


1Co 8:7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
1Co 8:8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.

Another passage lifted out of context…

1Co 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

1Co 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

The subject here is meats offered to idols. Does that defile a Christian if he buys the meat in a meat market (shambles) and eats it? No.


1Co 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
1Co 10:26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.
1Co 10:27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
1Co 10:28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:
1Co 10:29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?

Self explanatory, again, meats offered to idols. Does that defile the meat or the one eating it?



And finally, this one seems to be a personal favorite of those who read over a passage and skip a line or two…
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Interestingly enough, verse 5 actually tells the tale. Meats are set apart in Lev 11 and Deut 14. What this passage is really dealing with is the teaching of a great universal church that forbids the eating of meat on Friday…

1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

From the dawn of Christianity, Friday has been signalized as an abstinence day, in order to do homage to the memory of Christ suffering and dying on that day of the week. The "Teaching of the Apostles" (viii), Clement of Alexandria (Strom., VI, 75), and Tertullian (De jejun., xiv) make explicit mention of this practice. Pope Nicholas I (858-867) declares that abstinence from flesh meat is enjoined on Fridays. There is every reason to conjecture that Innocent III (1198-1216) had the existence of this law in mind when he said that this obligation is suppressed as often as Christmas Day falls on Friday (De observ. jejunii, ult. cap. Ap. Layman, Theologia Moralis, I, iv, tract. viii, ii). Moreover, the way in which the custom of abstaining on Saturday originated in the Roman Church is a striking evidence of the early institution of Friday as an abstinence day. (The Catholic Encyclopedia, “Abstinence”)
Perhaps you don't need to tear them out or your Bible physically, in your mind you already have.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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The whole point of the Hebrew writer is that once the covenant was fulfilled, it was removed and taken out of the way. The two covenants cannot coexist.
Really, human reasoning?

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

There is a big difference between ready to and already done. If one is ready to die, is that the same as having already died?
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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Hallelujah!!! \:D/ Thank You, Jesus!!
Are you rejoicing because you are now free to commit murder or adultery? If the Commandments are no longer in force then these acts are no longer sin...

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
Are you rejoicing because you are now free to commit murder or adultery? If the Commandments are no longer in force then these acts are no longer sin...

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Free to love friend.....Free from sin and sins power...which is the law !
 
Mar 4, 2013
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yes, but that isn't really the point here........... :) How can we be chastised for saying we should obey the commandments of Christ, and labeled "legalists" by the folks who say we MUST obey the commandments of Paul?


That's kinda the point. :)
My question has always been... "Why on earth do some (if not most Christians today) have a problem with obeying the moral persuasions of Exodus 20 through 23?" After all, that is (for the most part) instructions on how to love our neighbor along with Matthew 7:12, Matthew 22:37-39, and Leviticus 19:11-18. Also see Deuteronomy 6:1-6, 30:6, and 13:1-3. Call me a legalistic if I esteem all of what God has given to mankind, including His Words. ALL of His words. It is relevant for today as it was way back when.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
My question has always been... "Why on earth do some (if not most Christians today) have a problem with obeying the moral persuasions of Exodus 20 through 23?" After all, that is (for the most part) instructions on how to love your neighbor along with Matthew 7:12, Matthew 22:37-39, and Leviticus 19:11-18. Also see Deuteronomy 6:1-6, 30:6, and 13:1-3. Call me a legalistic if I esteem all of what God has given to mankind, including His Words. ALL of His words. It is relevant for today as it was way back when.
See obedience to the law of Moses is not a "moral persuasions" its the law of sin and death...if you break it you die...and its not just kinda keep it, it demands you keep it all, all the time (every jot and tittle). It has one purpose, to condemn you and the whole world! Now Christ came to justify you, why would you turn from Him back to the law? Or why would you dishonor the law by watering it down so you can feel self-righteous about yourself?
 
Sep 6, 2014
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Ezekiel 36:26,27
26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes,and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

(חֹק choq: something prescribed or owed, a statute)

Luke 5:36-39

36
And he spake also a parable unto them;No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old. 37And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish. 38But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved. 39No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

Luke 22:20
20Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

2 Corinthians 5:17-21
17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
 
Sep 6, 2014
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Philippians 3:9
9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
 
Mar 4, 2013
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See obedience to the law of Moses is not a "moral persuasions" its the law of sin and death...if you break it you die...and its not just kinda keep it, it demands you keep it all, all the time (every jot and tittle). It has one purpose, to condemn you and the whole world! Now Christ came to justify you, why would you turn from Him back to the law? Or why would you dishonor the law by watering it down so you can feel self-righteous about yourself?
So this is the law of sin a death as far as you are concerned?

Leviticus 19:11-18
11 "You shall not steal; you shall not deal falsely; you shall not lie to one another.
12 You shall not swear by my name falsely, and so profane the name of your God: I am the LORD.
13 "You shall not oppress your neighbor or rob him. The wages of a hired servant shall not remain with you all night until the morning.
14 You shall not curse the deaf or put a stumbling block before the blind, but you shall fear your God: I am the LORD.
15 "You shall do no injustice in court. You shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great, but in righteousness shall you judge your neighbor.
16 You shall not go around as a slanderer among your people, and you shall not stand up against the life of your neighbor: I am the LORD.
17 "You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him.
18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.

Matthew 5:18
18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Last time I looked outside heaven and earth are still here.

Ye
 
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p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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What specific physical commandments/instructions from the Apostles are you referring to and to who might they apply to?

Once a person hears and believes the Gospel of our salvation and begins their walk in faith with Christ they become sealed with His Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13) this coming after they have been drawn by the Father (John 6:44) and after being called to the Word to begin with. When He dawns and rises in a persons heart at a undetermined time later on, the person anointed is brought into all truth by His Spirit and will eventually need no more instructions from men but will be governed by God's Spirit within him. (1 John 2:27). The New Testament letters outside the 4 Gospels and ministry of men called to our most respected and honored occupation work as training wheels until the person anointed is brought into all truth through the Spirit. Men have been appointed to minister and instruct those unlearned until they come into the unity of the faith to the stature of the fulness of Christ.(Ephesians 4:13). The Old and New Testament including the 4 Gospels serve the same purpose.......(Timothy 3:16).
Not just the Apostles........but the commandments of Jesus Christ given to us in His Gospel as recorded.

There are some who believe that IF we obey the two commandments, then we automatically fulfill all other commandments in our hearts/spiritually, and there is no need for physical obedience.

There are some who believe that we must obey all the commandments; both spiritually and physically.

There are some that believe that we must obey all of His commandments found in His Gospel, but realize that some are unto spiritual obedience, and some are unto both spiritual and physical obedience.

All recognize that Jesus said: If you love me, you would obey me. I do not think that is debated by anyone.

Let me try and give at least one example of each of the three categories above.

1) Spiritual obedience only: Problem with this concept is the celebration of Communion and/or baptism. Physical obedience is required (as well as spiritual) to actually obey Christ.

2) Obeying all commandments spiritually and physically: Problem with this concept is Jesus said if thy right eye offend thee - see Matthew 5:29. Jesus did not intend for us to actually pluck out our eyes. His commandment was to be obeyed on a spiritual level, not for us to physically disfigure ourselves to show obedience to Him.

3) Those who realize both spiritual and physical obedience are required based on the commandment. The above examples would be an example of this. There are many more though.

This same example can be used when reading the Epistles of the Apostles.

Yes, the Holy Spirit is our Teacher. However we are always in need of instruction, correction, fellowship and love from the Church body and/or it's Pastors/Elders/Congregation. And those who are mature believers have the responsibility to instruct, correct, fellowship with, and love less mature believers. This walk with Christ is only completed when we are reunited with Him. Graduation comes with that reuniting. Our entire lives here are spent growing in and learning of Him.

Now, that may just be me, but if so, then that is ok with me. :)
 
Jan 27, 2013
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how is scripture to be viewed. ie gentiles came last to know about jesus christ.
so up to that point, would the scripture be viewed as a history account, to what god has done with a jewish people. ie old testament.

so even in the new testament , every writer would be a christian that believes in jesus christ. even though most of these writers are jewish. that believed in a god and followed the law of moses, even before jesus called them to follow him.

howevery god reveled him self through jesus christ.

16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. John 3

why did god wait for a new covenant to be reveled, to revel him self through jesus christ. (death being conquered)

would romans 5 answer this.
 
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p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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DiscipleDave said:

I John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of Him, because we keep His commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment, That we should 1) believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and 2) LOVE ONE ANOTHER, as He gave us commandment. 24 And He that keepeth His commandments dwelleth in Him, and he in Him. And hereby we know that He abideth in us, by the Spirit which He hath given us.

Yes, this is one of His commandments. But it isn't the only one. Jesus gave many more commandments than this.

Do you not recognize the celebration of Communion and Baptism and Footwashing as commandments? Did He not tell us to do them? Do you not recognize the Great Commission as a commandment? And many other examples.

:) Just saying.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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I see while I slept..............folks ventured in to hijack this thread and turn it into YET ANOTHER debate of the Law of Moses and Grace........


DO NOT HIJACK THIS THREAD! GO AWAY! START YOUR OWN THREAD! THIS THREAD IS SPEAKING ONLY TO THE NEW TESTAMENT. GO AWAY IF YOU CAN NOT REFRAIN FROM TRYING TO HIJACK THIS THREAD.

seriously.............................
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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Philippians 3:9
9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
This thread is not about the Law of Moses..............please stay on topic..........please.
 
Jan 27, 2013
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even time asks, when god revel jesus christ to a gentile.

6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him."

yet how can you get to know a god. without jesus christ.
 

oldhermit

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Jul 28, 2012
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Really, human reasoning?

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

There is a big difference between ready to and already done. If one is ready to die, is that the same as having already died?
The point is made by the writer that the first covenant has been made παλαιόω - obsolete.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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even time asks, when god revel jesus christ to a gentile.

6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him."

yet how can you get to know a god. without jesus christ.
How does this relate to the OP?
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
So this is the law of sin a death as far as you are concerned?

Leviticus 19:11-18
11 "You shall not steal; you shall not deal falsely; you shall not lie to one another.
12 You shall not swear by my name falsely, and so profane the name of your God: I am the LORD.
13 "You shall not oppress your neighbor or rob him. The wages of a hired servant shall not remain with you all night until the morning.
14 You shall not curse the deaf or put a stumbling block before the blind, but you shall fear your God: I am the LORD.
15 "You shall do no injustice in court. You shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great, but in righteousness shall you judge your neighbor.
16 You shall not go around as a slanderer among your people, and you shall not stand up against the life of your neighbor: I am the LORD.
17 "You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him.
18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.

Matthew 5:18
18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Last time I looked outside heaven and earth are still here.

Ye
Yes the law declares the soul that's sins, must die.....the law of sin and death!