No trust in Creation...no trust in Genesis....no trust in Scriptures...

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Is creation a "salvation issue"

  • Yes it's vital to mans need for salvation

    Votes: 14 53.8%
  • No creation is unconnected to salvation

    Votes: 10 38.5%
  • Never considered any connection

    Votes: 2 7.7%

  • Total voters
    26
  • Poll closed .
D

didymos

Guest
Eastern? The Holy Land is to the West.
Australians are crazy that way ;)




So where does 'eastern mysticism' come from according to you? California?

Wait... maybe it does... :p
 
Jun 18, 2014
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Comparisons are not analogies.
Look Einstein, you're wrong.

analogy
əˈnalədʒi/
noun
noun: analogy; plural noun: analogies

  • a comparison between one thing and another, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.
    [COLOR=#878787 !important]"an analogy between the workings of nature and those of human societies"[/COLOR]
    • a correspondence or partial similarity.
      [COLOR=#878787 !important]"the syndrome is called deep dysgraphia because of its analogy to deep dyslexia"[/COLOR]
    • a thing which is comparable to something else in significant respects.
      [COLOR=#878787 !important]"works of art were seen as an analogy for works of nature"[/COLOR]
    • LOGIC
      a process of arguing from similarity in known respects to similarity in other respects.






I mentioned the culmination of biological mutations and how when they add up they lead to significant changes in species, and you tried to analogize it by saying 'grocery bills add up, but they certainly don't become money growing on trees'.

1. Grocery bills are not analogous to biological mutations, in any way relevant to this argument whatsoever.

2. Grocery bills would never add up to money, if anything they'd add up to a lack of money.

3. Grocery bills and money are in no way comparable to genetic mutation and evolution.

If I literally have to explain to you why this is an analogy, and why it is an absolutely terrible, flawed, horribly irrelevant and nonsensical one, then I really don't think you're qualified for this argument.
 
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Jun 5, 2014
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Ok...we can use the group that still believes that man has never walked on the moon.

Interesting thing here, is that the same technology that put man on the moon in the first place, states that the Universe is billions of years old....and any sane person knows that we have put a man on the moon.

YEC is going the way of T-Rex...
Most of those who say that the earth is 6,000 years old don't get it from scientific evidence.

They get it from Bishop Ussher, who died in 1656.
 
Jun 5, 2014
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What is amazing is that people decide on the existence of God based on whether God breathed scripture giving a time schedule and description of how He did it in the bible. We have established that the bible tells of the existence of earth before he counted the seven days.

It is even explained to us in Hebrew about the first and fourth day of creation God gave you with the Hebrew words Owr, choshek for the first day and when he created light the Hebrew words are maorot and layil. You have Hebrew dictionaries for you have the net.

If you want to learn about what man can figure out about all this, go to science. If you want to learn about the principles of God, go to scripture. But don't try to make scripture a scientific manual, it isn't.
You are a very intelligent and perceptive young lady.
 
S

StoneThrower

Guest
Most of those who say that the earth is 6,000 years old don't get it from scientific evidence.

They get it from Bishop Ussher, who died in 1656.
A no, the word Yom designates a 24 hour day and the text says there was morning and evening further indicating it was a 24 hour day.
 
Nov 19, 2012
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Most of those who say that the earth is 6,000 years old don't get it from scientific evidence.

They get it from Bishop Ussher, who died in 1656.

Agreed....and scripture never says to sum the generations to arrive at a date, that is a human idea...
 
Nov 19, 2012
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A no, the word Yom designates a 24 hour day and the text says there was morning and evening further indicating it was a 24 hour day.
A Hebrew day is from evening to evening.

Thus, when the text states 'and there was evening and there was morning', this must either be either 12hrs, or something less than 24hrs, with this line of reasoning...
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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Elin said:
Esanta said:
Elin said:
Adaptation is not evolution of one species into another.
No, not one instance of adaptation. But they add up.
Grocery bills also add up, but they don't ever become money growing on trees.

"Comparisons" are not "analogies."
Look Einstein, you're wrong.

analogy
əˈnalədʒi/
noun
noun: analogy; plural noun: analogies

  • a comparison between one thing and another, typically for the purpose of explanation or clarification.
    "an analogy between the workings of nature and those of human societies"
    • a correspondence or partial similarity.
      "the syndrome is called deep dysgraphia because of its analogy to deep dyslexia"
    • a thing which is comparable to something else in significant respects.
      "works of art were seen as an analogy for works of nature"
    • LOGIC
      a process of arguing from similarity in known respects to similarity in other respects.
There was no correspondence in their grammatical construction.
The second clause of your statement did not have an object, or conclusion.
In your sense of it, my statement could not be analogous to yours.

I mentioned the culmination of biological mutations and how
when they add up they lead to significant changes in species,
"Significant changes" do not a different species make.

Your statement made no conclusion regarding evolution.

and you tried to analogize it by saying 'grocery bills add up, but they certainly don't become money growing on trees'.
And you missed my analogy.

1. Grocery bills are not analogous to biological mutations, in any way relevant to this argument whatsoever.

2. Grocery bills would never add up to money, if anything they'd add up to a lack of money.

3. Grocery bills and money are in no way comparable to genetic mutation and evolution.
And that is the analogy. . .sorry you missed it.

Adaptations within the species are in no way comparable to evolution into a new species.


If I literally have to explain to you why this is an analogy,
Like I had to explain to you why mine was an analogy. . .of a conclusion unrelated to the premise.

In addition, your statement presented no conclusion related to the premise.
So my statement with its conclusion could not be analogous to your statement without one.
Rather, mine was analogous to an assumed conclusion which did not follow from the premise.

and why it is an absolutely terrible, flawed, horribly irrelevant and nonsensical one, then I really don't think you're qualified for this argument.
And so we're back to the God-man and Scripture:

"Physician, heal thyself."
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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Agreed....and scripture never says to sum the generations to arrive at a date, that is a human idea...
Nor does Scripture say "Do not abort unborn children," or "God is sovereign" or "God is triune."

Are those also human ideas?
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
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What is amazing is that people decide on the existence of God based on whether God breathed scripture giving a time schedule and description of how He did it in the bible. We have established that the bible tells of the existence of earth before he counted the seven days.

It is even explained to us in Hebrew about the first and fourth day of creation God gave you with the Hebrew words Owr, choshek for the first day and when he created light the Hebrew words are maorot and layil. You have Hebrew dictionaries for you have the net.

If you want to learn about what man can figure out about all this, go to science. If you want to learn about the principles of God, go to scripture. But don't try to make scripture a scientific manual, it isn't.
All of God's Word is true, including any science which it contains.

The Author of science is not mistaken regarding it.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
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A Hebrew day is from evening to evening.
Correct. . .there was only one evening in any day.

Thus, when the text states 'and there was evening and there was morning', this must either be either 12hrs, or something less than 24hrs, with this line of reasoning...
Incorrect. . .that's with your line of reasoning.

Evening extended until morning, which then extended until evening each day.
There was only one evening and one morning in a day.
There was not an evening, a morning and another evening in one day.

"And there was evening and there was morning the first day."
"And there was evening and there was morning the second day." etc.

Each presents succeeding complete revolutions of the earth on its axis, not something less than 24 hrs.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
 
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Oct 31, 2011
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All of God's Word is true, including any science which it contains.

The Author of science is not mistaken regarding it.
Because God created all that science is trying to find out, and God as the creator knows more science than all men, and because all scripture is true, does that mean to you that you must read scripture as a manual in science? Do you actually think that science is what scripture is given to us for?
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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Because God created all that science is trying to find out, and God as the creator knows more science than all men, and because all scripture is true, does that mean to you that you must read scripture as a manual in science? Do you actually think that science is what scripture is given to us for?
Scripture was given to us for truth, on whatever and all it reveals.

It means to me that whatever Scripture reports about science is true.

It does not mean that Scripture answers all questions about science, as does a manual.

I am not in the business of accommodating Scripture to science.
I am in the business of accommodating science to Scripture.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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Scripture was given to us for truth, on whatever and all it reveals.

It means to me that whatever Scripture reports about science is true.

It does not mean that Scripture answers all questions about science, as does a manual.

I am not in the business of accommodating Scripture to science.
I am in the business of accommodating science to Scripture.
Do you feel that you can look to science to determine your belief in God?
 
P

Pottyone

Guest
A certain little thing called a global flood might of course make it difficult to find many of your " missing" fossils anyway!
 
S

StoneThrower

Guest
A Hebrew day is from evening to evening.

Thus, when the text states 'and there was evening and there was morning', this must either be either 12hrs, or something less than 24hrs, with this line of reasoning...
Hebrews counted part of a day as a day.
 
Feb 16, 2014
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A certain little thing called a global flood might of course make it difficult to find many of your " missing" fossils anyway!
There's literally zero evidence of a global flood. In fact, it has been proven that there was never a global flood since a global flood would have left clear signs consistent over the globe.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
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If God has revealed to you that Jesus is the Christ and He died, rose again and ascended into heaven then what's the issue with believing Genesis? To me it comes hand in hand.
In hindsight, I remember reading the story of Balam? And the talking donkey not long after I was born again and not having one issue that a donkey spoke, I was amazed it spoke..that's some serious mind shifting on Gods behalf. So go on! Have faith like a child!
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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Elin said:
Scripture was given to us for truth, on whatever and all it reveals.

It means to me that whatever Scripture reports about science is true.

It does not mean that Scripture answers all questions about science, as does a manual.

I am not in the business of accommodating (adjusting) Scripture to "science."
I am in the business of accommodating (adjusting) "science" to Scripture.
Do you feel that you can look to science to determine your belief in God?
The blue text means I do not.
 
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