None Good...No Not One!

[dcontroversal]

In reality, dcontroversal, the works crowd, and sinless perfection crowd have even altered some of our vocabulary, because we know we will be accused of promoting sin. But if we are honest with ourselves, we sin most of the time and a LOT.

We are comparing ourselves to perfect holiness, perfect righteousness. We don't have words or the capacity to understand how BIG that is. A sinner compared to perfection?

From my studies, the more I learn about Grace and His perfection, the more I realize how much I truly sin.

My actions need to be perfect.
My thoughts need to be perfect.
I need to perfectly handle and solve all my problems.
I need to perfectly follow His will for my life.
Every step I take needs to be perfectly aligned with His plan for my life.
I can't worry.
I can't fear anything.
I can't say one wrong word.
I can never put myself first.
I have to respect my wife, even when she is nagging.
I have to perfectly handle all problems and victories at work.
I have to perfectly raise my kids.
I have to perfectly handle my animals.
I have to perfectly handle His Word.
I cannot make ONE mistake in life.

And this is a pretty shallow list. And I fail or miss the mark more often than not in most of the cases.In fact way more often than not.

I believe that the greatest christian who ever lives on this earth. And Is a supergrace believer and has the greatest insight ever, of the sin issue, will be shocked when they get to heaven and see just how much sin was still in his life.

And I would agree.....no one on this planet can 100% of the time walk according to the word of God doing ALL that is required of God while keeping every law found in the scriptures. The bible is clear...there is not a JUST MAN upon the earth that does good and sins NOT!

 

[Hepzibah]

I don't think these discussions are serving any purpose and are getting us nowhere.

I think that it would be much more relevant to talk about what union with Christ means practically without concentrating on sin. That is only one part of it ie the ability to obey Christ in all things as the normal experience of being a Christian, not ignoring the fact that man can still fall from that and commit a sin and provision is made for it, though with warnings in Hebrews.

There is a process of course in getting there, and which some here, who are on the sinless side are not agreeing with me over. I am in a middle position and not on either side.

I spent many years of utter failure not being able to walk the talk. Then one day the Lord showed me that it is all by grace and if only I believed that He could keep me from falling Jude 23, then I would have an escape from every temptation.

From that day on I was able to be obedient in everything. Previously there had been an area where I was unable to obey. I had an anger problem but excused it as because of my childhood, until the day when the Lord said no, there is no excuse for sin when He gives the power to overcome every sin and stay overcoming.

So union with Christ also means having a deep peace within and knowing that if I died now I would be able to face Him without any guilt. It also means that one has the power within to convict those in our prescence of their sin without having to bleat on about it. A holy life stands out and just the look in a persons eyes shows it.

There is also an authority over nature which Wesley expected of those who were holy.

The most important thing though for me is in desiring nothing at all for myself but what is His will. If we want anything for ourselves then we are not there, and need to repent.

 

[dcontroversal]

This is one of the whole, major points of the teachings of Jesus Christs. These legalists, with their sabbaths, Torah, etc, can hardly cover the tip of the iceberg of sin, on their most memorable day, the gospel of Jesus Christ expansive of what is sin, and that is falling short of the glory of God. It pushes the most meticulous Pharisee into the realm of absurdity, trying to meet the requirements of God's holiness and perfection. Make no mistake, people, these doctrines of legalism and self-righteousness are very evil. Excellent post!

No doubt and I agree.......totally absurd to think one can be 100% sinless and then to make comments like...I haven't sinned in the last 2 years etc.....Quite simple...those who say they have no sin are deceived and do not have the truth dwelling in them.

 

[Gr8grace]

This is one of the whole, major points of the teachings of Jesus Christs. These legalists, with their sabbaths, Torah, etc, can hardly cover the tip of the iceberg of sin, on their most memorable day, the gospel of Jesus Christ expansive of what is sin, and that is falling short of the glory of God. It pushes the most meticulous Pharisee into the realm of absurdity, trying to meet the requirements of God's holiness and perfection. Make no mistake, people, these doctrines of legalism and self-righteousness are very evil. Excellent post!

I am actually quite surprised how many on this forum do seem to understand Grace. Most forums, Its just me and a few that "pop" in every once in a while.

I have seen 5 or 6 people on this forum(that I have kinda followed and read their posts) that seem to have a true understanding of Grace.

God Bless Brother

 

[dcontroversal]

I don't think these discussions are serving any purpose and are getting us nowhere.

I think that it would be much more relevant to talk about what union with Christ means practically without concentrating on sin. That is only one part of it ie the ability to obey Christ in all things as the normal experience of being a Christian, not ignoring the fact that man can still fall from that and commit a sin and provision is made for it, though with warnings in Hebrews.

There is a process of course in getting there, and which some here, who are on the sinless side are not agreeing with me over. I am in a middle position and not on either side.

I spent many years of utter failure not being able to walk the talk. Then one day the Lord showed me that it is all by grace and if only I believed that He could keep me from falling Jude 23, then I would have an escape from every temptation.

From that day on I was able to be obedient in everything. Previously there had been an area where I was unable to obey. I had an anger problem but excused it as because of my childhood, until the day when the Lord said no, there is no excuse for sin when He gives the power to overcome every sin and stay overcoming.

So union with Christ also means having a deep peace within and knowing that if I died now I would be able to face Him without any guilt. It also means that one has the power within to convict those in our prescence of their sin without having to bleat on about it. A holy life stands out and just the look in a persons eyes shows it.

There is also an authority over nature which Wesley expected of those who were holy.

The most important thing though for me is in desiring nothing at all for myself but what is His will. If we want anything for ourselves then we are not there, and need to repent.

Everything you say? Look.....the scriptures speak clearly...there has been only one who was faithful in EVERYTHING and his name is Jesus.....

 

[Hepzibah]

I had not been faithful in everything my whole life nor from the time I first believed, but I came to a point where His power was greater than my sins if my will was to turn from them. If anyone thinks that cannot stop sinning then they will not be able to reach this state of grace. Obviously.

 

[Hepzibah]

You were an armed serviceman? Was any disobedience acceptable or were you expected to obey immediately in all things?

 

[dcontroversal]

I had not been faithful in everything my whole life nor from the time I first believed, but I came to a point where His power was greater than my sins if my will was to turn from them. If anyone thinks that cannot stop sinning then they will not be able to reach this state of grace. Obviously.

So you are saying you are sinless and 100% of the time obey God in everything, do everything that is required, never fail, never fall, never sin?

 

[dcontroversal]

You were an armed serviceman? Was any disobedience acceptable or were you expected to obey immediately in all things?

Being a Marine and following the commands of mere men is not comparable to sin, motive, thoughts, desires etc......sorry...try again bro.

 

[Hepzibah]

I have been in that state yes. My will was for obedience in all things and because of that He gave the power so that the law of sin and death was cancelled and I was in the law of life whereby I did not sin and had union with Him. I cannot begin to describe it. The Father opened up His heart to me and I knew Him in the depths of my soul. Sadly I have not been able to retain that blessing though I have been in it three times. I do not know why i slipped and pray that I will be restored as I still only desire His will. We cannot get there ourselves though. It is by grace alone.

 

[JesusIsAll]

And I would agree.....no one on this planet can 100% of the time walk according to the word of God doing ALL that is required of God while keeping every law found in the scriptures. The bible is clear...there is not a JUST MAN upon the earth that does good and sins NOT!

It's so very absurd, the sinless crowd here, that I've usually just scrolled past it. It's actually garbage I've never heard before in the Christian community, anywhere. Again, just nobody in their right mind, whether of faith or not, goes around claiming perfection, and much less any true Christian.

Look at Paul, establishing and teaching church after church, writing a big chunk of the New Testament, while very saved would still refer to himself as the chief of sinners, or having a body of the flesh that was misery to him and wasn't right. Was he still a chief of sinners? No, but that's not the point. The point is, Paul didn't go on to ever say, "Look at me! I'm God's gift to holier-than-thou!" The very opposite!

All Christian teaching of the New Testament involves an attitude of unboastful humility, of uplifting only of the holiness and goodness of God, of Jesus Christ, all others cognizant their sharing of the fallen nature, with all men. When this humility is lacking, the Holy Spirit is not working. A self-righteous attitude is evil and not cognizant the holiness of God and the place of all creatures, versus the place of the Creator. Again, it's absurd, and I've never known anybody, personally, making these claims made here. Some people who post here are utter whackjobs of deception, the bottom line, no matter how clever they weave that web, their conclusions lala land.

 

[Hepzibah]

It is the fulfillment of that longing inside to know Him intimately. It is a walk of awareness of a constant presence of Him and praying without ceasing. It is heaven on earth. I long for that for you brother (I am a sister btw)

 

[Sirk]

It's so very absurd, the sinless crowd here, that I've usually just scrolled past it. It's actually garbage I've never heard before in the Christian community, anywhere. Again, just nobody in their right mind, whether of faith or not, goes around claiming perfection, and much less any true Christian.

Look at Paul, establishing and teaching church after church, writing a big chunk of the New Testament, while very saved would still refer to himself as the chief of sinners, or having a body of the flesh that was misery to him and wasn't right. Was he still a chief of sinners? No, but that's not the point. The point is, Paul didn't go on to ever say, "Look at me! I'm God's gift to holier-than-thou!" The very opposite!

All Christian teaching of the New Testament involves an attitude of unboastful humility, of uplifting only of the holiness and goodness of God, of Jesus Christ, all others cognizant their sharing of the fallen nature, with all men. When this humility is lacking, the Holy Spirit is not working. A self-righteous attitude is evil and not cognizant the holiness of God and the place of all creatures, versus the place of the Creator. Again, it's absurd, and I've never known anybody, personally, making these claims made here. Some people who post here are utter whackjobs of deception, the bottom line, no matter how clever they weave that web, their conclusions lala land.

They just foster so much disconnection.....which in and of itself is antiChrist. Jesus came to connect us with Him and the Father because it was the only way to get that done.

 

[dcontroversal]

It's so very absurd, the sinless crowd here, that I've usually just scrolled past it. It's actually garbage I've never heard before in the Christian community, anywhere. Again, just nobody in their right mind, whether of faith or not, goes around claiming perfection, and much less any true Christian.

Look at Paul, establishing and teaching church after church, writing a big chunk of the New Testament, while very saved would still refer to himself as the chief of sinners, or having a body of the flesh that was misery to him and wasn't right. Was he still a chief of sinners? No, but that's not the point. The point is, Paul didn't go on to ever say, "Look at me! I'm God's gift to holier-than-thou!" The very opposite!

All Christian teaching of the New Testament involves an attitude of unboastful humility, of uplifting only of the holiness and goodness of God, of Jesus Christ, all others cognizant their sharing of the fallen nature, with all men. When this humility is lacking, the Holy Spirit is not working. A self-righteous attitude is evil and not cognizant the holiness of God and the place of all creatures, versus the place of the Creator. Again, it's absurd, and I've never known anybody, personally, making these claims made here. Some people who post here are utter whackjobs of deception, the bottom line, no matter how clever they weave that web, their conclusions lala land.

Oh I agree for sure....the whole point is to uplift Jesus and only Jesus....when we start bragging or boasting of our own righteousness then we are dethroning God and placing our own righteousness above the righteousness of Christ/God.

 

[JesusIsAll]

I don't think these discussions are serving any purpose and are getting us nowhere.

Well, thanks a lot for coming down from somewhere on high, you being the sole proprietor of what has purpose, to dictate to everybody that purpose. Now, is that Wesley Christ?

 

[Sirk]

Well, thanks a lot for coming down from somewhere on high, you being the sole proprietor of what has purpose, to dictate to everybody that purpose. Now, is that Wesley Christ?

Last time I checked we were free to fellowship about the love of Jesus. It just so happens that these "sanctified in their flesh" people come and try to steal kill and destroy the goodness of Jesus and His love for us......so we push back.

 

[Hepzibah]

Jesus is All

Are you happy with the discussion and the way we are speaking to each other?

 

[DesiredHaven]

From my studies you are correct.

Codex Oliff (sp), Codex A, Codex B, Codex L, Codex W plus 5000 papyri do NOT have this story.

Codex Be-zii (sp) does have this story. This is an old manuscript - circa 550 A. D. This manuscript resides today at Cambridge.

Codex oliff is 200 years older, and theologians consider this one of the best and very reliable, and It does not have it included.

Thanks, I wouldnt know where to go with all that manuscipt stuff there are just folks who know these things better than I do.

God bless you

 

[dcontroversal]

I have been in that state yes. My will was for obedience in all things and because of that He gave the power so that the law of sin and death was cancelled and I was in the law of life whereby I did not sin and had union with Him. I cannot begin to describe it. The Father opened up His heart to me and I knew Him in the depths of my soul. Sadly I have not been able to retain that blessing though I have been in it three times. I do not know why i slipped and pray that I will be restored as I still only desire His will. We cannot get there ourselves though. It is by grace alone.

Well if you have slipped and have slipped three times then you do not ALWAYS do his will and or walk according to his ways.....and that is the point.....pride goes before a fall and a haughty spirit before destruction.......maybe the reason you slipped and fell is because of the pride of thinking that you do not sin and or are so righteous that you believe that you always do his will????? Not saying or accusing...notice the question marks....sorry I call everyone bro and didn't know as I rarely go to ones page to find out.....sorry again.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Jesus is All

Are you happy with the discussion and the way we are speaking to each other?

Well, happiness is relative, but can't say I have a big stick up my rear, like some people. Just a little stick, but, also, bear in mind I've never claimed perfection.

Add to that, I've never sought my purpose from the likes of you. This is what Jesus is all means to me, and let every man be a liar who brings not His gospel.