Not By Works

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dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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#21,021
Dec 12, 2013
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#21,021
PHart said:
That's right. That's why the person who says he is born again must have works. Not to buy them salvation, but because that's what born again people do. Born again people overcome the world. People who say they are born again and know him, but who do not obey God, are liars. That's what John said, not me.


"4The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" (1 John 2:4 NASB)


But so many people in the church today think their cold dead loveless works-less confession of faith is going to save them on the Day of Judgment, because as they say, "salvation is sooo not of works", oblivious to the fact that if they really did have the salvation that is secured solely by faith apart from works they'll have works on the Day of Judgment to prove it.
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Faith is what saves not works...

Ephesians 2:8-10
Titus 3:5
John 3:16, 36
 
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PHart

Guest
#21,022
#21,022
mailmandan said:
Amen! Saving belief in Christ continues and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away.
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Weak faith may wither too--faith that is weak because of the kind of heart (soil) it's planted in. That's why it's important to be strengthened in your faith, not just have it. So you can endure to the end and be saved. Because that's what believers do--they endure to the end because they continue to believe. People who stop believing, like the 2nd type of soil people, are the ones who wither away.

But at least we all agree that works are required in salvation, not to earn salvation but because saved people have faith--faith that invariably produces fruitful works of life.
 
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PHart

Guest
#21,025
#21,025
Limey410v2 said:
If I have the Spirit of the Creator of the universe living in me (which I do), His promises will not fail.
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That's exactly what I'm saying. Only believers have eternal life (Christ) in them. So keep believing. Don't lose Christ in you by the Holy Spirit through a return to unbelief.
 
Limey410v2

Limey410v2

Senior Member
#21,026
Jul 2, 2017
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#21,026
PHart said:
Weak faith may wither too--faith that is weak because of the kind of heart (soil) it's planted in. That's why it's important to be strengthened in your faith, not just have it. So you can endure to the end and be saved. Because that's what believers do--they endure to the end because they continue to believe. People who stop believing, like the 2nd type of soil people, are the ones who wither away.

But at least we all agree that works are required in salvation, not to earn salvation but because saved people have faith--faith that invariably produces fruitful works of life.
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What does "works are required in salvation" mean? That sounds like some PC way of saying works save. Looks like you're trying to slide some pork belly into a health care bill.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#21,027
#21,027
Speaking for myself, salvation and walking in Christ are separate.

Works are NOT required in, around, on top, beside, below, under or in any other place, for salvation.

Emphasis on required.




PHart said:
Weak faith may wither too--faith that is weak because of the kind of heart (soil) it's planted in. That's why it's important to be strengthened in your faith, not just have it. So you can endure to the end and be saved. Because that's what believers do--they endure to the end because they continue to believe. People who stop believing, like the 2nd type of soil people, are the ones who wither away.

But at least we all agree that works are required in salvation, not to earn salvation but because saved people have faith--faith that invariably produces fruitful works of life.
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dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#21,029
Dec 12, 2013
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#21,029
UnderGrace said:
Speaking for myself, salvation and walking in Christ are separate.

Works are NOT required in around, on top, beside, below, under or in any other place, for salvation.

Emphasis on required.
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amen...... saved comes first by faith......it is a done deal already before ONE work ever comes as the result of....and last time I checked.....1 cup of cold water in the name of Jesus or a disciple does not go unnoticed and or unrewarded......imagine that....guy believes in Jesus, is born again eternally and 50 years later gives a cup of cold water in the name of JESUS or a disciple......He was saved the whole time.......!
 
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NoNameMcgee

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#21,030
#21,030
dcontroversal said:
exactly..........................
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maybe the words are poorly chosen

but...

is it not so?

i mean


we are indebted to the Holy spirit for good works


but someone who loves the Father in heaven...
someone who follows Jesus


will bear good fruit right?
 
S

Sully

Guest
#21,031
#21,031
PHart said:
That's exactly what I'm saying. Only believers have eternal life (Christ) in them. So keep believing. Don't lose Christ in you by the Holy Spirit through a return to unbelief.
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How do you perform the act of believing? Hearing a Journey song in my head that Glee destroyed right now....
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
#21,032
#21,032
UnderGrace said:
Speaking for myself, salvation and walking in Christ are separate.

Works are NOT required in, around, on top, beside, below, under or in any other place, for salvation.

Emphasis on required.
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hm...
well said
 
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PHart

Guest
#21,033
#21,033
Magenta said:
Okay, this really makes no sense, you know? Whether one is Calvinist or not we are saying a true believer does not stop believing, whereas you say only the Calvinist is safe believing that?
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The Calvinist is only safe in believing that because his own doctrine tells him he must keep believing, because he can't be saved without persevering in the faith to the very end. As opposed to the H-gracer who will feel safe in letting go of his belief in Christ because his doctrine tells him that he's still saved in his unbelief. That's why I don't resist Calvinists. At least they defend and uphold believing in Christ and living righteously to the very end. Who can come against that kind of agenda?

Meanwhile, I thoroughly detest H-grace doctrine that says it's okay if you fall away into unbelief, saint of God, because you're still saved despite your unbelief. Jesus told us what the outcome is of the person who causes little ones who believe in him to stumble and go to the eternal hell (Matthew 18:6-9 NASB). In no way shape or form do I have the courage to defend a doctrine that Jesus says will make it so it is better for me to have a millstone hung around my neck and drowned in the sea. No thanks. I'm going with the reward he promises for encouraging believers to stay the course and be saved--like my Calvinist brothers do.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
#21,034
#21,034
I asked this before, but what is a return to unbelief?

PHart said:
That's exactly what I'm saying. Only believers have eternal life (Christ) in them. So keep believing. Don't lose Christ in you by the Holy Spirit through a return to unbelief.
Click to expand...
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#21,035
Jul 3, 2015
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#21,035
PHart said:
The Calvinist is only safe in believing that because his own doctrine tells him he must keep believing, because he can't be saved without persevering in the faith to the very end. As opposed to the H-gracer who will feel safe in letting go of his belief in Christ because his doctrine tells him that he's still saved in his unbelief. That's why I don't resist Calvinists. At least they defend and uphold believing in Christ and living righteously to the very end. Who can come against that kind of agenda? Meanwhile, I thoroughly detest H-grace doctrine that says it's okay if you fall away into unbelief saint of God because you're still saved despite your unbelief. Jesus told us what the outcome is of the person who causes little ones who believe in him to stumble and go to the eternal hell (Matthew 18:6-9 NASB). In no way shape or form do I have the courage to defend a doctrine that Jesus says will make it so it is better for me to have a millstone hung around my neck and drowned in the sea. No thanks. I'm going with the reward he promises for encouraging believers to stay the course and be saved--like my Calvinist brothers do.
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A true believer does not stop believing. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit. See 1 John 2:19.
 
tourist

tourist

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#21,036
Mar 13, 2014
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Tennessee
#21,036
PHart said:
Weak faith may wither too--faith that is weak because of the kind of heart (soil) it's planted in. That's why it's important to be strengthened in your faith, not just have it. So you can endure to the end and be saved. Because that's what believers do--they endure to the end because they continue to believe. People who stop believing, like the 2nd type of soil people, are the ones who wither away.

But at least we all agree that works are required in salvation, not to earn salvation but because saved people have faith--faith that invariably produces fruitful works of life.
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Works are not required in salvation but rather a manifestation of salvation. Works by themselves do not save. Hopefully this passage will clarify this scriptural point.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.
 
Limey410v2

Limey410v2

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Jul 2, 2017
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#21,037
Ariel82 said:
Instructions don't save you..,Jesus does.

Having a personal relationship with God is different than obeying a set of instructions.

Love demands more than obedience.

I wonder how many understand what Jesus meant when He said He would have mercy,not sacrifice?

How many understand agape love?
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Amen, in having a personal relationship with Him, we learn to trust, we learn to listen.

He is our best friend, we will find ourselves not desiring things of the world, we start to focus on the Spirit.

We don't need those earthly/fleshly things so much.

It is a reliance on Him, not a fear/obedience/or die, but a willingness to be keenly aware of His voice, to want to respond, to want to participate in His work. He fills the deepest needs of our heart.
 
LoveGodForever

LoveGodForever

Banned
#21,038
Jun 5, 2017
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#21,038
dcontroversal said:
Not real positive as I have only dealt with a few....they all have had a works flavored salvation of some sort and pushed the Sabbath.....
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Hi DCON

Please show me in any of my posts that I am teaching a “Works flavoured salvation”. Are you speaking the truth? I have already shared with you what I believe in post 19989. Can you tell me in that post from God’s Word how what I believe is a “works flavoured salvation”? If you cannot why do you say this? I follow God’s Word because I love Jesus. Do you love Jesus DCON?

God bless you all
 
LoveGodForever

LoveGodForever

Banned
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Jun 5, 2017
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#21,040
[FONT=&quot]
graceNpeace said:
Is this the same goobledegook conspiracy theory nonsense that is on your website - the one that you are advertising? The one that is just a mirror for Ellen Whites foetid ramblings...You see, what a lot of folk do not understand is that it is not just the Word of God that you are referring to but it is Ellen White's writings that the SDA church hold to be co-authoritative with the Bible. All your doctrine is just reflecting SDA beliefs AKA Ellen White's writings...
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Hello Friend, [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I follow no man or woman or church. I only follow the Word of God. I share only the Word of God. Show me anything in my posts that are not from God’s Word and if I show only the Word of God why do you not believe it?

God bless you all:)
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