Not By Works

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Nov 22, 2015
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Jesus is the Christ the Son of God lol you already Know that. im not gonna do this with you and the others again. to be Hinest bruce i have over the Last year lost respect for anything you say. all you do is go in circles to support paul ellis/ joseph prince distortions and push some invented gospel that disagrees with Jesus. I have no part with you anymore I hope someone can speak something to you to change your Mind and Heart, but im convinced it isnt me. you need to turn to Jesus, the One and Only Son of God.
It is not a good thing Jason to deny that Jesus Himself is God in the flesh but I will leave you in the Lord's hands.

As for me and the gospel - I will always boldly speak this out below even in the midst of all malice and whatever mis-understandings or out-right deceitfulness being said to the contrary
.



Romans 1:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

[SUP]17 [/SUP] For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."


Acts 20:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "But I do not consider my life of any account as dear to myself, so that I may finish my course and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify solemnly of the gospel of the grace of God.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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What was the purpose of Jesus dying on the cross?
And how his is one saved?

John 3:16-17
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

Romans 5:1-2
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Romans 10:9-11
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

Faith first which breaks down the barrier between us and the Father. Therefore we can come before his throne through faith.
Father child relationship restored as a result of what Jesus did.
We did nothing to earn it and we can nothing to keep it.

So the primary purpose was reconciliation through Jesus to the Father.
That being the case in a sense we can walk with God like Adam and Eve did.
Every day in a relationship based on love.

The secondary reason is this

Sorry but going to post the whole chapter because to me it emcompansess it all


Ephesians 2:1-10
Chapter 2
By Grace Through Faith
1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Notice verse 10. WE ARE HIS WORKMANSHIP, CREATED IN JESUS FOR GOOD WORKS WHICH GOD PREPARES BEFOREHAND THAT WE SHOULD WALK IN THEM.

Good works will follow, but by whom and through whom? JESUS IN US.

Thirdly and this I am very passionate about and I will try to keep countenance here because I can get emotional about it.

Our Father considers the whole being of his children, that being the case it's not just about works it's about the person.
I have read many a post that seems to indicate

You don't work then you are not saved. This is what I get they are saying is the following.
You don't overcome the vile sins of the flesh then you are not saved.
Thats what I call sin management that takes the focus of John 3:16.

A person may be struggling as a result of life experiences and therefore to judge them for that as a matter of fact is wrong.
It is pharisee at the very core.
Jesus rebuked the Pharisees and their attitude, it made him angry. You place burdens on them and do not lift a finger to help them. Millstone, neck come to mind.

Praise Jesus he went to to downtrodden and just loved them, to me it was that love that set them free to be like him.

We must do the same.

The Holy Spirit wants to heal us of all things that restrict our walk with God.

If we don't know the true love of a Father, we will walk in a way to appease the Father but underneath we it is nothing to do with love. It's I hope you don't beat up on me.

The same could be said that if we don't know the love of Father and think of ourselves as dirty rotten sinners how will we walk?

It's all about love, and it's that love that drives us. To be like Jesus, walk like him he like him and get behind the scene of someone's life who hasn't quite got that yet.

Never right people off based on what we think the bar that should be reached.

Get alongside people, love them where they are at. If we do then If they are struggling in their walk they will be more open to talk about it.

Then we can be like Jesus.

Amen...well said!
 

Limey410v2

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2017
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isnt faith in itself a Gift


arent we indebted for even that?

and isnt it ONLY by grace faith has any meaning at all


faith in a sacrifice we didnt make?


i mean ya


there is a difference between those who love the world

and those who love God

and it is visable in what we DO
so long as we act in the spirit


and not our own flesh


but again


isnt that something we are also indebted for?
A gift by definition has no debt.

We cannot pay for the inheritance that we will never earn. It is given as a birthright when we are born again.

Christ paid a debt he did not owe, and we are granted a gift we did earn.
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
i think so as well man, but we can disagree i still have mountains of respect for you, at your age wisdom really shines through in your words most always when i run across your posts. i would disagree 100 percent with the statement you made " repentance has no part in salvation" and the idea that our actions have nothing to do with it.

again im wondering if you read matthew 25:31-46. wouldnt that Kind of make believers actions very very important? Jesus is explaining 2 sets of People there, bioth sets call Him lord, so obviously they Believe He is the Lord. Yet look closely there and you will find the difference in the 2 groups is what they did, and what they refused to do. heres another example of How believers actions will exclude from Gods Kingdom and How lack of repentance will do the same.

Galatians 5:19-21 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: ( actions of the person) of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

see How that Just reflects the same thing as Jesus and Paul in those 2 other examples? or Heres a much simpler one

1 corinthians 6:9-10 "
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Notice How paul constantly says things Like this saying " dont be deceived and then making clear that Our actions have great consequence. when you see things that are so consistant in the Word, its because its a principle. you see this same principle from eden to revelation. its there so we arent deceived into believing, that having faith means our actions arent important, paul puts it in His writings so much, to guard against His words Being taken to mean " your actions dont matter" see also ephesians 5, see galatians 6, see romans 8, or the books of thessolonica. its the same principle, not the Only principle in the Word but One that cant be ignored because it does effect salvation clearly.

I mean what i said man, there can be disagreements, because i see wisdom in you. I also think that in 10 years you will have a deep, deeeep understanding because you have so much now. Just dont limit yourself by missing the principles within the Words, or the " spirit of the Word"



hmmmmm

ill pray on it


maybe my words were poorly chosen


i do feel all those who are saved will repent


i just dont feel the act of repenting is even something we should take credit for
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Yes. This IS a problem.
Going to a good bible-believing Church that could train you as to what scripture means would be the way to do.
Or just study the word and let the Spirit of God lead and guide you into the truth.......
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
A gift by definition has no debt.

We cannot pay for the inheritance that we will never earn. It is given as a birthright when we are born again.

Christ paid a debt he did not owe, and we are granted a gift we did earn.
words poorly chosen by me

sorry

based on romans 4
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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hmmmmm

ill pray on it

maybe my words were poorly chosen

i do feel all those who are saved will repent

i just dont feel the act of repenting is even something we should take credit for
Jesus called people to repentance at the very beginning of His earthly ministry... it is about turning from our rebellion against God, a giving up the ways of the world to follow after Him. It is something we are called to do and the choice is ours to make even as God makes it possible :)
 
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NoNameMcgee

Guest
Jesus called people to repentance at the very beginning of His earthly ministry... it is about turning from our rebellion against God, a giving up the ways of the world to follow after Him. It is something we are called to do and the choice is ours to make even as God makes it possible :)


agreed my purple friend
 
Jun 1, 2016
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isnt faith in itself a Gift


arent we indebted for even that?

and isnt it ONLY by grace faith has any meaning at all


faith in a sacrifice we didnt make?


i mean ya


there is a difference between those who love the world

and those who love God

and it is visable in what we DO
so long as we act in the spirit


and not our own flesh


but again


isnt that something we are also indebted for?
Faith is a gift sure, but that doesnt change the fact that without works its useless. Fauth comes from Gods Word. romans 10:17. in other words as we grasp Gods Word more and more, faith Grows, it ios stifled when we start denying whats there. when we refuse the stuff that instructs us on How to Live, what to do, repent, Live right ect. then faith becomes stagnant and the spirits fire dwindles. soon its harder to follow, harder to Hear because were at a point in our growth were what we do, becomes important Knowing were not Just a sinner who doesnt Know Jesus, but were a new creation capable of doing right and refusing tempotation.

the Longer a person keeps in Gods Word, the More faith Grows, as it does you find that accounbtability goes up as well. No one is Lost without Hope, but those who will not repent and obey God are condemned to be with the One they have followed. were not belonging to who we say we belong to, but who we serve, whether sin or righteousness.

romans 6:15-19 "What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 19I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

see John 8:31-34 to understand what paul is talking about being made free from sin because of obedience to the form of Doctrine delivered to the roman church and remember that paul had never been to rome at this point, but that rome had already received the Gospel beforehand. Paul was imparting His wisdom to an already established Church founded on the commission.

matthew 28:18-20 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."

the doctrine for christians is the Gospel of Jesus Christ found in His ministry. Hois teachings and commands. if you notice how many times Jeus stresses Keep my words, obey my commands, follow my doctrine, my words are spirit and life, they are freedom from sin....it shows the truth of what im saying to you. before a person comes to Jesus, sure they need to Hear " Jesus doied for your sins" because to believe that then gives them access to God. but when we then have access to God, were commanded to repent of sinful actions and work righteousness, work Love toward others. thois doesnt mean well i sinned yesterday now im Lost. it Just Means we have to then repent Knowing we have transgressed. His mercy extends to us, but consider this.

if i slap you in the face, and think its no biggy and you forgive me, i come back do it agaoin, and you fogive me i come back anbd do it again you forgive me.......isnt there a point where my part is to say " wow this guy is forgiving me for doing wrong, maybe i should repent and stop slapping Him." ???

thats what im saying you forgiving me can lead to 2 things it can make me think well its okay to slap him he doesnt care......or i can feel guilty because i did you wrong and actually come to you and sincerely Know i did wrong to you, and tell you " Man im so sorry i did that, please forgive me man that wont happen again" then your forgiveness matters and i dont need to continue on feeling guilty. Nor do i think well its cool if i slap mcgee no biggy Gods already forgiven me for it so...no guilt. if thats my belief im not gonna ever come to you in repentance and can never be forgiven really because in a sense im believing i can do no wrong and im above the consequences of my actions.

Christians are not above the consequences, were suppose to change and do whats right and when we fall we have to repent even if we have to repent 10 times of something we gotta embrace the high calling of righteousness through all Jeus has done to make us right with God, we can still go back the wrong way. check out pauls teaching about How the flesh and spirit are opposed and at war. and realize this is what He was writing to the church. receiving the spirit doesnt then mean the spirit is our puppet master it means now we have one in us that is able to put the flesh to death and bring righteousness. the war begins at the cross, and were suited up for battle By Jesus.....we still have to join the fight and give all our strength to the victory. Jesus has supplied us with certain victory, but Our full responsability is to Learn, grow in and follow, perform the things we learn from Gods Word.

 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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words poorly chosen by me

sorry

based on romans 4
NNMc

How can I out this?

You have no need to be sorry.
You, me and others are all still learning. That is nothing to be sorry about.
God loves a heart that seeks after him and his ways and his thoughts.

The only thing to be sorry about is when one thinks they know everything about God and his ways.

Truth is those who are like that will never be sorry.

Keep pressing in and pressing on, like we should all do.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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How many works have you all done today..........1, 3, 50 or 1000......regardless....they do not save, keep saved and or embellish salvation........

SAVED unto<--------NOT SAVED BY!
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,022
4,441
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How many works have you all done today..........1, 3, 50 or 1000......regardless....they do not save, keep saved and or embellish salvation........

SAVED unto<--------NOT SAVED BY!
Lets reverse it.

How many works have you not done today?

Hmm that causes one to search their heart and be honest.
 

Limey410v2

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2017
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hmmmmm

ill pray on it


maybe my words were poorly chosen


i do feel all those who are saved will repent


i just dont feel the act of repenting is even something we should take credit for
I believe that when we realize that we are sinners, and that we need a Savior, whenever that moment occurs, and however that realization comes, when we believe on Him and His sacrifice on the cross, and we truly understand it was for forgiveness of sin, for OUR sin personally as well as sins of the whole world.

In that moment we look to Him for the answer, for relief, for help and we ask the Holy Spirit into our lives, to give us life, that which He gives freely as a response to that belief (belief belies the real meaning behind that moment).
Then we have changed our mind about life, about ourselves, and most importantly changed our mind about Him and who He is.

That to me is repentance.

We then are created new. We are different, we are saved, born again by the Spirit of God. Praise Him, I thank Him everyday for that.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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How many works have you all done today..........1, 3, 50 or 1000......regardless....they do not save, keep saved and or embellish salvation........

SAVED unto<--------NOT SAVED BY!

I did one "work". I believed the gospel message of Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection and that His blood obtained eternal redemption for me. Eph. 1:7 and Hebrews 9:12

John 6:28-29 (NASB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?"

[SUP]29 [/SUP] Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."


Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

And "look" it is according to the riches of His grace....

Hebrews 9:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.



 
Dec 12, 2013
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I did one "work". I believed the gospel message of Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection and that His blood obtained eternal redemption for me. Eph. 1:7 and Hebrews 9:12

John 6:28-29 (NASB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?"

[SUP]29 [/SUP] Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."


Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

And "look" it is according to the riches of His grace....

Hebrews 9:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.



AMEN....as have ALL genuine believers.........
 

Limey410v2

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2017
416
77
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NNMc

How can I out this?

You have no need to be sorry.
You, me and others are all still learning. That is nothing to be sorry about.
God loves a heart that seeks after him and his ways and his thoughts.

The only thing to be sorry about is when one thinks they know everything about God and his ways.

Truth is those who are like that will never be sorry.

Keep pressing in and pressing on, like we should all do.
Amen to that !!!
 

Limey410v2

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2017
416
77
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words poorly chosen by me

sorry

based on romans 4
I most certainly wan't admonishing you my man, you seem to have a kind heart and have a thoughtful eye for scripture! You owe me no apology, I was really just rambling myself :cool:
I think I understand what you meant when you say owe a debt. It comes from the overwhelming gratitude, and the knowledge that we didn't deserve it.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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I most certainly wan't admonishing you my man, you seem to have a kind heart and have a thoughtful eye for scripture! You owe me no apology, I was really just rambling myself :cool:
I think I understand what you meant when you say owe a debt. It comes from the overwhelming gratitude, and the knowledge that we didn't deserve it.
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