Not By Works

UnderGrace · Aug 10, 2017

That may be so, I have yet to read any of the high profile teachers say this, was my point, however other seem to think I am lying.

It is always so baffling how people accuse as if they could know everything I have read or not.

Having said that..I have however read people completely twist the message on the internet, not high profile teachers, saying all kinds of crazy things, but it has always been that way, they did it to Paul too!

eternally-gratefull said:

UnderGrace · Aug 10, 2017

I suggest you do some research

https://expreacherman.com/♦-lordship-salvation-defined/

https://expreacherman.com/2017/03/05/lordship-salvation-following-the-menyouscript/

Ariel82 said:

UnderGrace · Aug 10, 2017

UnderGrace said:

Evidence of good works is Lordship salvation teaching

eternally-gratefull · Aug 10, 2017

Rosemaryx said:

sorry it took so long, had to drive back to shop.

I look at it this way, The first time I heard OSAS, I did not know what it was, I asked, I was told it stood for Once Saved Always Saved, I was like, yes, I believe in eternal security, so yes, I agree with this TERM. I came to find out (after being here awhile) it is a term used by calvinists. And it is used to describe a particular doctrine in calvinist theology.

Now. I do not agree with Tulip, I disagree with double predestination, and do not like the fatalistic view that all things are preordained and God made them all happen. and there is nothing anyone can do (free will is basically abolished)

this leaves me with a possible issue, Since OSAS is calvanist, and since I am against this theology, do I go against OSAS? Well I think some hate the theology so much that they will want nothing to do with OSAS or any other doctrine which MAY support them.

in doing this, they can not even believe in any doctrine which would even make the words themselves (once saved always saved) be true. because in many minds, even acknowledging that if this is true, other aspects must be true also.

so we have these churches, and institutions that make up these arguments for why these terms can not be true, fight it at all cost. It is anti biblical. We can not stand for it.

Whether the term is true or not becomes an after thought.

The signs, You will see them say those who stand up for it believe all these things (even though all or non of those things are true)

You will see ad hominem arguments, Like instead of arguing against the points being made, an outright "your wrong, I am right", or "it is all against Gods word" (no proof)

And finally, you will see character assasination against those defending it, instead of discussing the words being made.. To the point, no conversation can be had, and people listening in get sick of the infighting so they turn away.

it is a win at all cost attitude, and I think as you said, it comes from listening to men, and not listening to God.

As I have always said, if your gospel truth makes sense, you do not have to do any of the things to make it stand, it will stand on its own, just discuss the word..

anyway, I know it was wordy, I hope it made sense.. lol

Rosemaryx · Aug 10, 2017

Stunnedbygrace said:

Hi Stunnedbygrace...Thanks for that...I think i will keep my ears covered for now lol, it just seems to me a dangerous place to go, it`s a bit like being in here sometimes, a lot noise because people are not listening to each other, but i come in here with fear and trembling sometimes, never knowing what is going to be said, but the beauty is, many times i have come away daily and got a beautiful little nugget that fits perfectly with the Word of God, i like them moments...xox...

Meggido · Aug 10, 2017

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

Amen....easy believism is a mor---- term made up by those who work for their salvation....more fluff....It please God by the foolishness of preaching to save those that BELIEVE <---- WHAT the workers for call easy believism.....

Ariel82 said:

Ok so since you guys either do not under the term or believe in the term easy-believing, let me define what it is...and it is very Biblical......I do not expect any of the OSAS camp to support this, because its too easy for them to just shout out...oh yeah, those people, they are not really saved anyway....yet not many of you[not you Ariel] can tell us what the salvation walk looks like after conversion...

easy-believing is better called, mental assenting.

Mental assent believing means a person believes in their mind, but not in their heart...They mental assent to Jesus forgiving their sins, but never believe in their heart or confess with their mouth...[Romans 10.9-10]

Mental assent believing is usually a result of worldly sorrow and the Bible says this sorrow leads to death [2 Cor 7.10]

What is worldly sorrow? It is a fake form of repenting, that simply says...I am sorry I got caught living in SIN and then there is no real heart change...

Mental assenting believing is taught in the parable of the sower....I do not expect OSAS or predestination Calvinists to believe this and they don't....

How is Mental assenting believing/easy-believing propagated....By perverting what true grace is and that perverted grace allows you to simply believe what Jesus did for you and then covers you to live ANY WAY you want, nothing personal is needed for spiritual growth,no bearing fruit is needed....just live in grace...live like hell, get drunk all the time, take drugs, look at porn, engage in homosexual sex, be a fornicator, never change, let wrath continue to let you act like a child......take the kids to sports activities on Sundays, its OK not to read your bible, pray, fast, seek God's will and direction, by all means leave others alone and let them work out their own salvation...fruit bearing!?!? who needs it...I am saved I have grace....an apple tree is still and apple tree if its dead or never bears apples....then go back to church on Sunday or not any church and bask and swim in grace....Obey God, live for God, love others.!?!?!?..heck no...that is the preachers job....be Spirit led...whats that...sounds scary and is mysticism, not the found in the Bible.....I have free salvation and can live like hell....God is Good and so that means I am good...

The Bible says the old man is buried with Christ and the new man is raised into newness of life with Christ...the Bible says at salvation you are made into a new creature and old things pass away...The Bible says we become slaves to righteousness not slaves to sin, the Bible says put off the old man and put on the new...and some posters here laugh at this and say it is not needed because they are saved by grace and through faith and none of that matters....

This is mental assenting brought to you by perverted grace teaching...

eternally-gratefull · Aug 10, 2017

Rosemaryx said:

we should not be taking sides anyway, Just tell us what you believe, Chances are you may agree wiht one side or the other. But it does not mean you are taking sides.

just because you are like minded with one side, does snot mean you are taking sides, and apposing the other. You just believe what you believe.

Meggido · Aug 10, 2017

Ariel82 said:

Nope it does not...mental assenting hits all systematic theology and many in the body are trapped by it and do not even know it...

eternally-gratefull · Aug 10, 2017

Meggido said:

This is what is called labeling people.. Your not going to get a meaningful conversation when you label people. Especially since most likely, all people who believe in this "term" may not agree with everything, (ie, if someone considers OSAS a calvin doctrine, they tend to label anyone who believes in the "term" as calvanistic") thus the root of the conversation is most likely already in danger, because you have assumptions about with the person your trying to converse with which are not true

(just using it as an example, not saying what this poster said in his post is not true) I have not even read it yet.

Cee · Aug 10, 2017

Ariel82 said:

Okay so let's keep it in context.

You state:

1) We must crucify the flesh.
2) We must learn to walk with His Holy Spirit.

Let's look at the context together:

Galatians 2:2 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

This Scripture teaches us that we do not crucify the flesh, but that we have been crucified. Past tense. It's already done. We get to accept it by faith. This isn't a command to follow, this is a reality to be accepted by faith.

Once we have received by faith the reality our flesh has been crucified, we only have one way to live... by the Spirit. Alive to God in Christ.

Romans 6:11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Do you disagree? And if so, how do you read this Scripture in context different to what Paul and G777 stated?

Meggido · Aug 10, 2017

Cee said:

Okay so let's keep it in context.

You state:

1) We must crucify the flesh.
2) We must learn to walk with His Holy Spirit.

Let's look at the context together:

Galatians 2:2 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

This Scripture teaches us that we do not crucify the flesh, but that we have been crucified. Past tense. It's already done. We get to accept it by faith. This isn't a command to follow, this is a reality to be accepted by faith.

Once we have received by faith the reality our flesh has been crucified, we only have one way to live... by the Spirit. Alive to God in Christ.

Romans 6:11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Do you disagree? And if so, how do you read this Scripture in context different to what Paul and G777 stated?

How does Gal 5.24 fit in here Cee...

[SUP]24 [/SUP]Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

eternally-gratefull · Aug 10, 2017

Meggido said:

I agree with what this poster said about mental assent, However, I would not myself term this "easy believism" Term, I would rather use A term the bible uses. One term the bible is uses is a term Jude used, which is lewdness or licentiousness.

in a nut shell, I would say it is people who have heard about a man named jesus, heard he died on a cross. Believe in heaven and hell, and and are told if you say this pray (called a sinners prayer) you will be saved forever, Repentance does snot matter, Faith does not matter, Say this prayer and you will be given eternal life.

they then become what James called people who are hearers of the word and not doers. people who claim to have faiht, but have no works,, WHo james said, their faith is dead.

the poster is right, people who teach grace alone do not buy this doctrine, We do not think these people are saved, and will fight it tooth and nail

the problem is, the term "easy believism" is used against all grace teachers, whether they believe in this perverted truth or not.

which is why as was mentioned awhile back, maybe we should stop discussing terms which can be confused and misunderstood. and just discuss what each other believes.. Then the mistakes of misunderstanding or labeling will fall away.

Cee · Aug 10, 2017

willybob said:

Interesting point, let me ask you this:

Do you only obey God so that you can acquire final salvation? I ask this because in your reply you are assuming it about other people.

eternally-gratefull · Aug 10, 2017

Meggido said:

I have been a church goer for over 40 years, I have been to churches all over the eastern united states, and spoken to many believers from all churches.

I have yet to see one person, or one church who was trapped by mental assent theology. (not saying they are not out there, Just sayinng, if they were numerous, as you say, you would think I would have found some) Sadly, I have seen many trapped by legalistic theology. and the reason I have come to discover is because they are afraid of what they call easy believism theology. thats why they believe the way they do.

I have heard this reasoning by many in CC since I have been here.. I have yet to meet one person in CC that I remember, who has bought into the mental ascent theology.

but for some odd reason, I hear many preach against it, as if it is a major issue in CC which needs taken care of.

Cee · Aug 10, 2017

Meggido said:

Hi Meggido,

I will answer you, but can you be a little bit more specific in what you're asking me?

eternally-gratefull · Aug 10, 2017

Meggido said:

it is still a past tense statement of fact concerning a group of people (those who belong to christ)

Those who belong to christ (all who are gods children)

have crucified the flesh.

it doess ssnot say they might, they need to, or they may not do it, It says they have.

eternally-gratefull · Aug 10, 2017

sticky s and a buttons today.. wonderful..lol

Cee · Aug 10, 2017

Our theology can fall off the rails if we use it to try to judge other people instead of first ourselves. That's how ideas like, "mental assent" come into play. And ideas, like "people won't obey God if they don't believe they can lose their salvation". A better question would be to ask, "Do I have more than mental assent?" and "Do I only obey God to keep my salvation?"

People can be saved, but unfortunately not be discipled. It doesn't mean they're not saved. It means they aren't discipled and they don't understand what has happened to them in Christ. When Scripture writers tell their audience ideas like "examine themselves to see if they are in the faith" they also follow up with positive statements about believing the best about their readers. I suggest we do the same. It is encouragement that builds up the Body of Christ.

Meggido · Aug 10, 2017

Cee said:

you say we do not crucify the flesh, since we have been crucified...so how does Gal 5.24 fit into that statement...

PennEd · Aug 10, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

Yeah. Imagine the ridicule Noah endured building this thing in his driveway for a hundred yrs! Very likely no one had ever seen rain. Much less a global flood.

I've heard some Rabbis think Noah may have even GROWN the trees the Lord told him to use for the ark!

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