Not By Works

[Stunnedbygrace]

Stunned, Jesus was under the law, and fulfilling it by His life. He was showing how evil the natural man is without His presence within us.

I agree. And now He wants to fulfill it in ME!

So when Stephen said: By having the Holy Spirit convict/convince me of sin,, respond favorably, and obey Him, - I said: Okay, good, He has definitely convinced me that anger in my heart is to have already murdered, I responded favorably by agreeing with Him that anger in my heart is murder, but the obedience part I find I cannot do no matter how hard I try.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

But to say "just don't sin in anger" doesn't make sense to me...murder IS sin. So if I have anger in my heart at you, I have ALREADY murdered according to our Lord. So I have already sinned...so to then say, don't sin in anger doesn't make sense to me.

whoa whoa whoa

Psalms 37:8 - Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil.

Proverbs 14:29 - [He that is] slow to wrath [is] of great understanding: but [he that is] hasty of spirit exalteth folly.

James 1:20 - For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

Ephesians 4:26 - Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath



Matthew 5:22

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.



anger without cause is sin

we should NOT be easilly angered


but if we see an injustice

and feel angry to find out some woman was abused by someone

but dont let ourselfs come to wrath

and pray not only for HER

but the abuser too.... i dont think that is unjust anger


we are angry over the fact someone was unjustly treated

but not angry without cause ... or bringing wrath forth


am i wrong?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

We don't have to act in anger such as yelling. And believe me stunned, this is fairly new to me. We don't have to lose control when we yield to His Spirit within us. Calmly state to whoever, why you are angry. Then the ball is in their court so to speak, to respond.

What does it matter whether I keep my outside looking good by not yelling if I have already murdered? Do I want to impress men? Or do I want to know how in the HECK I can stop being a murderer?

 

[stonesoffire]

Is there a way to get free from whoever or whatever causes the anger? That could be one answer. If not, then walking in peace (your peace within, not the situation) is the best thing. This peace comes from knowing you are His totally, and even losing temper can't divide us from the love of God shown in Christ Jesus. This is grace!

 

[stonesoffire]

What does it matter whether I keep my outside looking good by not yelling if I have already murdered? Do I want to impress men? Or do I want to know how in the HECK I can stop being a murderer?

You aren't guilty if you are angry. No condemnation. Ever. You are His child.

 

[BillG]

What does it matter whether I keep my outside looking good by not yelling if I have already murdered? Do I want to impress men? Or do I want to know how in the HECK I can stop being a murderer?

Are the following verses what you are alluding to?

Matthew 5:21-24
Murder Begins in the Heart
21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

 

[stonesoffire]

whoa whoa whoa

Psalms 37:8 - Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil.

Proverbs 14:29 - [He that is] slow to wrath [is] of great understanding: but [he that is] hasty of spirit exalteth folly.

James 1:20 - For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

Ephesians 4:26 - Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath



Matthew 5:22

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.



anger without cause is sin

we should NOT be easilly angered


but if we see an injustice

and feel angry to find out some woman was abused by someone

but dont let ourselfs come to wrath

and pray not only for HER

but the abuser too.... i dont think that is unjust anger


we are angry over the fact someone was unjustly treated

but not angry without cause ... or bringing wrath forth


am i wrong?

What about an abused child of God. Can't leave a situation. We need an answer here, andvthis is not my specialty. Depleted, where are you?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No one was born from above until the time of Jesus. David wrote a lot that was prophetic, looking ahead to who was coming and what He would do.

Hey sis, I do believe OT people had fruit also, It came from faith, imagine what Noah went through to build the ark, a lot of faith, and a lot of fruit, I would venture to so most NT believers would not have made it.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

What about an abused child of God. Can't leave a situation. We need an answer here, andvthis is not my specialty. Depleted, where are you?

Psalms 82:3

“Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.”



____________


youre talking about present tense?

anger is expected i think

but dont let it stir up WRATH


theres a difference between helping someone in need

and taking vengence against a sinner

 

[Meggido]

By accepting Jesus as our Savior, Jesus is put in our place at the second judgement and we are declared righteous because of His life. We then have the freedom to grow up into the Christian character talked of everywhere in the New Testament and shown at work in the life of Christ. This is a process and takes time. The Holy Spirit knows each person more intimately than they know themselves and works with each one accordingly. Growth is something we look for in our lives as proof that the Holy Spirit is working through us to will and to do His good pleasure. It is consummated by those, who like Jesus, die for others - even praying for those who kill them. There is no greater love than this. But the Holy Spirit is the one who takes responsibility for doing this through us. It is our responsibility to listen and obey Him. Grace is ALL of this.

How does Jesus take our Place at the second Judgement, when he is the one doing the judging?


John 5.21-23

[SUP]21 [/SUP]For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, [SUP]23 [/SUP]so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

 

[stonesoffire]

I agree. And now He wants to fulfill it in ME!

So when Stephen said: By having the Holy Spirit convict/convince me of sin,, respond favorably, and obey Him, - I said: Okay, good, He has definitely convinced me that anger in my heart is to have already murdered, I responded favorably by agreeing with Him that anger in my heart is murder, but the obedience part I find I cannot do no matter how hard I try.

This is not true. Only Jesus was capable of fulfilling law. He treaded the wine press alone.

 

[stonesoffire]

Isa 63:5 And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine ownarm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

whoa whoa whoa

Psalms 37:8 - Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil.

Proverbs 14:29 - [He that is] slow to wrath [is] of great understanding: but [he that is] hasty of spirit exalteth folly.

James 1:20 - For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

Ephesians 4:26 - Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath



Matthew 5:22

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.



anger without cause is sin

we should NOT be easilly angered


but if we see an injustice

and feel angry to find out some woman was abused by someone

but dont let ourselfs come to wrath

and pray not only for HER

but the abuser too.... i dont think that is unjust anger


we are angry over the fact someone was unjustly treated

but not angry without cause ... or bringing wrath forth


am i wrong?

Okay, I'll get really, really real.

My mother comes out in the morning and proceeds to tell me how I have not cooked the bacon right, how I forgot to take the trash down the night before as she asked, then she sits down to her plate and tells me I musn't forget to do the dishes because my aunt is coming over. She asks me will I have time please to vacuum real quick before she arrives. I get up to rinse my plate and she asks me if I will go downstairs and let her dog out. I say yes and head down the stairs. She reminds me to get the trash. When I come back upstairs, she asks me if I will take down the recycling. Meanwhile, she has finished eating, has not rinsed her plate or cared that I will have to now scrub the dried yolk off, and is on the phone laughing with someone. She holds her hand over the receiver as I walk by and asks if I will go to the store for some groceries so she can have lunch for she and my aunt. I finally explode, but the anger has been building and building and I have been murdering her because she is sooo selfish.

So, I am angry over the fact that someone is being so unjustly treated, and that person is ME! Will you say I am angry with cause?

Now, our Lord was much more unjustly treated than me, and He didn't have anger in His heart but instead said, forgive them. He forgave me of all my selfishnesses. So can it be correct that I murder my mother in anger for her selfishnesses and then say I have cause?

 

[stonesoffire]

Psalms 82:3

“Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.”



____________


youre talking about present tense?

anger is expected i think

but dont let it stir up WRATH


theres a difference between helping someone in need

and taking vengence against a sinner

Yes, I agree. But, stunned has a,problem here and only truth sets one free. Am just,listening to what I am hearing now.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

This is not true. Only Jesus was capable of fulfilling law. He treaded the wine press alone.

I agree that He is the only one capable of fulfilling the law.
What part of my post do you think is not true?

 

[stonesoffire]

Okay, I'll get really, really real.

My mother comes out in the morning and proceeds to tell me how I have not cooked the bacon right, how I forgot to take the trash down the night before as she asked, then she sits down to her plate and tells me I musn't forget to do the dishes because my aunt is coming over. She asks me will I have time please to vacuum real quick before she arrives. I get up to rinse my plate and she asks me if I will go downstairs and let her dog out. I say yes and head down the stairs. She reminds me to get the trash. When I come back upstairs, she asks me if I will take down the recycling. Meanwhile, she has finished eating, has not rinsed her plate or cared that I will have to now scrub the dried yolk off, and is on the phone laughing with someone. She holds her hand over the receiver as I walk by and asks if I will go to the store for some groceries so she can have lunch for she and my aunt. I finally explode, but the anger has been building and building and I have been murdering her because she is sooo selfish.

So, I am angry over the fact that someone is being so unjustly treated, and that person is ME! Will you say I am angry with cause?

Now, our Lord was much more unjustly treated than me, and He didn't have anger in His heart but instead said, forgive them. He forgave me of all my selfishnesses. So can it be correct that I murder my mother in anger for her selfishnesses and then say I have cause?

I would just stop being a doormat. Tell her no. And why.

 

[UnderGrace]

We obey Him by believing in what He has said is true, all sin is forgiven and already dealt with at the cross.

It is knowing and being persuaded of this, that is our essential duty to obey and believe

It does not have a hold on you, look to Him not your sin, there is no freedom by constantly looking at our sin....we seek to make sure we are in Him and we do this by remembering who were are in Him, redeemed, not condemned, set free from the bondage of sin.

I'll ask again, HOW can we obey Him if anger in our heart is murder?

The best I can do is try to not let anyone see my anger, hide it inside.

The Holy Spirit has definitely convinced me that anger in my heart at another is murder. I have agreed, responded in belief that what He said is true. Now I am supposed to obey Him and not have anger in my heart? That would be obedience to His command. Except that no matter how hard I try, I CAN'T never have anger in my heart at another. So is He asking the impossible from me?

 

[stonesoffire]

I agree that He is the only one capable of fulfilling the law.
What part of my post do you think is not true?

The part where you have to have law fulfilled in you too.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Okay, I'll get really, really real.

My mother comes out in the morning and proceeds to tell me how I have not cooked the bacon right, how I forgot to take the trash down the night before as she asked, then she sits down to her plate and tells me I musn't forget to do the dishes because my aunt is coming over. She asks me will I have time please to vacuum real quick before she arrives. I get up to rinse my plate and she asks me if I will go downstairs and let her dog out. I say yes and head down the stairs. She reminds me to get the trash. When I come back upstairs, she asks me if I will take down the recycling. Meanwhile, she has finished eating, has not rinsed her plate or cared that I will have to now scrub the dried yolk off, and is on the phone laughing with someone. She holds her hand over the receiver as I walk by and asks if I will go to the store for some groceries so she can have lunch for she and my aunt. I finally explode, but the anger has been building and building and I have been murdering her because she is sooo selfish.

So, I am angry over the fact that someone is being so unjustly treated, and that person is ME! Will you say I am angry with cause?

Now, our Lord was much more unjustly treated than me, and He didn't have anger in His heart but instead said, forgive them. He forgave me of all my selfishnesses. So can it be correct that I murder my mother in anger for her selfishnesses and then say I have cause?

hmmmm

if you are living by the law of the spirit of life

and not the law of sin and death

forgive her
ask for forgiveness

and learn from this trial

let the Holy spirit allow this to work patience in you


was your anger unjust?
im not sure


was you exploding ungodly?
yeah

thats why you should feel bad about

be convicted by the Holy spirit and forgive as our Holy God forgives us


it sounds to me like you ARENT justifying this anger

so if its on your heart it was wrong
then it may have been without just cause


James 4:17

17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.



praise God for making you new
and knowing you should be more patient and convict you to stay away from dishing out wrath (the explosion)

 

[UnderGrace]

I would agree being a dormat only gives her more reason to make demands.

I would just stop being a doormat. Tell her no. And why.