Not By Works

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Feb 24, 2015
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Yes, also we forget that Jesus is the sower, and He loves all types of soil, so much so that He is willing to sow seed on any type of ground.

A typical farmer would never really plant his seed on anything but good soil.

But then Jesus is anything but a typical farmer :)
This is so blind. Only the good soil is fruitful, the rest are doomed to destruction.
The whole point of the parable of the seed and the sower was to show this.

You have to actually not read Jesus's words to come with a different meaning. It demonstrates
the heresy that so easily is just accepted without seeing the poison it represents, no matter how
nice the preacher appears to be, Jesus is the authority not the preacher.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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I was listening to Hillsong today and realised for some singing is their faith, not how they
live. This is the world of total relativism, where there is no morality any more, just what you
can cope with. Switching wives, no problem, gay relationships, you are just being honest,
appropriating wealth, you deserve it, you are a child of God after all.

You cannot be relativist about Jesus. Love matters above all else and consequences
are His heart beat. Be faithful, honest and true, be known to be a rock in Christ, and work
it through all you do. You are Christ on earth, Gods will demonstrated in human form.

Do you know how you walk shows the power of God at work in man. You are not your own
but part of an eternal witness to the power of the cross.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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I was listening to Hillsong today and realised for some singing is their faith, not how they
live.
Not a fan of Hillsong, but that you ""realized" singing is the faith of some, not how they live" merely shows you to be the Luke 18:9 man and that you hold disdain for others and think yourself righteous.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.” Luke 18:13,14


 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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[video=youtube;jIMhshpf0Y4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIMhshpf0Y4[/video]

Love this song.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.” Luke 18:13,14
Yep, stood at a distance, unworthy, unlike the many on here who foolishly brag of their worthiness and alleged good works and speak down of others at the same time as did peterjens recently.

Even Paul would not consider himself of such arrogant high degree post conversion. Just read 1 Timothy 1 concerning how he considered himself, in present tense Greek, "chief of sinners".

But not these on here, no no, these that are so righteous and will spend hours on end telling others about themselves, their most favorite subject!
 
Dec 28, 2016
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It is highly doubtful those who hold such a high opinion of self, while holding contempt for others have ever had a transforming encounter with Christ. To meet Christ, and have a transforming encounter is to ever be acquainted with ones own personal wickedness.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Even Paul would not consider himself of such arrogant high degree post conversion. Just read 1 Timothy 1 concerning how he considered himself, in present tense Greek, "chief of sinners".

But not these on here, no no, these that are so righteous and will spend hours on end telling others about themselves, their most favorite subject!
Yes and it is recorded that Matthew went with Paul on His second missionary journey for his trail before Caesar, to assist Paul and keep notes. Matthew requested his name be withheld from scripture because he new their is no glory to be told other than Christ crucified. Although you can see reference to Matthew in the Book of Acts - you will never see his name mentioned once.

We are so not worthy of anything of praise - nothing in my hands do I bring only to thy cross do I cling. A difficult concept for some to believe.
 
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Dec 28, 2016
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Yes and it is recorded that Matthew went with Paul on His second missionary journey for his trail before Caesar, to assist Paul and keep notes. Matthew requested his name be withheld from scripture because he new their is no glory to be told other than Christ crucified. Although you can see reference to Matthew in the Book of Acts - you will never see his name mentioned once.

We are so not worthy of anything worth praise - nothing in my hands do I bring only to thy cross do I cling. A difficult concept for some to believe.
Amen my brother!
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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Yep, stood at a distance, unworthy, unlike the many on here who foolishly brag of their worthiness and alleged good works and speak down of others at the same time as did peterjens recently.

Even Paul would not consider himself of such arrogant high degree post conversion. Just read 1 Timothy 1 concerning how he considered himself, in present tense Greek, "chief of sinners".

But not these on here, no no, these that are so righteous and will spend hours on end telling others about themselves, their most favorite subject!
"But not these on here, no no, these that are so righteous and will spend hours on end telling others about themselves, their most favorite subject!"

Don't you sometime's wounder where their theology comes from.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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Hi Seohce...Thank you for posting these Scriptures...The reason is i went to visit my son today who is in prison, he has been walking with our Lord for 3 months...Today he was telling me how hard he is finding it being among people who are walking in darkness, and now he has the light of the Holy Spirit in him he sees what Jesus has set him free from:)...So tomorrow when i send him his email, i will send these to him, to remind him when he feels his light is only a flicker, he can be the flicker on the hill that shines among the darkness...So although your post is for someone else, i just want you to know that i have received these Scriptures well...God is wonderful, he uses us all to help someone when we least expect it so thank you...xox...

Praise God and to Him be all the glory. I will pray for you and your son. God bless!

New International Version 1984 Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
My general policy is not to respond to you.

But again it pains me not to......

First of all my parents farmed and can tell you from first hand knowledge that the seeds came from the crop in the autumn, they were cleaned and set aside to be planted in the spring, some from each of the different vegetables.

It required work and it required obtaining the best seeds for a good harvest. A farmer does not indiscriminately just throw his precious seeds anywhere.

A farmer also knows the soil has to be cared for from year to year to yield good crop.

Yet the sower in the parable haphazardly sows his seeds on all kinds of soil.

Do you really think that Jesus, who knew He was talking to people who knew about farming, was not also making a point about the sower and his actions and not just the soil.

It is only hidden form those who refuse to see.



This is so blind. Only the good soil is fruitful, the rest are doomed to destruction.
The whole point of the parable of the seed and the sower was to show this.

You have to actually not read Jesus's words to come with a different meaning. It demonstrates
the heresy that so easily is just accepted without seeing the poison it represents, no matter how
nice the preacher appears to be, Jesus is the authority not the preacher.
 
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TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
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My general policy is not to respond to you.

But again it pains me not to......

First of all my parents farmed and can tell you from first hand knowledge that the seeds came from the crop in the autumn, they were cleaned and set aside to be planted in the spring, some from each of the different vegetables.

It required work and it required obtaining the best seeds for a good harvest. A farmer does not indiscriminately just throw his precious seeds anywhere.

A farmer also knows the soil has to be cared for from year to year to yield good crop.

Yet the sower in the parable haphazardly sows his seeds on all kinds of soil.

Do you really think that Jesus, who knew He was talking to people who knew about farming, was not also making a point about the sower and his actions and not just the soil.

It is only hidden form those who refuse to see.
And that which you state is the point of Jesus parable. My wife and I worked on her Aunt's plantation for 5yrs; it was an experience of a life time to see two rice harvest's per year. From plowing the fields, then planting the seedlings and flooding the rice paddies prior to planting; the water ways had to be maintained so that every plant received water. These rice paddies became like a living and breathing organism with every type of creature living within the water ways, including fresh water crabs.

I would just say this, It is God who plants the seed, the Word of God, in our heart, it is He who causes our growth and brings us to full maturity. It is the Holy Spirit who is our teacher and Helper who prepare's us all along they way for heaven where we will worship and serve the Kind of Kings and Lord of Lords Forever and ever.
 
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PHart

Guest
Everyone hears you. The thing is you make contradictory statements and then misunderstand certain Scriptures such as "save yourselves" from Peter in Acts 2:40. You stated it was works salvation.
I said he WASN'T teaching works salvation. How did you not see what I wrote?


I pointed out your contradiction. The thing that is interesting is you are incapable of accepting the fact you made contradictory statements. Why not just man up Phart and admit it? Everyone can see it (who are honest anyhow).
Well, you would think everyone can see what I wrote, lol. But it's clear that you and those who are liked your post did not. Here's one place where I said Peter is not teaching a works gospel. The bold parts are bold in the original post:
I'm not saying Peter's teaching a works gospel. I'm asking YOU and everybody else to explain how it is that Peter can say, "save yourselves" in a 'salvation by grace apart from works' altar call and that not mean you earn your own salvation. If you can do that then you will understand how works are required in salvation and those works not earn salvation.


"38Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
40With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” " (Acts 2:38-40 NIV)



So explain it. How is it that Peter is teaching salvation by grace through faith apart from works, which he surely is, yet tells the people to 'save yourselves'? Explain that, then you will finally understand how works have to be a part of salvation without those works earning that salvation. Can you do it?
As you can plainly see (I think, lol), I not only didn't say Peter was teaching a works gospel, I said he was not. How did you miss my plain, bold words?
 
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PHart

Guest
It is our humbleness and insecurity that keeps us true. No
matter how long we have walked with the Lord, we can still go astray.
Here you go PHart. Didn't take long. What do you say to this?
What do I say to that? PeterJens is merely paraphrasing what Paul said:

"12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall!" (1 Corinthians 10:12)

Even fourth type of soil can potentially not remain fourth type of soil. Nobody 'arrives' until the resurrection occurs. Until then we are to be vigilant in guarding against falling. But that hardly means we can not be the fourth type of soil in this life. It's not self righteous to be the fourth type of soil.
 
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PHart

Guest
Am about weary of this right now. :) How about when I see it I will point it out to you. Not going to go back and review.

Will say this though...it's like a religious spirit sneaks in to bring condemnation. That is what I see most.
No need to go back and review. Since I posted the post you're responding to above there are these posts just before this post condemning Christians for dare thinking they can be fourth type of soil people.
 
P

PHart

Guest
I was not indoctrinated, I can read it plainly in scripture, salvation is eternal life, not temporal life
If this is true that you are not indoctrinated, how is it that you can not see the passages of scripture that say continued believing is the condition for being saved?

And it is this indoctrination of the church (and I mean that in every negative connotation of the word) that keeps people from being able to grasp that eternal life is eternal not because you can't lose it in this lifetime, but because God's promise is that the life you possess (if you keep believing) can never end. See the difference between that and what you believe?

I'm not asking you to agree with it, I'm merely asking if you can even comprehend this opposing argument. Most can not. They can not fathom how it's possible that eternal life can still be eternal despite the fact that you can lose it in this lifetime. They think the only way life can be eternal is that you can not lose it. But I'm showing you that eternal life can still be eternal even though you can lose it in this lifetime: The former believer simply ceases to possess that which is eternal.


Are you saying that even though we do not earn salvation, we are obligated to maintain it by continued belief or by continued work, because sometimes you say one and then sometimes the other?
I have never said you maintain salvation by continued work, because I don't believe that. What I'm saying is, you stay saved as long as you continue to believe. Your work is merely the way we can tell if we are continuing to believe. Works do not earn or maintain salvation. But it keeps getting heard that way. And I know why it keeps getting heard that way. The church is horribly defensive about the believer's obligation to not walk in the flesh (Romans 8:12). And I know why they are defensive about that, too.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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My general policy is not to respond to you.

But again it pains me not to......

First of all my parents farmed and can tell you from first hand knowledge that the seeds came from the crop in the autumn, they were cleaned and set aside to be planted in the spring, some from each of the different vegetables.

It required work and it required obtaining the best seeds for a good harvest. A farmer does not indiscriminately just throw his precious seeds anywhere.

A farmer also knows the soil has to be cared for from year to year to yield good crop.

Yet the sower in the parable haphazardly sows his seeds on all kinds of soil.

Do you really think that Jesus, who knew He was talking to people who knew about farming, was not also making a point about the sower and his actions and not just the soil.

It is only hidden form those who refuse to see.
If this is true that you are not indoctrinated, how is it that you can not see the passages of scripture that say continued believing is the condition for being saved?

And it is this indoctrination of the church (and I mean that in every negative connotation of the word) that keeps people from being able to grasp that eternal life is eternal not because you can't lose it in this lifetime, but because God's promise is that the life you possess (if you keep believing) can never end. See the difference between that and what you believe?

I'm not asking you to agree with it, I'm merely asking if you can even comprehend this opposing argument. Most can not. They can not fathom how it's possible that eternal life can still be eternal despite the fact that you can lose it in this lifetime. They think the only way life can be eternal is that you can not lose it. But I'm showing you that eternal life can still be eternal even though you can lose it in this lifetime: The former believer simply ceases to possess that which is eternal.



I have never said you maintain salvation by continued work, because I don't believe that. What I'm saying is, you stay saved as long as you continue to believe. Your work is merely the way we can tell if we are continuing to believe. Works do not earn or maintain salvation. But it keeps getting heard that way. And I know why it keeps getting heard that way. The church is horribly defensive about the believer's obligation to not walk in the flesh (Romans 8:12). And I know why they are defensive about that, too.

Phart

The reason we are divided on these forums is because we are learning to separate day from night, just like in the beginning. But, it's not by our wisdom. Our wisdom is earthly, and the Word is heavenly. We are becoming the head, and not the tail.

Let me explain. God separated light from darkness. Light is illumination in Hebrew. Night in Hebrew is a twist away from light.

So in our communication with each other, we are separating in the same manner.

The problem arises when we fail to think in the mind of Christ, that we are of one Spirit, and still think as a fleshly earthy man.

Thats where agape should rise out of our "midst" or of our being. Be ing in Him.

We all are at different levels of "the mind of Christ" and friction starts when we see each other as the enemy, and not the enemy as lies opposite the truth found in scriptures.

We have to allow Holy Spirit to work salvation out in us, or we are just beating against the wind.

So it's up to each of us for peace to reign. It has to come from walking in peace first in our life so we are fit for the ministry of reconciliation to the world and to one another.

This came to me as I was awakened from sleep. And am not bragging, I've just learned to be quiet and listen.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Everyone hears you. The thing is you make contradictory statements and then misunderstand certain Scriptures such as "save yourselves" from Peter in Acts 2:40. You stated it was works salvation. I pointed out your contradiction. The thing that is interesting is you are incapable of accepting the fact you made contradictory statements. Why not just man up Phart and admit it? Everyone can see it (who are honest anyhow).

In respect, you need further understanding of the passage you've misused.

Perhaps this will help you:

saying, save yourselves from this untoward generation: meaning, the chief priests, Scribes, and Pharisees, and elders of the people, chiefly, who were a perverse generation of men; and upon whom, for their impenitence and unbelief, for their rejection of the Messiah, and their evil treatment of him, wrath and ruin would come upon them, to the uttermost, very quickly; wherefore the apostle exhorts to separate from them, and not partake of their sins, lest they should also of their plagues; but come out from among them, and so, in a temporal sense, save themselves from the destruction that would quickly come on their nation, city, and temple; and so the Arabic version renders it, "escape from this rough generation". - John Gill

If the passage meant what you're implying "do works" then the audience would have been like "We've already been doing that!" so it is not in the sense you are trying to give to it. The save yourselves meant to lean on Christ as Messiah, in other words "He was your Savior, repent, TRUST in HIM", not on works, into which you are twisting the text. Context supports this. Think about it. You are MAKING Peter say what you want him to say instead of letting Scripture speak in its context.

You do this often in your zeal and make many errors my friend.
To view salvation as losable and that which must be maintained by works not only starts with error, but leads deeper into error