Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
Fran

loveme1 stated that eternal life is the reward of our works. Now both of you please give the scriptures that state this.
I'm going to list some.
But keep in mind that some believe that our reward will be something other than heaven. Our reward IS HEAVEN.
Then, Beyond that, we don't really know if there will also be some type of "reward" in heaven. if YOU have some scripsture about this, I'd appreciate seeing it. Personally, I'm not too concerned with rewards which is why I've never responded to this.
For me, HEAVEN is my reward, as the N.T. teaches me.

**************************************************************

James 1:12 -

Blessed [is] the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.




Colossians 3:23-24 -

23 And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.


Matthew 16:27 -

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.


Matthew 25:21 -

His lord said unto him, Well done, [thou] good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Romans 2:6

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”

*****************************************************************

There are many more.
For instance, the very last one... God will repay each person according to what they have done...
This has to be coupled with John 5:28-29


John 5:28-29 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,

29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a
resurrection of judgment.
 
Z
Jesus was crucified because it was God's plan. Jesus said no one can take my life but I lay it down.. The Bible also says had it been known who He was they wouldn't have crucified Him.
What's ridiculous about it? Salvation IS NOT and CAN NOT be earned. It is a GIFT bestowed on us by God as a result of our having faith and belief in Him. Jesus got crucified because they knew who He was, and were afraid of His power and what He could do.. So EG is right on point with his statement.. :)
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
EG,

This is a gospel that is preached fervently on the streets by some street preachers in the US and Canada and I guess beyond

From my experience this movement preaches exactly as loveme1 preaches.

They have circumvented the entire you can loose eternal life falsity, by saying we only receive eternal life as a reward by works at the end when we die.

My experience with them is they have a very plain reading of scripture, often not accepting the deeper language of scripture.

Again the nullify the work of the cross.



Who taught you that that you can EARN salvation by being good? That is what the Jews preached, They crucified Christ because he had the nerve to tell them they were wrong,
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
EG,

This is a gospel that is preached fervently on the streets by some street preachers in the US and Canada and I guess beyond

From my experience this movement preaches exactly as loveme1 preaches.

They have circumvented the entire you can loose eternal life falsity, by saying we only receive eternal life as a reward by works at the end when we die.

My experience with them is they have a very plain reading of scripture, often not accepting the deeper language of scripture.

Again the nullify the work of the cross.
I just posted this above...

HOW is this nullifying the cross?
JESUS is saying this:


John 5:28-29 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
 
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
That verse goes very deep! The Pharisees were beyond reproach as to Gods' commands (looking at things humanly).

They obeyed meticulously in tithing, the Sabbath, etc.

And yet Jesus said their righteousness must EXCEED that of the Pharisees!

Yes...I agree 100%

The Pharisees and priest of that day led very moral outward living lives and were strict in their "law-keeping" but Jesus exposed their self-righteousness for what it really was.

All works-based believing is all based on the same concept as the Jews who thought that "If they do the Law - they will be saved." The doing of the Law as Jesus pointed out many times is unattainable by the will-power and self-effort of man.

( which is why the Lord put in the animal sacrifices - which all speak of Christ's work. )

Romans 10:2-4 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

The Law being "what one does or doesn't do for righteousness."

Christ Himself has become our righteousness. Get this backwards and we create a religion of self-works.

The true gospel is the "righteousness of God revealed". Rom. 1:16-17 - of that we are not ashamed.
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,920
9,669
113
NOPE. Eternal life WITH GOD is the gift. :) And everyone will be someplace forever, be it heaven or hell, but those in hell won't be living.. They will be forever tormented.

Salvation from Suffering is the gift. We will all live forever somewhere
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
Matthew 25


When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
 
Apr 30, 2016
5,162
75
0
Who taught you that that you can EARN salvation by being good? That is what the Jews preached, They crucified Christ because he had the nerve to tell them they were wrong,
EG

Again I ask:

WHO ON THIS THREAD is talking about earning SALVATION by being good?

Is the problem that you don't believe those of us who want to follow Jesus and do as He instructed ARE NOT SAVED???


Is this the problem?

It seems to me that those posting here are all saved.

WHAT is the problem with working for our Lord and Master???

Please explain.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
I'm going to list some.
But keep in mind that some believe that our reward will be something other than heaven. Our reward IS HEAVEN.
Then, Beyond that, we don't really know if there will also be some type of "reward" in heaven. if YOU have some scripsture about this, I'd appreciate seeing it. Personally, I'm not too concerned with rewards which is why I've never responded to this.
For me, HEAVEN is my reward, as the N.T. teaches me.

**************************************************************

James 1:12 -

Blessed [is] the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.




Colossians 3:23-24 -

23 And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.


Matthew 16:27 -

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.


Matthew 25:21 -

His lord said unto him, Well done, [thou] good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Romans 2:6

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”

*****************************************************************

There are many more.
For instance, the very last one... God will repay each person according to what they have done...
This has to be coupled with John 5:28-29


John 5:28-29 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,

29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a
resurrection of judgment.
fran

the crowns, the ruling with Him is the reward of living our life before the world, and ministering reconciliation to the lost.

I think it was Meggido who was speaking about this. We are on a mission to pull others out of the darkness into the light.

Many stars given in a crown to the one who speaks salvation.

My husband has this gifting. His crown will have many stars. We all are given gifts. The rewards are for working the gifts of Holy Spirit.

But, eternal life is always from the work of Jesus. Only He could save us from the kingdom of darkness, for He is God, and we are not.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
anyone can quote from the Bible, the Pharisees had the OT memorized, they knew it better than both is us put together (the words)

posting scriptute does does not mean a thing, anyone can do it.



Indeed anyone can recite a poem but may not understand what they recite.

That can work two ways tho...
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
70,920
9,669
113
The problem is, doing good works for the express purpose of keeping or gaining salvation, and making sure that those good works get you (general you) into heaven.


We do good works to show God's love to others. We also do them because it is commanded.

But NOT for the purpose of keeping salvation, or getting into heaven.


EG

Again I ask:

WHO ON THIS THREAD is talking about earning SALVATION by being good?

Is the problem that you don't believe those of us who want to follow Jesus and do as He instructed ARE NOT SAVED???


Is this the problem?

It seems to me that those posting here are all saved.

WHAT is the problem with working for our Lord and Master???

Please explain.
 
Z
Then how are they tortured if not alive somehow?
NOPE. Eternal life WITH GOD is the gift. :) And everyone will be someplace forever, be it heaven or hell, but those in hell won't be living.. They will be forever tormented.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
So many go against scripture as the norm here .. making up something to scratch itchy ears..
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Be careful not to nullify the work of the cross in your theology...if any of us could earn heaven by good works then Jesus would not have died on the cross. Plain and Simple


PLEASE NOTE:
But just a few verses earlier (vs. 24) Jesus defined what He meant by good – hearing his word and believing. Those good people who hear and believe Jesus will not be condemned.

Plucking one verse is never good exegesis

I just posted this above...

HOW is this nullifying the cross?
JESUS is saying this:


John 5:28-29 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
 
Z
Doing works for righteousness is written to those who take Jesus out of the equation all together. Not those who do works with Him.. As long as they have Jesus they aren't working for salvation.. Not directed to you just a general statement
The problem is, doing good works for the express purpose of keeping or gaining salvation, and making sure that those good works get you (general you) into heaven.


We do good works to show God's love to others. We also do them because it is commanded.

But NOT for the purpose of keeping salvation, or getting into heaven.