Not By Works

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Grace777x70

Grace777x70

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Nov 22, 2015
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Stunnedbygrace said:
I think you have spoken well. No one is able to see what you are saying though. I see how you are seeing and saying it. And I appreciate that you say it in love rather than malice and pride. You are hindered by the fact that you use a word that is a trigger for many. But you speak with love and care for us and that love is what matters.
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IMO - The area of contention is not really works per se - that is a smoke screen for the real issue - it's the belief that our loving Father throws His beloved children into hell for not doing good works.

This is the outcome of "doing good works to be saved or to keep being saved". This is an anti-Christ belief system.

They take passages that are descriptive of the life of Christ looks like when He is manifesting His life in and through us and then they make it a "work that needs to be done in order to be saved or to keep being saved." No matter how much "lip-service" or "mental assent" we give to being saved by grace through faith in Christ's work alone.

There are those that believe we are secure in Christ - that is the true believer - born from above - sealed with the Holy Spirit and then there are those that believe we are not - we need to save ourselves by what we do or don't do.

That is a works-righteousness belief system that actually nullifies the very grace of God that is in Christ from operating in our lives like it was meant to. We end up creating a religion of self-works.

Some believe that if we don't do good works - however this is defined by some is different because it changes depending on our denominational church teachings - that we are kicked out of Christ. That is complete foolishness and religious nonsense.

Good works are a fruit of His life in and through us as we are living by the spirit. Good works do not produce salvation - they are a by-product of His life that is in us.

The orange tree is still and orange tree even if it doesn't produce the "man seen" appearance of the actual fruit. Man look at the outward appearance - God looks on the heart.

Anyway - I am off for the day. Have a good one!
 
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Meggido

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dcontroversal said:
I cannot get past nor will I ever get past the verbiage used below......and is exactly why I believe in the eternal security of the believer...

a. Jesus begins and finishes our faith
b. Jesus will complete that good work he began in us
c. Jesus said he will NEVER leave us or forsake us
d. We are saved, justified, sealed and sanctified in Christ
e. We are saved to the uttermost
f. We are kept by his power, the power OF God
g. We are in the Father's hand
h. We are in the Son's hand
i. He said he would lose Nothing but raise it up the last day
j. He will leave the 99 to find and restore the one who has wandered
k. The prodigal was a son throughout the whole process

etc......Not to mention the words eternal, everlasting, sealed unto the day of redemption etc........
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perfectly summed up from your point of view.....now let the thread die....
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

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PHart said:
If you mean none of our works will earn us salvation you are correct.



If you mean none of our works will continue to earn us salvation you are correct again.



Wrong!

Christ will use our works to determine if you go to the left as a goat, or to the right as a sheep:
"34“Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ " (Matthew 25:34-36 NASB)

​

Are you able to understand how that's true, yet that not be a damnable works gospel?




That is one reason we do good works. But for the purpose of this thread, the reason we do good works is because we love God. That's why our works are able to used by Christ as the evidence of our faith and love for God and which will then be used to determine if we go to the left or to the right at the Judgment.

If a person can't prove his faith by being characterized as someone who loves God and loves people (the two greatest commands) then they will be found to be unbelievers (or ex-believers) and they will be sent to the left to be condemned in the fiery hell. Christ warned us, people. Get the faith that saves, and prove you have that salvation by working it out. That is how you will have surety and security in Christ. Mere words of confession do not give assurance of salvation. Work does.
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UnderGrace said:
How to live in Gift Righteousness….


They receive salvation by putting total faith in Christ for the forgiveness of their sins, but then they return to believing that the Lord still relates to them on the basis of their works, even after their salvation.


Colossians 2:6 says, “As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him.” That means if you were saved by putting faith in God’s grace alone, then you maintain that relationship in the same way. Some people sing “Just As I Am Without One Plea” when they are born again. They need to sing this song all the way through their Christian lives.


Failure to understand this truth is at the root of all guilt and condemnation. Satan’s only inroad into our lives is sin.

If we understand our right standing with God on the basis of what Jesus did for us, and not by our own actions, then Satan’s power to condemn is gone. Those who live with a feeling of unworthiness are not trusting in God’s righteousness but are looking to their own actions to obtain right standing with God. That will never work.

Andrew Womack
Whose Righteousness? - Andrew Wommack Ministries
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This is true but doesnt it seem like we all do this until the light bulb comes on in our understanding? And should be the reason we remain patient with those who oppose. I know I labored and was miserable until Truth came. And I was converted, and baptized in Holy Spirit. But, blinded by religion.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

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Nov 22, 2015
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stonesoffire said:
This is true but doesnt it seem like we all do this until the light bulb comes on in our understanding? And should be the reason we remain patient with those who oppose. I know I labored and was miserable until Truth came. And I was converted, and baptized in Holy Spirit. But, blinded by religion.
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I agree. The issue is always to do with "righteousness" Is it ours by what we do or don't do - as the law is based on? This is called "works-righteousness".

Or is complete reliance on Christ's obedience that brings faith righteousness?

The gospel is all about the "righteousness of God" revealed! For "in it" the righteousness of God is revealed. Rom. 1:16-17

We are saved by grace through faith in Christ alone.
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

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PHart said:
If you mean none of our works will earn us salvation you are correct.



If you mean none of our works will continue to earn us salvation you are correct again.



Wrong!

Christ will use our works to determine if you go to the left as a goat, or to the right as a sheep:
"34“Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ " (Matthew 25:34-36 NASB)

​

Are you able to understand how that's true, yet that not be a damnable works gospel?




That is one reason we do good works. But for the purpose of this thread, the reason we do good works is because we love God. That's why our works are able to used by Christ as the evidence of our faith and love for God and which will then be used to determine if we go to the left or to the right at the Judgment.

If a person can't prove his faith by being characterized as someone who loves God and loves people (the two greatest commands) then they will be found to be unbelievers (or ex-believers) and they will be sent to the left to be condemned in the fiery hell. Christ warned us, people. Get the faith that saves, and prove you have that salvation by working it out. That is how you will have surety and security in Christ. Mere words of confession do not give assurance of salvation. Work does.
Click to expand...
BillG said:
By this the world will know you are my disciples.
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Brothers, sisters, in unity Bill. There is the love among the disciples. I have had many unkind remarks made to me about Pentecostals. But, in the essentials, the gospel, the foundation we unite.

We cant unite with anyone preaching another way to please Father, or we are denying Him.

Which would you prefer? Loving one opposing changes nothing.

If we think this is harsh thinking, we need to check our first love. I've had to do this after seeing how my emotions lead me astray.
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

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Nov 12, 2015
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Grace777x70 said:

IMO - The area of contention is not really works per se - that is a smoke screen for the real issue - it's the belief that our loving Father throws His beloved children into hell for not doing good works.
Click to expand...
I don't think that's how phart sees it by all I've heard him say...
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

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PHart said:
If you mean none of our works will earn us salvation you are correct.



If you mean none of our works will continue to earn us salvation you are correct again.



Wrong!

Christ will use our works to determine if you go to the left as a goat, or to the right as a sheep:
"34“Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35‘For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ " (Matthew 25:34-36 NASB)

​

Are you able to understand how that's true, yet that not be a damnable works gospel?




That is one reason we do good works. But for the purpose of this thread, the reason we do good works is because we love God. That's why our works are able to used by Christ as the evidence of our faith and love for God and which will then be used to determine if we go to the left or to the right at the Judgment.

If a person can't prove his faith by being characterized as someone who loves God and loves people (the two greatest commands) then they will be found to be unbelievers (or ex-believers) and they will be sent to the left to be condemned in the fiery hell. Christ warned us, people. Get the faith that saves, and prove you have that salvation by working it out. That is how you will have surety and security in Christ. Mere words of confession do not give assurance of salvation. Work does.
Click to expand...
Meggido said:
perfectly summed up from your point of view.....now let the thread die....
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why now Meggido? I've heard people say they have learned from it, and I have too. I always learn from grace 7, and EG, preacher, and Dcon have all contributed Truth that solidifies faith.

Not that they are the only ones, Just are those you oppose most.

And ive learned from you too.
 
AbigailZeke

AbigailZeke

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#30,628
Grace777x70 said:
I agree. The issue is always to do with "righteousness" Is it ours by what we do or don't do - as the law is based on? This is called "works-righteousness".

Or is complete reliance on Christ's obedience that brings faith righteousness?

The gospel is all about the "righteousness of God" revealed! For "in it" the righteousness of God is revealed. Rom. 1:16-17

We are saved by grace through faith in Christ alone.
Click to expand...
It's very clear in the scriptures.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. – Romans 10:4
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

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Now my iPad has latched onto pharts post and including it with each new post I do.

just explaining. Weird things happen with ipads.
 
blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

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And because they were warned multiple times and didn't listen, so they got banned. Fran was warned and did not listen..


eternally-gratefull said:
It does not matter if people wish someone gets banned or not, if that could ban people I am sure I would have been banned a year ago,

people are banned because cause they break the rules.
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BillG

BillG

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Feb 15, 2017
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stonesoffire said:
Brothers, sisters, in unity Bill. There is the love among the disciples. I have had many unkind remarks made to me about Pentecostals. But, in the essentials, the gospel, the foundation we unite.

We cant unite with anyone preaching another way to please Father, or we are denying Him.

Which would you prefer? Loving one opposing changes nothing.

If we think this is harsh thinking, we need to check our first love. I've had to do this after seeing how my emotions lead me astray.
Click to expand...
Love manifests itself in other ways than being lovey dovey.

It does not manifest itself in telling people they are going to hell because of doctrinal disagreements (that are fundamental to saving faith) it doesn't character assassination and humiliation and so on.
 
S

Stunnedbygrace

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Nov 12, 2015
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BillG said:
Love manifests itself in other ways than being lovey dovey.

It does not manifest itself in telling people they are going to hell because of doctrinal disagreements (that are fundamental to saving faith) it doesn't character assassination and humiliation and so on.
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I don't think I've ever heard phart say any of that...
 
E

eternally-gratefull

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stonesoffire said:
why now Meggido? I've heard people say they have learned from it, and I have too. I always learn from grace 7, and EG, preacher, and Dcon have all contributed Truth that solidifies faith.

Not that they are the only ones, Just are those you oppose most.

And ive learned from you too.
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some peopl just want to make waves, and can not take it when people disagree with them,

it it is better to just let bygone be bygone,

as oncefallen said, if this thread is closed, another like it will open, and they will do the same in that thread.
 
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