Not By Works
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You are welcome.
I believe that too. When "sin" rises up from our flesh which manifests in thoughts and desires - we can simply say - "That's not me - I am the righteousness of God in Christ - I am a new creation - I have the love of God in me and that is not the real me that is in Christ."
Jesus and what He has already done is my source for life. We are one spirit together. 1 Cor. 6:17
The renewing of the mind of the things of Christ is critical to walking by the spirit so that we don't do the desires of the flesh and be deceived by the deceitfulness of sin that is in the flesh's way of doing things to find life and purpose - rather than obtaining this from the life of God which is ours in Christ.
I instantly "locate" myself in my spirit and say to my Father - "I belong to you. Jesus is my life and righteousness." I sometimes say "Grace Father! " - which is my way of relating to the Lord that I need His grace - not only to know I am not condemned which is acceptance grace which is not based on what I do or don't do but also for the empowering grace to walk in who I am in Christ.
To manifest outwardly what already is in my new creation in Christ.
The "influence of sin" to condemn us because these thoughts come to our minds need to be put in their proper place - they are not from the real us nor from God. Sometimes now I simply laugh at them and ignore them entirely.
Sometimes when under stress - this "influence of sin" tries to rear it's ugly face again to try to get us to "obtain things from our own effort or desires and not to rely on the Lord Himself to do what He said He would do. "
This is known as a "more opportune time". We are not ignorant of the schemes and devices of our enemy and we have the wisdom of God because we are in Christ.
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E
I don't think abiding means being good enough. I think abiding means continuing in and growing in trust. It was because I finally saw that I was never going to be good enough but would always fail at some point, like when someone stepped on my toes or cut me off in traffic or did or said something selfish to me and I started screaming like a banshee about how they needed to apologize, that I DID begin to trust Him (abide more fully) to make me truly good.
I still believe abiding is necessary, but I have seen that He has to see even to that for me too.
In short, I still believe continuing and growing in my trust (abiding) is necessary. That is why He sees to it and brings me to the struggle to trust more fully. I used to think I was the one seeing to it.
Even last week, I thought that.
I still believe abiding is necessary, but I have seen that He has to see even to that for me too.
In short, I still believe continuing and growing in my trust (abiding) is necessary. That is why He sees to it and brings me to the struggle to trust more fully. I used to think I was the one seeing to it.
Even last week, I thought that.
Ok. Agree here, if we want to grow and be useful to Jesus, and work out what he has placed in us, we must abide, we can not grow unless we allow God to work in us,
but again, what does this have to do with being cut off (losing salvation)
E
Yes, you could be right. My thoughts though are that for this person to recognize his sin, the Spirit has already moved on him with God's grace and he sees his condition as a sinner and is responding in faith.
The conviction comes before hand so as the person speaks the way the tax collector did can only do it in the new birth. What I'm thinking is that he's born of the spirit or he wouldn't be convicted of his sins and confess he's a sinner.
I don't want to split hairs here, but it's interesting to think about the process of the new birth and how it all comes together.
the way i see it is through Gods creation (rom 1) through a persons heart (the law inside us) through people like you and me, through many different ways, God draws a person
it starts with conviction, all he has to do is get a person to admit he or she is not righteous,
then he has to to get them to see that because they are guilty. They are condemned
then he has to get him to understand since he is condemned, he is hopeless, bankrupt, left wanting, because nothing he can do to rectify his situation and save himself
then he has to get him to see the cross, and what it means, what God did, and what it means
Once he sees this, all has to do is convince the person that God is offering him eternal life, do you trust him and will you recieve it, or will you not,
People will respond in different ways, but only those who like Thats collector come to God in humility and faith are born again,
E
1 john says he who sins has never seen God or known God, these people were never saved, they may "believe" but they never had faith because they never repented, the loved the world too much,
what happens to them? When they see God, God will say welcome my son, I wanted to give you such a great life, a life you would have loved, but you fell, although all you have left is wood hay and straw, I promised if you placed your faith in me I would give you eternal life, I did that when you placed your faith in me, I am sorry you did not grow in trust, but fell like you did, but I must keep my promise, because I am faithful.
Or, for the one who leaves, and is not against Christ, john again said they were never of us, if here were of us they never would have left.
or, like above, he never knew god, so hcontinued in sin after re taking a break for awhile and trying to play God, but since his faith was not in God (he believes but that was it) like a dog, he returned to his vomit because he was never made into a new creation.
So you will see see why I will never judge a person based on what I see, only God knows their heart,
what happens to them? When they see God, God will say welcome my son, I wanted to give you such a great life, a life you would have loved, but you fell, although all you have left is wood hay and straw, I promised if you placed your faith in me I would give you eternal life, I did that when you placed your faith in me, I am sorry you did not grow in trust, but fell like you did, but I must keep my promise, because I am faithful.
Or, for the one who leaves, and is not against Christ, john again said they were never of us, if here were of us they never would have left.
or, like above, he never knew god, so hcontinued in sin after re taking a break for awhile and trying to play God, but since his faith was not in God (he believes but that was it) like a dog, he returned to his vomit because he was never made into a new creation.
So you will see see why I will never judge a person based on what I see, only God knows their heart,
You are welcome......
This truth of Christ's work and that we are circumcised from our body of flesh by the circumcision of Christ is paramount in growing up in Him and seeing the true new creation which has been created in righteousness and holiness.
This is another truth about that we are safe in the Lord because we are in Christ - even if our minds get screwed up from wrong belief. True faith is of the heart and not the head when we hear the gospel message of Christ. Rom. 10:9-10.
Once we are circumcised - we cannot go back to being uncircumcised. This truth is reality in the natural as the old skin dies and becomes no more ( just like the old man did on the cross with Jesus ) - it is true for us in Christ too. The new man in Christ is righteousness because we are one spirit with the Lord. 1 Cor. 6:17
Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
Here is a great teaching that speaks to this subject of "Why do we still sin?" - if interested.
[video=youtube;Bi-oq5qBkWA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi-oq5qBkWA[/video]
.. This truth of Christ's work and that we are circumcised from our body of flesh by the circumcision of Christ is paramount in growing up in Him and seeing the true new creation which has been created in righteousness and holiness.
This is another truth about that we are safe in the Lord because we are in Christ - even if our minds get screwed up from wrong belief. True faith is of the heart and not the head when we hear the gospel message of Christ. Rom. 10:9-10.
Once we are circumcised - we cannot go back to being uncircumcised. This truth is reality in the natural as the old skin dies and becomes no more ( just like the old man did on the cross with Jesus ) - it is true for us in Christ too. The new man in Christ is righteousness because we are one spirit with the Lord. 1 Cor. 6:17
Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
Here is a great teaching that speaks to this subject of "Why do we still sin?" - if interested.
[video=youtube;Bi-oq5qBkWA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi-oq5qBkWA[/video]
...Although the Lord is working in me , last night i had four glasses of red wine and ended up pouring the left over down the toilet, that would not be something i would of done before so i know the work of the Lord is having a great effect...Ii woke this morning and felt like i had let Him down so badly, i felt really selfish, i did not even put Scripture to my temptation last night, i just went out and bought it...I have given thanks to our Almighty God for His Mercy, kindness and for holding me and not letting me fall into a pit, so this video you have posted i hope it will bring me some understanding about the effects of sinning...I did get some comfort from reading Paul about how we sin but do not want to, it is the sin but not him...Last night it was me, i have no excuse, now i have to get through this day and not listen to the evil one who condemns me...xox...
I was once in a discussion with a Roman Catholic who claims that the Roman Catholic church does not teach salvation by works (just because they don't teach we are saved by perfectly obeying the law), but then afterwards, he said this below:
We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith".
Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES:
Being baptized, Eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, Works of mercy and charity, Obeying his commandments.
Of course that is absolutely false! What this Roman Catholic is saying is that faith "is" baptism, faith "is" multiple acts of obedience, faith "is" works. It's no wonder that people teach salvation by works when they basically define faith as works.
We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith".
Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES:
Being baptized, Eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, Works of mercy and charity, Obeying his commandments.
Of course that is absolutely false! What this Roman Catholic is saying is that faith "is" baptism, faith "is" multiple acts of obedience, faith "is" works. It's no wonder that people teach salvation by works when they basically define faith as works.
Meggido's post on my screen is 30622.
Your's is 30858
You purposely went back over 200 posts to pick an argument?!?
After all that CRYIN' to say we need to settle down?!?
You're the Op, & you can't let it go!
OVER TWO HUNDRED POSTS!!!
EVERY ONE ELSE ALREADY FORGOT IT..... BUT NOT YOU.
You had to drag it back up to find another member to get banned.
It's not the first time you've done it, either.
I knew you couldn't stop. You don't have any intention to.
Your's is 30858
You purposely went back over 200 posts to pick an argument?!?
After all that CRYIN' to say we need to settle down?!?
You're the Op, & you can't let it go!
OVER TWO HUNDRED POSTS!!!
EVERY ONE ELSE ALREADY FORGOT IT..... BUT NOT YOU.
You had to drag it back up to find another member to get banned.
It's not the first time you've done it, either.
I knew you couldn't stop. You don't have any intention to.
Luke 11
27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.
28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.
31 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
32 The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
33 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light.
34 The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.
35 Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness.
36 If thy whole body therefore be full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light.
27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.
28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.
31 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
32 The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
33 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light.
34 The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.
35 Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness.
36 If thy whole body therefore be full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light.
Hi EG...Thank you for explaining that, i understand now...I had a slight fear in my mind that has been there a while...I hate it when a thought gets stuck in the mind, we can read something our self and not see, only when someone else points it out in another way that it breaks the thought, hence the reasoning which was driving me mad.....xox...
..xox...
U
To say we have a choice is to misunderstand the divine legality of being justified
“Justified”
is a judicial term that describes the status of a person whom the judge has declared “not guilty”!
The Judge of the universe has spoken on behalf of the believer and the matter is settled. The eternal verdict is “not guilty”.
(Dr. T. Cucuzza)
The person does not have control over the judge’s decree and the judge cannot declare someone guilty of a debt if ALL the debt is paid and the person has received the gift of "PAID IN FULL"
"What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own
Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for
us" (Romans 8:31-34).
“Justified”
is a judicial term that describes the status of a person whom the judge has declared “not guilty”!
The Judge of the universe has spoken on behalf of the believer and the matter is settled. The eternal verdict is “not guilty”.
(Dr. T. Cucuzza)
The person does not have control over the judge’s decree and the judge cannot declare someone guilty of a debt if ALL the debt is paid and the person has received the gift of "PAID IN FULL"
"What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own
Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for
us" (Romans 8:31-34).
I think they all describes agape (love). Agape doesn't rely on emotional or good feelings like fondness or love, but instead it chooses to act out of self-sacrifice to serve others with humility.
Agape love is the ultimate. It's God's love as we look at Jesus sacrificing Himself on our behalf to serve us with humility.....He being God, He humbled Himself to the form or being a servant to the point of death of a cross so that we would be reunited to our Heavenly Father. There's no great love.
I remember an elderly man once saying to a group of younger Christians that we really don't fathom the depths of God's love for us. And the more I grow in knowledge and truth, the more I believe and understand what that man said 40 years ago when I was a baby Christian was spot on.
I really believe the more we grow in understanding His love and experiencing His love, the kinder and more gentle we'll be with one another here in this forum.
Agape is the highest kind of love, it's the noblest type of devotion.....a conscious choice - and it's intentional.
This agape love is.........
patient
kind
is not jealous
does not brag
not arrogant
does not act unbecomingly
it does not seek its own
is not provoked
does not take into account a wrong suffered
does not rejoice in unrighteousness
but rejoices with the truth
bears all things
believes all things
hopes all things
endures all things
agape never fails
......love covers over a multitude of sins.
I don't really know if they escalate from moral excellence all the way to the last one which is love. What do you think?
As I read this section, Peter is telling us to make haste, to supply these things. Was he intending that we add them in order?
I haven't gotten that far in the study, so maybe you can help me here.
Reading your post however immediately bought me to one of my favorite passages in scripture.
Ephesians 3:14-19
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
This always fills me. Allows me to fully focus on His love.
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[TD="class: passage-col col-xs-12 first last"]James 2King James Version (KJV)
2 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
We are judged according to the Royal law...
i had a dream last night that reminded me how we are not to esteem the rich over the poor or favour a person by the way they look and dress.. etc.. it was very humbling... to be kept close to heart.
You can not love GOD yet reject His people in need... for everything is GOD's and should be shared as though...
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[TD="class: passage-col col-xs-12 first last"]James 2King James Version (KJV)
2 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
We are judged according to the Royal law...
i had a dream last night that reminded me how we are not to esteem the rich over the poor or favour a person by the way they look and dress.. etc.. it was very humbling... to be kept close to heart.
You can not love GOD yet reject His people in need... for everything is GOD's and should be shared as though...
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