Not By Works

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Dec 12, 2013
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People, works do not save you. Works do not get you forgiven. AND works do not get you into heaven. Simple concept to understand. Even a two-year old gets it. A forum full of adults does not.. :rolleyes:

LOL
There are some that get it......Plenteous in number will be the group that finds out too late......!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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You are using the Sermon on the Mount for a purpose it was not intended for.
Workers for, sinless perfectionists and those who believe one can lose salvation always misuse the bible to support something that is not there....!
 
Feb 24, 2015
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You are using the Sermon on the Mount for a purpose it was not intended for.
Ok guys, if the sermon on the mount is only to discourage people, why is it so complete
and so extensive? And why is it so true and real, putting achievable goals in front of
everyone if you have a pure heart and a loving spirit.

Maybe it is too hard because many have never believed God for a pure heart and a loving
spirit and only ever tried to follow in their own abilities and with their own understanding
which will always fail. They now project this failure on to the gospel and all believers,
and they alone define what is reality in Christ, and who are the real beleivers and who is
the dreadful slime who must be exposed..... What a sad day for people who have condemnation
while condemning believers over their own faith......what a massive con trick has the enemy
pulled on them, eating their own, while managing to make them feel self justified in their own
sin..... ironic
 
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The sermon on the Mount covers our manner of life, characteristics of a servant of the Lord and has nothing to do with a works based false salvation...!
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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IF THE WORD OF GOD IS FLAWLESS AND WE’RE NOT TO ADD TO IT NOR TAKE AWAY(OMIT) FROM IT, WHY DO SOME PEOPLE CLAIMING TO BE CHRISTIANS DISOBEY GOD AND TEACH FOR DOCTRINE THINGS THAT CANNOT BE FOUND ANYWHERE IN THE BIBLE, WHO LOVES TO BOAST OF THEIR FALSELY CALLED KNOWLEDGE, WHO LOVE TO GRUMBLE AND FIND FAULT ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE’S WORKS AND WORDS BUT BY THEIR WORKS THEY DENY GOD.

THEY SAY THAT WHEN SOMEONE QUOTE SCRIPTURES IN REPLY TO THEIR POSTS, IT DOESN’T HAVE ANY BEARING ON THIS THREAD. AND THEY LOVE TO MAKE IT APPEAR THAT WHAT IS PLAINLY EXPRESSED IN THE SCRIPTURES HAVE A DIFFERENT MEANING THAT SUITS THEIR ARGUMENT. THEY ARE ALWAYS IN CONTEXT AND THOSE WHO HAVE NOT EVEN WRITTEN HIS OWN THOUGHT BUT PURELY SCRIPTURES ARE STILL OUT OF CONTEXT.

IF ONE WILL CHOOSE TO KEEP SILENT SO AS NOT TO GRIEVE THE SPIRIT-- BECAUSE OF THE DIVISION BEING CREATED BY THE HYPOCRISY AND HIGH-MINDEDNESS OF THOSE CLAIMING TO BE A BROTHER BUT INSULTS AND SPEAKS WORDS TO UNDERMINE A BELIEVER, --- THEY REJOICE AS IF THEY WERE BETTER THAN THEM.

THESE PEOPLE NEED TO LOOK IN THE MIRROR BEFORE JUDGING OTHERS FOR THE MEASURE THEY USE WILL BE USED UNTO THEM.

2 Samuel 22:31 “As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the Lord is flawless. He is a shield for all who take refuge in him.

Mark 7:6-7 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’

Titus 1:15-16 To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.

Jude 1:16 These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage.

Philippians 2:3-8 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death— even death on a cross!

Colossians 3:12-17 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

1 Timothy 6:20-21 Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge, which some have professed and in so doing have wandered from the faith. Grace be with you.
 
R

RuggeroA

Guest
There are some that get it......Plenteous in number will be the group that finds out too late......!
When will you ever back what you claim up with scripture ? You are blind to the truth

James 2:26 “Indeed, just as the body without spirit* isdead,+ so also faith without works is dead.”

[FONT=&quot]James.2:14 “What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has notworks? Can his faith save him? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead,so faith apart from [/FONT]worksis dead"


Romans 10:10 “For with the heart one exercises faith forrighteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration+ for salvation”
Indeed, just as the body without spirit* is dead,+[FONT=&quot][/FONT] so also faith without works is dead.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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When will you ever back what you claim up with scripture ? You are blind to the truth

James 2:26 “Indeed, just as the body without spirit* isdead,+ so also faith without works is dead.”

James.2:14 “What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has notworks? Can his faith save him? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead,so faith apart from worksis dead"


Romans 10:10 “For with the heart one exercises faith forrighteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration+ for salvation”
Indeed, just as the body without spirit* is dead,+ so also faith without works is dead.

Blah blah blah....Works do not save, never have,, never will.....as many have pointed out JAMES speaks to a MAN being able to see your faith..end of story

PAUL states clearly that a man is JUSTIFIED before GOD by faith VOID of works.....

Wake up to the truth....faith PLUS works FOR SALVATION is a false GOSPEL according to GALATIANS.....if you want to boast of your works and ADD to the finished work of CHRIST...have a ball....

end of story!
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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When will you ever back what you claim up with scripture ? You are blind to the truth

James 2:26 “Indeed, just as the body without spirit* isdead,+ so also faith without works is dead.”
In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not the works; rather, life in faith is the source of the works (Ephesians 2:5-10). Works salvationists have this backwards.

James.2:14 “What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has notworks? Can his faith save him? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead,so faith apart from worksis dead"
In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works. This is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith. James gives us the test for genuine faith: like the faith of Abraham, it results in works. So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

Romans 10:10 “For with the heart one exercises faith forrighteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration+ for salvation”
Indeed, just as the body without spirit* is dead,+ so also faith without works is dead.
Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (together) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9 to verse 10) - that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Amen mailmandan... I have posted this before but for the new readers I will post it again so that they can be assured of their salvation and that Christ never leaves them nor forsakes them.

True faith will have a corresponding action of some kind.

Let's look at what James says about faith & it's corresponding "work" in relation to having eternal life now and forever because we heard the message of Christ and believed on Him - then we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. Eph. 1:13

It is very interesting that in James's examples of faith "being made alive" by a work or a corresponding action. Both Rahab and Abraham each did a one time corresponding action to demonstrate their faith.

Abraham believed God and offered up Isaac on the alter. Rahab received the spies.

Both one time events in their life - God calls this faith in action.

James 2:20-25 (NASB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

[SUP]21 [/SUP] Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?

[SUP]22[/SUP]You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;

[SUP]23 [/SUP] and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.

[SUP]24 [/SUP] You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

[SUP]25 [/SUP] In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?

Paul and James completely go together and do not cancel each other out nor contradict the basic truth of believing in Christ brings eternal life when we hear the true message of Christ's work and that we have the forgiveness of sins.


We do the very same thing when we hear the message of Christ and we believe and then God seals us with the Holy Spirit. This is our faith
with a corresponding action or a "work".

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth,
the gospel of your salvationhaving also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Jesus said to do the work of God was to believe in the Son.

Romans 10:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But what does it say? "
THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

[SUP]9 [/SUP]
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

[SUP]10[/SUP]for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

This is faith with corresponding action - or a work. This is how we are saved by grace through faith just like Paul said.

James talk about "faith" and "works" is in relation to helping out our fellow man that is in need.

 
Dec 12, 2013
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In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not the works; rather, life in faith is the source of the works (Ephesians 2:5-10). Works salvationists have this backwards.

[/FONT]In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works. This is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith. James gives us the test for genuine faith: like the faith of Abraham, it results in works. So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (together) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9 to verse 10) - that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.
AMEN brother.......the simplicity found in Christ.....belief = salvation <---so simple even a child can understand it!
 
Nov 22, 2015
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An interesting fact about Abraham being declared righteous by God Himself is that he was declared to be righteous by God because Abraham "believed God " - 15 years before he "offered up Isaac".

His faith was completed as a result of already being declared righteous by God. Knowing the truth about what God says about us releases true faith to grow and be manifested.

There is a false way of trying to create works in order to create and maintain righteousness. This is eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

True righteousness which comes only from God's work in Christ always comes when we believe what God says is true. There are "fruits of righteousness" as James talks about which shows up in helping our fellow man in need but they do not create righteousness.

Being righteous in Christ comes first because of His work on the cross and resurrection. Getting this backwards creates a religion of self-righteousness and actually denies the work of Christ Himself.

Preach and teach the good news that Christ alone is our righteousness and then the fruit of His life will be manifested in "deeds of righteousness" as He bears His fruit in and through us to a hurt and dying world that needs to see the love and grace that our loving Father has for them.

We will see corresponding action or works that glorify God.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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An interesting fact about Abraham being declared righteous by God Himself is that he was declared to be righteous by God because Abraham "believed God " - 15 years before he "offered up Isaac".

His faith was completed as a result of already being declared righteous by God. Knowing the truth about what God says about us releases true faith to grow and be manifested.
Amen! In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. No! The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save his soul, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works, "shown to be righteous."

In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on the merits of his works, as works salvationists teach. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Amen! In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. No! The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save his soul, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works, "shown to be righteous."

In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on the merits of his works, as works salvationists teach. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.
You know...another thing that gets rejected and missed is the simple fact that a tree is a tree from the moment it sprouts....and it takes years of growth and maturity before said tree produces...sometimes a single piece of fruit.........an apple tree is an apple tree fro the moment it sprouts from a seed....just like spiritual birth of an incorruptible seed.....
It blows my mind how many reject these simple, profound truths and application of the word of God when it comes to faith.....
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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You know...another thing that gets rejected and missed is the simple fact that a tree is a tree from the moment it sprouts....and it takes years of growth and maturity before said tree produces...sometimes a single piece of fruit.........an apple tree is an apple tree fro the moment it sprouts from a seed....just like spiritual birth of an incorruptible seed.....
It blows my mind how many reject these simple, profound truths and application of the word of God when it comes to faith.....
Amen! Works salvationists read "faith without works is dead" and assume this means faith is dead UNTIL it produces works (as if works are the source of life in faith). That's like saying a tree is dead UNTIL it produces fruit. A dead faith does not produce works in order to become a living faith but BECAUSE it's a living faith; just as a dead tree does not produce fruit in order to become a living tree but BECAUSE it's a living tree. Works salvationists have the tail wagging the dog. The cart before the horse.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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When will you ever back what you claim up with scripture ? You are blind to the truth

James 2:26 “Indeed, just as the body without spirit* isdead,+ so also faith without works is dead.”

James.2:14 “What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has notworks? Can his faith save him? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead,so faith apart from worksis dead"


Romans 10:10 “For with the heart one exercises faith forrighteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration+ for salvation”
Indeed, just as the body without spirit* is dead,+ so also faith without works is dead.

James clearly states that justification is by faith.

in v23 he quotes

James 2:23
And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.


The justification by works of which James is speaking is a different type of justification.
This type of justification is before other people. In other words, James is using the word justified to mean “proved.”
We prove to others our genuine faith in Christ through our works. But the justification that comes through faith is before God, and we do not “prove” ourselves to Him; instead, God declares us righteous through our association with Christ, the One who died for our sins.
Faith and works should be together; there is a close relationship between the two. Faith produces works; and works makes faith perfect, meaning “mature” or “complete.”

He quotes v22 so that v21 would not be misunderstood.




Abraham was not justified by his actions alone; instead, his faith and his actions worked together.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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James clearly states that justification is by faith.

in v23 he quotes

James 2:23
And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.


The justification by works of which James is speaking is a different type of justification.
This type of justification is before other people. In other words, James is using the word justified to mean “proved.”
We prove to others our genuine faith in Christ through our works. But the justification that comes through faith is before God, and we do not “prove” ourselves to Him; instead, God declares us righteous through our association with Christ, the One who died for our sins.
Faith and works should be together; there is a close relationship between the two. Faith produces works; and works makes faith perfect, meaning “mature” or “complete.”

He quotes v22 so that v21 would not be misunderstood.




Abraham was not justified by his actions alone; instead, his faith and his actions worked together.
Amen...........the key to the James quote is always swept under the rug by the "cake takers" <--workers for

SHOW ME your faith<---the key......
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Amen...........the key to the James quote is always swept under the rug by the "cake takers" <--workers for

SHOW ME your faith<---the key......
Amen! James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).
 
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The Bible's version -->Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he saved us.

The Cake Taker's version-->Only by our works of righteousness which we have done, and not according to his mercy has he saved us as we saved ourselves.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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It is true that works have nothing to do with our salvation. It is by faith alone. Faith in Christs righteousness.
BUT can you have faith and not have works, is it possible to have faith in Jesus and have a life void of good works? If you have Jesus you have a new heart free from sin.

Eph_2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Mat_7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Works of iniquity = not being saved.
1Co_6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Gal_5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

True faith = good works, so no good works = no true faith.
Jas_2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


Rev_20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev_20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.


Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Faith and works are inseparable in that if you are saved by faith you will live a life of works that reflects that faith.