Not By Works

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loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
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None of this teaches a works based salvation as you push, maybe you should try context.....

I push nothing but share the New Testament. It teaches plenty to those willing to receive. I believe the Messiah over you always and forever.

You may not see, hear or perceive but by the Power of GOD many love the Truth and receive it willingly.


But may it be that one day soon you start believing.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
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Matthew 5


4 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.





Always read in full.

May we hear and keep always and forever.


 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,685
29,025
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I kind of see God grasping our arm and we are grasping the Lord's righteous right arm. Those who let go in my opinion are those who were one of the 3 bad soils that only last for a period of time.

They don't endure and don't persevere because they aren't truly born of the Spirit or they'd have the power to continue on in the faith. They have a dead faith.
Exactly :) They were not saved to begin with...
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,799
1,181
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Australia
Do we become righteous because Jesus give us His righteousness or are we seen as righteous because Jesus is our advocate before the Father?

Is Justification imparted or imputed?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,685
29,025
113
Do we become righteous because Jesus give us His righteousness or
are we seen as righteous because Jesus is our advocate before the Father?
Jesus is our advocate before the Father because we have put on His righteousness :)
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,799
1,181
113
Australia
Jesus is our advocate before the Father because we have put on His righteousness :)
If we have put on Christ's righteousness, Jesus would not need to stand between us and God because we would be Perfectly righteous.
 

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
2,719
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Scripture confirms the heart condition of those who fall away, in that they are not saved. Specifically, Jude confirms that apostates are those who don't have the Spirit.

The world's definition of apostates is different to the biblical definition, which is why some have this wrong belief that apostates were once believers. But Jude confirms apostates never had the Holy Spirit, so right there is confirmation of the truth. If you read the entire chapter it says much about non believers.

How can a non-believer fall away from something they never believed in the first place?

What is next the arm twisting to try to convince dear readers here that falling away in the Bible does not really mean falling away in the way the Bible says it means...

There are a mix of wheat and tares in the churches.

Connection to this scripture...

1 John 2:19-21: "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. But you (believers) have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth"

Why would you state the church or the kingdom of heaven is the field, when Jesus said the world was the field?
I never said this. I'm confused as to why you assumed I did? I include our dialogue above.

Obviously the world is made up of believers and non believers... wheat and tares.

BUT we were specifically discussing the falling away (highlighted in red). That is the topic. I was saying that there are tares that exist within the church buildings. A mix of believers and non believers in them. Not all are believers as some might wrongfully assume.

The ones that fall away are the tares who were never saved to begin with. The book of Jude confirms this also, as well as the scripture above.

Maybe this is why some believe that the apostates are believers?..... because they don't believe there are any tares within the church buildings, so they assume it's believers that fall away. The scriptures say otherwise.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
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With the right view of repentance you can see repentance = Kingdom.

Repent means to turn toward/change your mind.
Kingdom is following/agreeing with the King.

Jesus is saying stop being lead astray on your own and turn toward the true King.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
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I believe the 4 soils parable is about more than salvation, but about many words of the Lord placed in our heart. Some we receive deep and they transform us. Others the enemy comes and snatches them away.

I remember a conversation I had with a believer years back. He was a great person. Very kind. And when I talked to him, he struggled with believing God loved him. I showed him in the Scripture, but it just didn't click in his heart. I prayed for Holy Spirit to bring it to life to him. Later I heard he had a real encounter with God's love and his whole life changed. He joyfully got involved with doing missionary work, etc for the Kingdom of God.

Scripture said he was loved and its in their often, but there's a difference between what affects our mind and what has space to come into our heart. His heart needed to be made soft by Holy Spirit so the words of God could take root and create fruit.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
If we have put on Christ's righteousness, Jesus would not need to stand between us and God because we would be Perfectly righteous.
To go deeper: If we have put on Christ's righteousness, He doesn't need to stand between us and God because we are in Him.
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
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The parable of the sower is not about salvation as many have been taught... The parable is about the heart conditions of believers...I will also be bold and state it is beautiful picture of continued repentance...
Hmm...I think I'd have to hear more about how you think some of the soils are talking about repentance to understand your thinking on that. One of the soils does speak of repentance to me though...
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
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823
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:D i read that too!

there is good soil, and bad soil. probably many ways for soil to be poor! not only that, the soil may be too rocky! and even in good, loose, deep soil, there are things like weeds and other plants that can quickly grow up and choke out a seedling.
:eek:

& you know what they need water and light too! i read in another place how even with good sowing and watering, it's God that gives the increase. probably this is most important, and all proper horticulture is wise.
Some other verses come to me.
Plow up the hard ground of your heart.
And,
If you put your hand to the plow and turn back you are not fit for the kingdom of heave.
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
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Faith is letting go of and surrender of everything and trust is knowing he will catch you...it is not some easy believing thing or his own faith...many have faith very few have trust....I better be careful now, because this is where making him "Lord" and Savior rubber meets the road...

Many like a Savior but few want a Lord...

Luke 7.11-17
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Soon afterwards He went to a city called Nain; and His disciples were going along with Him, accompanied by a large crowd. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Now as He approached the gate of the city, a dead man was being carried out, the only son of his mother, and she was a widow; and a sizeable crowd from the city was with her. [SUP]13 [/SUP]When the Lord saw her, He felt compassion for her, and said to her, “Do not weep.” [SUP]14 [/SUP]And He came up and touched the coffin; and the bearers came to a halt. And He said, “Young man, I say to you, arise!” [SUP]15 [/SUP]The dead man sat up and began to speak. And Jesus gave him back to his mother. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Fear gripped them all, and they began glorifying God, saying, “A great prophet has arisen among us!” and, “God has visited His people!” [SUP]17 [/SUP]This report concerning Him went out all over Judea and in all the surrounding district.

A lot of people want Jesus to raise them from the dead, but they do not want him to be Lord enough to reach up and touch their coffin......

wait for it....it will hit you...
I think I might understand you here.
I personally cannot divide faith and trust. They are the same thing to me. I was that "some people" you describe. I had to grow a little bit before I trusted Him more.

I was really big on saying things like...yes, Lord, but that isn't how the world works, and yes, Lord, I trust you will feed and clothe me and make sure a roof is over my head but not storing up money is unwise because what about all of the people who belong to you who are starving all over the world? Do you know what He said to me? He said, I have overlooked one of those who I said I would not overlook? Please give me their names immediately if you know them and I will correct my mistake.

That'll shut your mouth real quick...
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
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Hi EG...His prize is to be in heaven, face to face with our Lord Jesus Christ...To be in the presence of God and all heavenly things, and to hear those beautiful words " Well done my good and faithful servant " :) ...xox...
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
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I base my opinion, notice thecword opinion, on my own life. I grew up in the church, heard the gospel. Went forward on altar calls in youth camp, but those different soils describe my life up until my twenties when I heard the Lord ask me which way I will go. No church, in a car on the way to the hospital. My little 21/2 son had died and I was broken. That was my conversion. Good ground but so grieved. I needed Him. And He wanted me.

i don't tell this too many times. Just thought I should tonight.
He knows when each person is ready for love. And what you said earlier about Him working in our life to bring us to Him, sometimes even many years before we come to Him, is so true. I looked back on my life before Him and saw places where He was working, arranging circumstances to bring me to Him. :)

I looked down and saw you kicking around in your blood and I saw that no one cared about you or covered or cleaned you. I saw you were ready for love and I said, live! Live!
(My paraphrase of what could very well be a few different verses).
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
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So sorry to hear that Stones. I'm crying with you for your loss! :( That must have been the most difficult time of your life. *Hugs*

Well here's how I think you fit into the parable. God knows even before we're born who is good soil and who isn't. I had some spiritual experiences before I actually was born again. I think that's pretty normal for everyone. I think many have a spiritual revelation at times in their life and it's much later that faith becomes real and they're born of the Spirit. I can remember back having some experiences, but I never responded because I never really knew what to do with God's wooing me at the time. But, I've always been good soil. Anyone truly born of the Spirit is the good soil.

All the other soils described are bad soil and will not have a true genuine faith. That's what I've been taught and it's what I see when I compare scriptures with others.


I just think God was showing us in the parable why some stick around for a short time or even months or years, but when struggles come upon them, they blame God and begin to hate Him. It's because they didn't have good soil.
If you think about it DRose, aren't we all bad soil until conversion? All have sinned and come short of His glory. We all are tainted by the fall, born in Adam and separated from God.

He draws us and I do believe in predestination because He knows the end from the beginning of each of our lives. We are born in time, not knowing the future. He is outside of time and of eternity. He knows His own. And goes after us.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
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He knows when each person is ready for love. And what you said earlier about Him working in our life to bring us to Him, sometimes even many years before we come to Him, is so true. I looked back on my life before Him and saw places where He was working, arranging circumstances to bring me to Him. :)

I looked down and saw you kicking around in your blood and I saw that no one cared about you or covered or cleaned you. I saw you were ready for love and I said, live! Live!
(My paraphrase of what could very well be a few different verses).
exactly stunned. I saw that verse too years ago and saw it could be applied to each of us who are born.

And love it!