Not By Works

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Dec 12, 2013
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AMEN...all glory goes to Jesus...the "cake takers" however....love to boast of their works....and sinless perfectionism....and their Pharisee type application of the word....twisted and skewed beyond a salted pretzel.....

they will come before the throne boasting of their right to enter based upon the many wonderful works they have done in the name of Jesus only to be cast out.....
 

JohnTalmid

Senior Member
Mar 17, 2017
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This is an interesting statement. I have read so many people say they cannot judge who is
saved and who is not, yet here is a friend claiming they know, definatively this is the point of
becoming one with God, trusting in Christ.

But trusting in Him for what? Money, success, health, their latest fad or desire that crosses
their mind, that there eternal life plan will come to maturity?

This could be as wacky as Jesus loves me and does not want any harm to come to me, so has
given me the top notch bullet proof plan, with no conditions or expectations on my part, just
I sign on the dotted line. I mean guys, if this was the offer, who would not sign up.

And if you did not sign up, and this means you deserve to burn in eternal torture night and day,
that is a bit harsh. Get you name on the papers or burn, wow, not exactly justice...

And the irony is, if you do sign up, even if you go haywire it is still golden handshake time...
yahooooooo.

This does not fit with the God of the bible, but it does with the god of disney land.
So true. Once you hear the word it, ( the word) should lead you to YHWH Elohim and His ways. If on hearing the word they don't return to the Father and His ways then you can be 100% sure they have not yet trusted Elohim and therefore are not redeemed. Still not by works that they would be saved however if you're loving Elohim and the Messiah you will for example guard the Sabbath and confirm the whole law by practice. Works where never to prove to Elohim you are redeemed the purpose of the Law in Messiah is for us that are sinners in need of rightous instruction and proof of our salvation.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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Hebrews 5:7-9,13-14 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, HE OFFERED UP PRAYERS AND PETITIONS with loud cries and tears to the one who could SAVE HIM from death, and he was heard because of his REVERENT SUBMISSION. Although he was a son, he learned OBEDIENCE from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of ETERNAL SALVATION FOR ALL WHO OBEY HIM Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. But solid food is for the mature, who BY CONSTANT USE HAVE TRAINED THEMSELVES TO DISTINGUISH GOOD FROM EVIL.

Hebrews 6:9-12,17-19 Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are confident of better things in your case—things that accompany salvation. God is not unjust; HE WILL NOT FORGET YOUR WORK AND the LOVE you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them. We want each of you TO SHOW THIS SAME DILIGENCE TO THE VERY END, IN ORDER TO MAKE YOUR HOPE SURE. We do not want you to become LAZY, but to imitate those who through FAITH AND PATIENCE inherit what has been promised. Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his PURPOSE very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath. God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is IMPOSSIBLE FOR GOD TO LIE, we who have fled to TAKE HOLD OF THE HOPE OFFERED to us may be greatly ENCOURAGED. We have this HOPE as an ANCHOR for the soul, FIRM AND SECURE. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain,

Hebrews 7:24-26 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Therefore HE IS ABLE TO SAVE COMPLETELY those who come to God through him, because he always lives TO INTERCEDE FOR THEM. Such a high priest meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens.

Hebrews 9:14-15,26-28 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may SERVE the living God! For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are CALLED may receive the promised ETERNAL INHERITANCE—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the SINS COMMITTED UNDER THE FIRST COVENANT. Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared ONCE FOR ALL at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to FACE JUDGMENT, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to BRING SALVATION to those who are WAITING for him.

Ephesians 4:11-16 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers TO PREPARE GOD’S PEOPLE FOR WORKS OF SERVICE, so that the BODY OF CHRIST may be built up until we all reach unity in the FAITH AND in the KNOWLEDGE of the Son of God and become MATURE, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the CUNNING AND CRAFTINESS OF MEN IN THEIR DECEIPTFUL SCHEMING. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, AS EACH PART DOES ITS WORK.

Revelation 7:13-17 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?” I answered, “Sir, you know.” And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore, “they are before the throne of God and SERVE HIM day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will spread his tent over them. Never again will they hunger; never again will they thirst. The sun will not beat upon them, nor any scorching heat. For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; he will lead them to springs of living water. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”
 
Feb 24, 2015
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Engagement or just prodding

One can get into the situation where it is just prodding the opposition, and communication
has ceased. It appears to have become the case here.

dc's comment - cake eaters - is a case in point.
 
R

RuggeroA

Guest
In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not the works; rather, life in faith is the source of the works (Ephesians 2:5-10). Works salvationists have this backwards.

[/FONT]In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works. This is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith. James gives us the test for genuine faith: like the faith of Abraham, it results in works. So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" (together) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9 to verse 10) - that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.

With all respects I can’t agree with your take on the scriptures, so I will agree to disagree with you on that point. Nothing I say will change your mind on that type of reasoning BUT logically let’s look at something else.
Matt. 7:21-23 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name . . . ?’ “
Is it not clear that mere faith cannot save us!
What about this -
1 Corinthians: 6 “What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? + Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, + nor idolaters, + nor adulterers
What if one is a fornicator yet believes in Jesus? According to your illogical reasoning that person will still be saved. That would contradict this scripture that shows we have to follow Gods laws in order to be saved.
YES, of course one needs faith to be saved, but ALSO one needs works because the bible makes it clear that God has set rules for us to obey or else we will not inherit Gods Kingdom.

Let’s look at Abraham’s example:
The supreme test of Abraham’s faith was when built an altar and prepared to offer up Isaac, as a burnt sacrifice. “He reckoned that God was able to raise him up even from the dead.” Only at the last moment did God intervene and provide a ram as a substitute for Isaac on the sacrificial altar. It was, therefore, this implicit faith backed up by complete obedience that moved God to reinforce his covenant with Abraham with a sworn oath, a special legal guarantee.

YES Abraham had explicit faith, which is why God was so pleased with him HOWEVER he also was a good man that followed all of Gods laws and was very obedient.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
No sir, it is not to gain our salvation either.
Again, it has nothing to do with earning our salvation or anything else for that matter.
Yes, those who call on the name of Jesus WHEN THEY BELIEVE IN THEIR HEART, are saved at that moment. The calling out was not just proof of their faith but it caused their faith to manifest.

Luk 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth[causes it to manifest] that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

His mouth caused what he believed in his heart to come forth or to manifest itself. Had he not spoken what he believed and/or acted on it in some way, it would not come forth. This is the law of faith.
so have you changed your mind? you believe in eternal security, That the faith you received because of Gods drawing and teaching and sharing his word with you which caused you to repent and come to hi in faith has saved you forever, based on his promise on his work? and can never be lost. because it is based on his, his work, and his promise, Not on you?
 
S

Sully

Guest
Engagement or just prodding

One can get into the situation where it is just prodding the opposition, and communication
has ceased. It appears to have become the case here.

dc's comment - cake eaters - is a case in point.
You communicate? I think you only consider total acceptance of your faulty Mary be busy works doctrine as "communication".:rolleyes:
 
Feb 24, 2015
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You communicate? I think you only consider total acceptance of your faulty Mary be busy works doctrine as "communication".:rolleyes:
Sully - as I am not a works preacher, this echo is so empty.

And as I do not preach it I am not looking for total acceptance.

So this whole construct is meaningless and speaks to me more about a closed
heart and a desire to just reject anyone not like yourself, for whatever reasons
you have. God bless you and continue to Praise the Lord, Amen.
 
Mar 7, 2016
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AMEN...all glory goes to Jesus...the "cake takers" however....love to boast of their works....and sinless perfectionism....and their Pharisee type application of the word....twisted and skewed beyond a salted pretzel.....

they will come before the throne boasting of their right to enter based upon the many wonderful works they have done in the name of Jesus only to be cast out.....
oh ok so your the exercutioner nice to meet you not..

I really dont think thats going to happen and i know deep down you do too.. we are aloud to boast the bible says that boasting In Jesuses name is ok.. You however twist that to suit your ill mannered disrespectfull behavior of which i can only say God bless you as you certainly do need blessing in my book..

I think i know what type of cake eater you are... donut
 
Mar 7, 2016
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Go read Hebrews and quit calling God a liar just so you can oppose someone you disagree with....and then learn the difference between chastisement and judgment....more CAKE TAKING from you pal.

But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

All being indicative of SONS!

MAN, you take the cake!

I think you like using scripture to curse people and to suit your doctrin and to be exercutioner... just sad in my book and from where im standing its you who have issues.. with a real grievence..
 
Mar 7, 2016
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Is he not loving though that when his children do not do what is right to correct them?

God is not careless with his children but loving
1 John 3:10-18New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.


Billy it doesnt get much clearer than this,,, if you dont love your fellow brother God will want to know why and examine your heart and maybe speak to you... You may then have a repreive and love your fellow brother..

On the other hand you may Not listen to God and then what ?

Billy anyone who does not love the body the band of Brothers is of the enemy...

Billy anyone who turns there back on the lord and hates his Brother has Gone to the enemy...

Billy if you dont correct in love your off the enemy...

Billy if you disagree with this so be it but its your loss not mine..
 
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valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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1 John 3:10-18New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.
Yes so anyone who does not do God's will is not God's child. That also means that anyone who is God's child seeks to do what it right. Anyone does not mean everyone. In this case it splits those spoken of into two. Get your english sorted out.
 
Mar 7, 2016
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Engagement or just prodding

One can get into the situation where it is just prodding the opposition, and communication
has ceased. It appears to have become the case here.

dc's comment - cake eaters - is a case in point.
yup there is a load of proding going on i agree mate and good diserment from your part brother..

I have come to know you and i verry much appreciate what the lord has done for you.
Your tolerance and patience im sure is a gift :)

I call the proders finger pointers... Ive witnessed finger pointing first hand there people who reject Gods truth.

They dont realize what they have become either when they point there finger they dont realize the damage they can do to someone..

I say a meeting people face to face for a warm gesture is the best case for starting a fresh and would be happy to meet people in christian public meetings..

However mate meeting people face to face of the internet i would be wary coz to me theres clearly darkness in this thread which makes me wary but i would still meet them under a watcfull eye like with a buddy or two or maybe an authoritive figure in the middle so we could settle are diffrences respectfully..

I cant see that happeneing as im just a wee bit scared to meet some here..
Im even contemplating Joining another christian site to fellow ship..

However if i do that i feel the enenmy as won as io really do want the best for my brothers and i wish to what God wants us to be for brothers and that is a light..

I want God to walk in there lifes and for them to be eternaly saved and recieve salvation.
 
Mar 7, 2016
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Yes so anyone who does not do God's will is not God's child. That also means that anyone who is God's child seeks to do what it right. Anyone does not mean everyone. In this case it splits those spoken of into two. Get your english sorted out.
I wish you where 100 percent true about this with all my heart..

But reality check say not 100 percent of believers will recieve salvation..

I dont want to make one fear but i reall do feal that hoping for salvation is wonderful to me..
 
Mar 7, 2016
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This makes sence to me.. When you go its in the twinkling of an eye when the heart stops or the mind shuts down..

the avatar the body just shuts downs and we are joined in one with brothers....walking again laughing again singing again..

playing soccer again... and all that Jazz :p
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
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Engagement or just prodding

One can get into the situation where it is just prodding the opposition, and communication
has ceased. It appears to have become the case here.

dc's comment - cake eaters - is a case in point.
You cannot even quote me correctly....much less the scriptures......!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
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I think you like using scripture to curse people and to suit your doctrin and to be exercutioner... just sad in my book and from where im standing its you who have issues.. with a real grievence..

I think you and your pal like to reject any and all scripture that proves your error.....keep rejecting.....bad day coming for all who reject Jesus in favor of self and works......and no one said anything about EATING cake...you guys cannot even get a quote on CC right, much less the scriptures
 
S

Sully

Guest
Sully - as I am not a works preacher, this echo is so empty.

And as I do not preach it I am not looking for total acceptance.

So this whole construct is meaningless and speaks to me more about a closed
heart and a desire to just reject anyone not like yourself, for whatever reasons
you have. God bless you and continue to Praise the Lord, Amen.
What color is that kettle?
 
Mar 7, 2016
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I think you and your pal like to reject any and all scripture that proves your error.....keep rejecting.....bad day coming for all who reject Jesus in favor of self and works......and no one said anything about EATING cake...you guys cannot even get a quote on CC right, much less the scriptures
I think that this a too long all out war that will go on and on with you.. A YOUVE BECOME CHIEF FALSE ACCUSATIOIN AND EXERCUTIONERS OF A FALSE WITNESS...WHO TELS LIES....