Not By Works

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PHart

Guest
ALL means ALL.....Love CAST out ALL FEAR
Are you again missing the fact that John said it is the person who loves that has nothing to fear about the coming Judgment, not simply the one who has God's love in salvation? You seem evasive. If you have no fear of what John says, can you acknowledge that is what he is saying: Only the person who loves is free from the fear of the Judgment.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
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lol, what a joker you are. If I could take you seriously I would actually doing myself more harm
than good.

Do you think abuse, and accusation calling helps your cause?
I think you must but then look whose example you are following?

Bad company corrupts the character, example 1.
The above is the epitome of hypocrisy, lol!

Nowhere did I abuse, I simply mentioned that you made unsubstantiated and slanderous remarks. Perhaps this is abuse to you, to expose what you are doing, that is, making slanderous unfounded remarks about others.

Now, we will all, including God Himself await for you to substantiate, with evidence, your false claims, or, remain a mocking, slanderer who has fabricated statements upon others that are unfounded, and thus, untrue.

And look, you're still doing it, you're doing it again, and still, above!

Is this your daily practice (1 John)? It is what I see here in you, yes, daily, and multiple times per day.

This appears to be your practice of sin, daily, something you claim proves others lost.

You must admit that this is sin, for bearing false witness is just that, but will give you benefit of the doubt and allow you once more to finally prove your claims with evidence.

But of course, otherwise, and since you cannot prove your claims, you must be:

1) One who holds to a double standard, or;

2) You are making such a claim upon yourself, unwittingly, as to what practicing sin reveals about a person.
 
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ALL means ALL.....Love CAST out ALL FEAR



!
That is the essence of the false doctrine of "saved by works". It comes in many flavors and colors but it's core belief remains unchanged and it is a direct violation of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection. It is always those that think our loving Father throws His beloved children into hell that come up with this doctrine.


All religions - including the religion of Christianity ( as there is a religion like this that tries to mimic the life of Christ ) - are really manifesting that they are eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which has been set lose in this earth by Adam's transgression.

They are basing their life on what they do or don't do. They are attempting to establish their own righteousness by what they do or don't do instead of the finished work of Christ.

Good works in order to maintain being saved are a prime example of this.


We see the "descriptions" in the words and actions of Jesus and in the epistles of what the true Christian life looks like when Christ's life and His fruit are being manifested.

The religion of Christianity then takes these "descriptions" and tries to "dictate" to the believers the life of Christ or the fruit of the Spirit into being.

In essence they are trying to mimic or duplicate the life and fruit of Christ and at the same time "demanding" that others do the same thing or else they are not saved.

The true Christian life is Christ Himself joined as one spirit with us manifesting His love, His grace, His life in and through us. It is His fruit - without Him we can do nothing.

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will be with us forever. ( John 14:16 ) Jesus is NOT a liar.

All works-based - works-righteousness belief systems ( including the religion of Christianity ) have this as their core essence and it really nullifies the true grace of God from operating in our lives like it should.

This is the "why" behind when people say we must do "good works". That is what the fruit brings behind the work-for-salvation mindset and to maintain and create righteousness.

The reality is - as we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror - we are transformed by the Holy Spirit and the life of Christ will manifest itself in the doing of good works as the fruit of being in union with Him.

We do good works because it is a fruit of being in union with Christ not "to be saved. " Christ alone is our Savior.

Preach and teach the love and grace of God in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and Christians will have the proper nutrients to walk out what already is within them - which is Christ in us - the hope of glory
.

We live by His life in us now - Christ Himself is that tree of life. Notice it is not the "knowledge of the tree of life" ( like it is with the other tree - the knowledge of good and evil ). We live by His life now.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yes, I have noticed this about the church with this recent influx of H-grace teaching. That teaching excuses unrepentant, even willful sin and claims immunity by the blood of Christ while condemning everyone else who doesn't agree with them that grace is a licence to show up at the Judgment without any works.
how is this even related to what I said? I was talking about those judging other people of all this sin, most of which are the very same sins that the ones judging are doing themselves., while ignoring the fact they are doing the very thing they are judging thers. Or ignoreing their own sin all together, Like pharisees did.

Second, Hypergrace does not excuse unrepentant, willful sin, when will get off this rabbit trail that leads to no where. Why don;t you try to sit still for a few minutes, and listen to the people your judging, and try to see what they actually believe, and more importantly, not force your opinion of what you THINK they believe on them, when it is not true.


Even those in the church that aren't officially H-grace have traces of this 'sin doesn't matter' teaching in their doctrines. It's overtaking the church. I suspected it was a demonic spirit at work spreading this thinking, but now I'm convinced it's a spirit at work in the church--the spirit of anti-christ. And I believe this is the end-times work of the spirit of anti-christ preparing the way for the Man of Perdition. I also believe that the day is not far away when people like myself who speak out against it will be martyred. The rabid dog resistance I meet in the church about this subject is showing me that.

So who here teaches this so called "sin does not matter" aspect of Christianity? Can you name one person and show the post where they have made this claim?

As far as salvation goes. Sin only matters if we are under law. The law judges sin as sin, and places ALL sinners (including you and me) under a curse. It does not take sides, It does not judge based on sex, age, race, religion or nationality, it judges all people as sinners.

so you have to decide yourself. Do you want to fall under law or under the grace of God where you are washed white as snow?

the choice is up to you my friend.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
No names.

No, no, not NoNameMcGee, lol. I mean, I'm not naming names. That would be counter productive.
no, it would actually allow people to see who you are talking about. And actually be able to see if you are being honest, and not just deflecting as usually is the case.


Like saying people excuse sin, it would be good to know who does this, so we can test your witness to see if you are being truthful, or just attacking something that is not real.

Silence is your worse enemy, because people outside think you have something to hide. And are not being truthful
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
ALL means ALL.....Love CAST out ALL FEAR

YET, you judge me, accuse of a do nothing doctrine and assume I live in sin

I can judge your dogma and it does not line up nor come close to what the bible teaches concerning eternal security, the promises of God and or the inspired verb tense applied unto salvation.

I judge your doctrine based upon the word.....YOU assume because I believe in salvation by grace dia faith eternally........your only hang up which is enough to keep you from making the cut.....blending faith and REQUIRED works to MAINTAIN.....not found in scripture.....!

I think it is funny actually,''he is trying to defend the word. "Love casts out all fear"

by preaching a gospel that can do nothing but spread fear into all who buy into it.

What fear is greater than having salvation, then ending up in hell because you did not do enough to keep it
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
3,754
4,119
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Afternoon all...I am free, praise the Lord \o/...No more self effort, just going where the Lord leads me...xox...
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Are you again missing the fact that John said it is the person who loves that has nothing to fear about the coming Judgment, not simply the one who has God's love in salvation? You seem evasive. If you have no fear of what John says, can you acknowledge that is what he is saying: Only the person who loves is free from the fear of the Judgment.

Oh boy, do what?

He who fears has not been made perfect in love,

Who's love Your love? I mean really? Wow man.

We are made perfect in GODS LOVE, not our own.

we love because God first loved us, We are not made perfect in our love but through GODS LOVE
 

Enow

Banned
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
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I'm pretty sure you have agreed that true saving faith will have works attached. But then you judge me as a works salvationist if I say the same thing. Stop and ask yourself why you do that.

I've made it abundantly clear that I do not believe works earn salvation but rather works are the 'natural' outcome of the person who has justifying faith, just as you have said the same thing. If my plain words about what I believe about works not being able to earn salvation can't be seen by you, how could you possibly see what I'm trusting in in the hidden place of my heart? Think about it.

Why are you vehemently defending the person who claims to have faith but has no works to validate that faith as being real?
If you consider that not all born again believers are rooted in His words to show the obvious works that "should" follow someone whom had been saved, then you cannot use that notion to say that works is a natural outcome of someone that has been saved, otherwise backsliders can be judged by others as well as judging themselves that they are not saved.

It is because they are saved, they need to go to Jesus Christ at that throne of grace as their Good Shepherd for help to repent from their sins in following Him.

So no. Works will not always follow a born again believer when they need mature believers to disciple them in His words when there is a race to be run of looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help them lay aside every weight & sin every day.

And yes... sometimes even mature believes backslide that need correction, rebuke, encouragement to continue to go to Him for help in departing from iniquity when they may be tempted to just give up when disappointed with themselves and they see something like what you said and the devil turns it around to serve as judgment and evidence that he is not saved and so he might as well give it up running that race and live in sin.

So no. Works will not always follow a born again believers as they may not be rooted in His words to know they need Him to discern iniquity to depart from them with His help and by His grace by living by faith in Him as our Good Shepherd to do that. And we all need encouragement from time to time to keep looking to Him for help to do that when the storms of our lives causes our flesh to forget that important truth of why we need Him all the time daily.. in following Him.

It is just too easy for the devil to show "evidence" by the spontaneous sins and even when getting them hooked into living in sin or fall back into habitual or addictive sin to lie that they were never saved in the first place for the works of sinning proves they never had saving faith. And I am sure you know that is not true.

So what you say is not true. Works do not "always" as in "naturally" come afterwards to a born again believer to prove they have saving faith in Jesus Christ. That is why saving faith in Jesus Christ is without works for we are all children of God by faith in Jesus Christ; Galatians 3:26

Discipleship requires teaching believers to disciple believers to apply their faith in Jesus Christ that He is also their Good Shepherd too since we can only live this reconcile relationship with God by the grace of God through Jesus Christ.

This is why it is simply written that the just shall live by faith; not by works. We can only do the works by faith in Him, but they are not an indication of saving faith when believers not abiding in Him are still saved anyway. Yea.. even former believers that err from the truth and have their faith overthrown ; they have no faith, but He is faithful for He still abides. We do not waste time preaching the gospel to former believers when it is the error that turned them away that needs reproved by Him & His words. The call to repentance is what every believer need to be discipled into heeding into running that race by faith in the author & finisher of our faith to help us lay aside works that hides our faith in Him.

[video=youtube;_rR_Rdb1CTE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rR_Rdb1CTE[/video]
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
The above is the epitome of hypocrisy, lol!

Nowhere did I abuse, I simply mentioned that you made unsubstantiated and slanderous remarks. Perhaps this is abuse to you, to expose what you are doing, that is, making slanderous unfounded remarks about others.

Now, we will all, including God Himself await for you to substantiate, with evidence, your false claims, or, remain a mocking, slanderer who has fabricated statements upon others that are unfounded, and thus, untrue.

And look, you're still doing it, you're doing it again, and still, above!

Is this your daily practice (1 John)? It is what I see here in you, yes, daily, and multiple times per day.

This appears to be your practice of sin, daily, something you claim proves others lost.

You must admit that this is sin, for bearing false witness is just that, but will give you benefit of the doubt and allow you once more to finally prove your claims with evidence.

But of course, otherwise, and since you cannot prove your claims, you must be:

1) One who holds to a double standard, or;

2) You are making such a claim upon yourself, unwittingly, as to what practicing sin reveals about a person.
he has been doing it since he first got here. Multiple people have tried to get him to see this,. But he refuses. It is best to just put him where you can not see him, I keep praying someone can reason with him, and maybe one day he will finally see the light, but until then, just not worth it brother.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
That is the essence of the false doctrine of "saved by works". It comes in many flavors and colors but it's core belief remains unchanged and it is a direct violation of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ's work on the cross and resurrection. It is always those that think our loving Father throws His beloved children into hell that come up with this doctrine.


All religions - including the religion of Christianity ( as there is a religion like this that tries to mimic the life of Christ ) - are really manifesting that they are eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which has been set lose in this earth by Adam's transgression.

They are basing their life on what they do or don't do. They are attempting to establish their own righteousness by what they do or don't do instead of the finished work of Christ.

Good works in order to maintain being saved are a prime example of this.


We see the "descriptions" in the words and actions of Jesus and in the epistles of what the true Christian life looks like when Christ's life and His fruit are being manifested.

The religion of Christianity then takes these "descriptions" and tries to "dictate" to the believers the life of Christ or the fruit of the Spirit into being.

In essence they are trying to mimic or duplicate the life and fruit of Christ and at the same time "demanding" that others do the same thing or else they are not saved.

The true Christian life is Christ Himself joined as one spirit with us manifesting His love, His grace, His life in and through us. It is His fruit - without Him we can do nothing.

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will be with us forever. ( John 14:16 ) Jesus is NOT a liar.

All works-based - works-righteousness belief systems ( including the religion of Christianity ) have this as their core essence and it really nullifies the true grace of God from operating in our lives like it should.

This is the "why" behind when people say we must do "good works". That is what the fruit brings behind the work-for-salvation mindset and to maintain and create righteousness.

The reality is - as we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror - we are transformed by the Holy Spirit and the life of Christ will manifest itself in the doing of good works as the fruit of being in union with Him.

We do good works because it is a fruit of being in union with Christ not "to be saved. " Christ alone is our Savior.

Preach and teach the love and grace of God in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ and Christians will have the proper nutrients to walk out what already is within them - which is Christ in us - the hope of glory
.

We live by His life in us now - Christ Himself is that tree of life. Notice it is not the "knowledge of the tree of life" ( like it is with the other tree - the knowledge of good and evil ). We live by His life now.

Amen,

it is my work, My belief, My love, My desire, My obedience.

it is not Gods work, Gods love, Gods forgiveness. Gods promise. It is all about them.

all we can do is pray one day they see it.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Afternoon all...I am free, praise the Lord \o/...No more self effort, just going where the Lord leads me...xox...
amen sis, It is Gods work, not our own. Praise God who loved us and saved us and will finish the work he started in us.
 
W

willybob

Guest
1) the work of repentance 2) then remission and mercy; this 2 factional reality is found all through the books of the prophets, even on every page,,

Zechariah
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: versetable, width: 100%"]2 The LORD hath been sore displeased with your fathers.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: versetable, width: 100%"]3 Therefore say thou unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; 1) Turn ye unto me, saith the LORD of hosts, and 2)I will turn unto you, saith the LORD of hosts.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: versetable, width: 100%"]4 Be ye not as your fathers, unto whom the former prophets have cried, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; 1) Turn ye now from your evil ways, (make clean departure from iniquity) and from your evil doings: but they did not hear, nor hearken unto me, saith the LORD. ) 2) thus no remission no mercy

James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you.
1) Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. 9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and 2) he shall lift you up.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
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Amen,

it is my work, My belief, My love, My desire, My obedience.

it is not Gods work, Gods love, Gods forgiveness. Gods promise. It is all about them.

all we can do is pray one day they see it.
All of us have been exposed to this type of teaching in some form or other which nullifies the very grace of God needed for true transformation to occur by the Holy Spirit to reflect in our outward behavior the new creation in Christ.

If someone would have told me what us " believers in the gospel of the grace of God in Christ" are saying before I was taught the true gospel of the grace of God in Christ - by the Lord Himself - I would have been saying the exact same things as some of the others in the thread. So, I can understand the "opposition" to some things. I did it myself.

What a freedom to be released from the legalistic mindset that comes with the religion of Christianity which tries to mimic the life of Christ by what we do or don't do. It's a flesh trip.

Learning to walk by the spirit is the only way for true transformation to occur in which our minds get renewed to the realities that are in Christ and thus bear His fruit in and through our lives so that others can see the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them.

Keep proclaiming Christ Himself and His work as faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ. Rom. 10:17
 
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willybob

Guest
amen sis, It is Gods work, not our own. Praise God who loved us and saved us and will finish the work he started in us.
i would suppose the picture posted depicts that these are the results of your works of iniquity (self-numbered among the wicked), finding security in filthy rags. However, not true of Job and Daniels good works, their works were as to white robes......don't try and bring others down to your self-professed level...By the inspiration of God, Job and Daniel were delivered by their own righteous works Ezek 14..
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
All of us have been exposed to this type of teaching in some form or other which nullifies the very grace of God needed for true transformation to occur by the Holy Spirit to reflect in our outward behavior the new creation in Christ.

If someone would have told me what us " believers in the gospel of the grace of God in Christ" are saying before I was taught the true gospel of the grace of God in Christ - by the Lord Himself - I would have been saying the exact same things as some of the others in the thread. So, I can understand the "opposition" to some things. I did it myself.

What a freedom to be released from the legalistic mindset that comes with the religion of Christianity which tries to mimic the life of Christ by what we do or don't do. It's a flesh trip.

Learning to walk by the spirit is the only way for true transformation to occur in which our minds get renewed to the realities that are in Christ and thus bear His fruit in and through our lives so that others can see the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them.

Keep proclaiming Christ Himself and His work as faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ. Rom. 10:17
even as true believers there are those who want to take the security of christ away and feed us the spirit of fear. Getting us to look at our performance as a means to earn Gods love, not at Gods love itself This places our eyes on ourselves and prevented us from looking to others to share Gods love, Which takes us out of the war, and puts us on the sidelines, Because we need healed of this sickness which even infests the church.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
i would suppose the picture depicts that these are the results of your works of iniquity (self-numbered among the wicked) finding security in filthy rags. However, not true of Job and Daniels good works, their works were as to white robes......don't try and bring others down to your self-professed level...By the inspiration of God, Job and Daniel were delivered by their own righteous works Ezek 14..

the bible says our works are as filthy rags.

Daniel and Job had works whihc proceeded from faith in God, that is why they did what they did.

You want to boast in your works. Feel free. But please. Do it elsewhere
 
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willybob

Guest
some perceive that Jesus said> lou, lou, skip to me-lou, through the pearly gates because I did it all for you, and many will enter in. Rather than strive (agonize in the Greek), to enter in, for few be that find it...they seem to have everything completely backwards in the text,,,,why did Jesus say "agonize"? because crucifying the flesh is much suffering, but by doing so one ceases from sin, said Peter.....................be blessed in the narrow way
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
some perceive that Jesus said> lou, lou, skip to me-lou, through the pearly gates because I did it all for you, and many will enter in. Rather than strive (agonize in the Greek), to enter in, for few be that find it...they seem to have everything completely backwards in the text,,,,why did Jesus say "agonize"? because crucifying the flesh is much suffering, but by doing so one ceases from sin, said Peter.....................be blessed in the narrow way

You better agonize real hard and get rid of your self righteousness. Thinking you have saved yourself. As do all religions on earth, and agonize even harder to get rid of the pride that refuses to allow us to see the grace of God, and by the name of Jesus and ONLY by that name can we enter in.
 
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Oh, I'm waiting to check "my history here" while waiting for you to document it, historically. Then I can really "check" history.

Documentation. Go get it. And then apply this to those who were accused by name with further documentation.

All we have thus far are accusations. Unsubstantiated accusations attached to names.

If you cannot provide this in documented detail, as well as those of others, said accusations will then be considered slander and false. Since you claim these to be true, you should have ready proof.

You've gone on to support this, now provide literal proof of these accusations.
Notice you left off the most important part of my post....this proves you have a closed mind...just because you think something is untrue does not make it untrue...now to be the spiritual adult here, let me show my entire post to you versus the proof-text you did on my post, so people can judge for themselves....notice the bold parts please

Better check your history here p4t...Early Christianity was in fact influenced heavily by Platoism....Of Christianity, notable followers were in fact, St. Augustine, Aquinas, Clement of Alexandria, Origen, and few others...

I think willy went a bit past the mandate here....but you can google christian platonists and find credible references and facts that the above church fathers were very heavily influenced by Platoism... I cannot find anything on Calvin, Spurgeon or others and that might be where willy went past the mandate...

Here are some links that have other links to prove the point....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoplatonism_and_Christianity

Perhaps the best record is this one:

http://www.john-uebersax.com/plato/cp.htm<<<<his list links to the historical records.


I also suppose you would outright deny that when Paul preached at Mars Hill, he was not quoting two Greek Poets in Acts 17.28 which is taken from 2 poems/hymns written by 2 Greek men to Zeus...1 an astronomer and poet and the other a Greek Stoic...and were most likely...Aratus and Cleanthes

Christian Platonism is what birthed Gnostic doctrine and was rapidly invading the Early Church in the 1-4 centuries

Gnostics originated in Alexandria and mingled with the early Christian church in the 1st century....this is why John sent his 3 letters out to the churches because the Church as becoming heavily influenced by syncretism.....This is why he wrote 1 John 2.19 and why that verse has zero to do with salvation or eternal security and should no be used as a bully wielding billy club to judge salvation...by saying with arrogance....oh that person, they were never saved to begin with....John knew those who had invaded the church were not believers....he was warning other churches about Platonic and Gnostic influences that are the spirit of antichrist...


For the record, I am also available if you would like me to come to your next cookout and cut your steak, separate your veggies and taters and get your favorite sippee cup filled with Juice for you as well....


Now put up or shut up about this....because your closed mind to all thing Calvin is limiting your otherwise great wisdom on discerning false teachings...
 
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