Not By Works

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loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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Is hulk hogan representing the GOD reliant in your story ? And the self reliant according to you Randy Savage?

GOD is above all things and all powerful and those that rely on Him know they have His good work to do while under Grace at Liberty.

The saints Keep the Commandments and have the Faith of Jesus because that is the New Covenant.

and a sign you are yet to believe the Messiah's Testament is when you reach for a verse against the above rather than affirm...
 
Apr 23, 2017
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u know one ting i must say about works salvationist pushers..... i can never overstand their speech. they are on some sneaky juice u see.

its just a false gospel hidden inside love talk.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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u know one ting i must say about works salvationist pushers..... i can never overstand their speech. they are on some sneaky juice u see.

its just a false gospel hidden inside love talk.
just state the error based on GOD's Truth rather than sneaky insults.. if not then you may have found something that needs your attention..
 
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just state the error based on GOD's Truth rather than sneaky insults.. if not then you may have found something that needs your attention..
i did state the error u see. the error is, if u are teaching that u gotta earn ur salvation by works such as i see u say; keeping the sabbath. then u are preaching a false gospel.

how sad.

ps: i do my best to keep sabbath but i dont teach its a salvation issue
 
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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Phart u keep talking about continue to believe n tings but i dont know how u can stop believing?????? i have tried many times u see....... i havent succeeded. so im living proof of God holding on to us and keeping us u see.

but also doesnt the bible teach that its God that gifts us the faith????? i think i remember reading it somewhere u see.
Belief that does not continue was never firmly rooted and established from the start or else it would have continued. I don't see how a genuine believer could permanently stop believing either. My faith is too engrained into me and I'm too convinced to ever completely stop believing. If it was not for the Father drawing me and enabling me (John 6:44,65) I would have never come to believe in the first place (all glory to God!), so how could it be up to me to pull myself up by my own bootstraps and force myself to keep believing?
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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i did state the error u see. the error is, if u are teaching that u gotta earn ur salvation by works such as i see u say; keeping the sabbath. then u are preaching a false gospel.

how sad.
Show me where I have said a person must keep the Sabbath to be saved?
 
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Show me where I have said a person must keep the Sabbath to be saved?
in the sabbath thread u see...... do u really expect me to go through your 7000 posts and look for it? :D
if u dont teach works for salvation just say it.

but when u say tings like "The saints Keep the Commandments and have the Faith of Jesus because that is the New Covenant." and then u are asked is the sabbath one of the commandments? u say yes, and then if one doesnt keep it, one isnt a saint or saved. is that not what u say??????
if not i apologize. i have misoverstood u
 

Amberlight

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2016
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in the sabbath thread u see...... do u really expect me to go through your 7000 posts and look for it? :D
if u dont teach works for salvation just say it.

but when u say tings like "The saints Keep the Commandments and have the Faith of Jesus because that is the New Covenant." and then u are asked is the sabbath one of the commandments? u say yes, and then if one doesnt keep it, one isnt a saint or saved. is that not what u say??????
if not i apologize. i have misoverstood u
If you make claim you should be ready to back it up :p
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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in the sabbath thread u see...... do u really expect me to go through your 7000 posts and look for it? :D
if u dont teach works for salvation just say it.

but when u say tings like "The saints Keep the Commandments and have the Faith of Jesus because that is the New Covenant." and then u are asked is the sabbath one of the commandments? u say yes, and then if one doesnt keep it, one isnt a saint or saved. is that not what u say??????
if not i apologize. i have misoverstood u
Now you are reaching...

The Bible states those things, I believe and relay .. and yes the Sabbath is a Commandment that the Messiah taught us about.. as in the Sabbath was made for man and it is lawful to do good and so on.. now have I said to a person must keep the Sabbath to be saved?

Quite different to say those that Love GOD Keep His Commandments to someone than going around saying Keep the Sabbath or die.. and the difference is the Messiah's Testament... the Holy Spirit Baptism...

You see I believe the Messiah's Testament and share freely to be accused of trying to spread a works Gospel.. is it not my Faith in Christ that I share here?

You see the law of Faith is doing things because GOD loved you first.. it is the heart that obeys because they are grateful and love their Saviour.


So if I go around saying Keep the Sabbath to be saved where is the Faith in Christ?
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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I have a question for you. In post #6 in the "Why does keeping seventh-day Sabbath = Salvation by works?" thread, you said, "The law of Moses and The 10 Commandments of GOD are seperate..."

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ping-seventh-day-sabbath-salvation-works.html

Please explain to me why you believe they are separate?
Yes through Faith in Christ they are seperate through His New Testament... He went in to the Holiest place.. the vail was twain in the temple when Jesus gave up the Spirit.

The Spirit given when we believe is subject to GOD's Law.

Think back to the Old Testament and the vail they made Moses wear.. it is gone through Faith in the Messiah.
 
Apr 23, 2017
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Now you are reaching...

The Bible states those things, I believe and relay .. and yes the Sabbath is a Commandment that the Messiah taught us about.. as in the Sabbath was made for man and it is lawful to do good and so on.. now have I said to a person must keep the Sabbath to be saved?

Quite different to say those that Love GOD Keep His Commandments to someone than going around saying Keep the Sabbath or die.. and the difference is the Messiah's Testament... the Holy Spirit Baptism...

You see I believe the Messiah's Testament and share freely to be accused of trying to spread a works Gospel.. is it not my Faith in Christ that I share here?

You see the law of Faith is doing things because GOD loved you first.. it is the heart that obeys because they are grateful and love their Saviour.


So if I go around saying Keep the Sabbath to be saved where is the Faith in Christ?
but can u answer me, if someone doesnt keep the sabbath. does that mean he isnt saved????

the reason i dont think im reaching u see is this: u always say faith works by love and those saints keep his commandments, and if i overstand u correctly those commandments include sabbath. but i just want a straight answer.
 
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loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
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The Jewish people keep the Sabbath according to the Old Testament yet they do not believe in the New Testament where the Just shall live by Faith... they do not believe Jesus is the Son of GOD sent to Forgive and Reconcile us with Heavenly Father.

So they are under the law condemned.. in unbelief and have not their hearts circumcised..

Yet the saints Keep the Commandments of GOD and Have the Faith of Jesus.. because without Faith it is impossible to please GOD.

He is the rewarder of them that diligently seek Him..

So when you read the Messiah teach you to Keep even the least Commandment and that we should Love GOD and each other consider the 10 Commandments and see that the Spirit is given to Love as we are Loved.. a circumcised heart indeed.

Be a doer of the Royal Law by believing.... and growing in Grace and knowledge of Christ.
 

Amberlight

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2016
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It is all very simple.

Sabbath was made for man.

People do not seem to understand this.

God made sabbath for man to have day of rest.

Now people of course found it good time also go to worship in day of rest as they had time in their hands what would not be better right ?

Slowly it became a day or God not day of Man.

Sabbath was made for man for his rest that's it it was not made to be worship day or day to give to lord etc it is for REST.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
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but can u answer me, if someone doesnt keep the sabbath. does that mean he isnt saved????

the reason i dont think im reaching u see is this: u always say faith works by love and those saints keep his commandments, and if i overstand u correctly those commandments include sabbath. but i just want a straight answer.

The Bible teaches us these things and the Holy Spirit guides and comforts us in to all Truth.. Keeping the Sabbath does not save you.. it is believing GOD through Christ that saves you.. the Keeping of the Commandments comes through believing His Testament... it is the Law of Faith and we are to live by the Spirit. Faith, Justice and Mercy is through the New Testament.

So you say is a person saved if they don't Keep Sabbath.. and I say does a person Love GOD if they Keep not His Commandments through Faith in His Son? and it is there that a person needs to seek the answer for themselves.

Love is a I shall in place of the thou shall.... we are at liberty to do good and I will not judge but believe, do and share until I be judged by Christ.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
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Here is something that may shed light, may you perceive:
John 7


19Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me? 20The people answered and said, Thou hast a devil: who goeth about to kill thee? 21Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel. 22Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man. 23If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day? 24Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.


Have a little time thinking this through...
 
P

PHart

Guest
I don't see how a genuine believer could permanently stop believing either.
And that's why we should not project on to others our own determination to keep believing. We aren't everybody else. Just because we ourselves are determined to keep believing doesn't mean everybody else is. It was a big step for me in loving like God loves when I realized how wrong it is to project our feelings, likes, dislikes, etc. onto others. I mean that. I became a much more calm, patient, and tolerant person when I realized this. People are who they are, not who we are.


My faith is too engrained into me and I'm too convinced to ever completely stop believing.
And that is exactly the point. I learned that this matter of faith is not so much a matter of 'either, or' as it is 'strong vs. weak'. Some people don't have as strong of faith as you or I or somebody else, but they have saving faith nonetheless. They struggle with different things. They have different things they want and desire than us, and to different degrees than us. To project our depth of faith and resistance to temptation onto others is simply wrong to do. We are not them, and they are not us.


If it was not for the Father drawing me and enabling me (John 6:44,65) I would have never come to believe in the first place (all glory to God!), so how could it be up to me to pull myself up by my own bootstraps and force myself to keep believing?
You can't. That's why believing won't last in a person without God's help and encouragement. Which is why we can not boast either. It won't last without God in the picture encouraging us to keep believing.

Our walk of faith is like a child learning to walk all the while his parents hold his hands in their's. Yes, the child himself walked, but not without the help of his parents that ultimately makes it happen. Our walk of faith only happens because of God's encouragement and power to help us walk the steps of faith, not walk those steps for us. It can't happen at all or for very long without God's encouragement. Our responsibility is to respond to his encouragement and be saved.

It think it quite naive at best to think once you become a believer you no longer have a responsibility to respond to God's encouragement (and warnings) because now that you believe you're programmed to automatically respond, and so you have been relieved of that responsibility. Time and testing will reveal this truth in the life of the believer. If you have strong faith, because you actively seek God through fellowship, Bible reading, worship, and prayer, you won't be so easily swayed away from believing when trials and doubts come. But if you have been in the habit of watching 'Game of Thrones', for example, or doing other wrong things outside of the Christian faith you will be easily swayed and more likely to fall when the time of testing comes.

It's all about strong faith vs. weak faith. We are to nurture strong faith within ourselves by living a lifestyle of God consciousness, not a worldly lifestyle, so that when our hour of testing comes we will persevere in our believing, not bail out and be lost on the Day of Judgment.
 
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