Not By Works

[PHart]

Your answer reminded me of this:

View attachment 175337

Perhaps you should stop playing the "grace is a license to sin" card

When you say there is NOTHING the believer can say, or do, or think to lose his salvation you are making the grace of God a license to do anything.

 

[Magenta]

REPEAT....don't EVER play the 'nobody can keep the law card again'. NOBODY here is saying they keep the law perfectly.

There are those who DO say that, and that people in the OT did as well. Have you really never met any of them that claim to be without sin? How very odd. Other odd situations I have encountered here are those who keep saying they would rather tell the truth to others and risk offending them, but are then offended when the truth is told to them. Likewise peculiar those who claim we need to accept the truth of Scripture while they in turn deny it, such as people who reject the divinity of Jesus Christ, for example. This place certainly lacks nothing in terms of contradictory people who do not see themselves very well.

 

[gb9]

No I didnt change my tune, he never touched on it...



Show me where he answered my question and I will admit, however just because you say he replied does not mean he did, he ignored it and said something not pertaning to the 3 verses and there was not even a yes or no...





Im not sure what that is, but I have to say no, because only Yahshua was without sin on this earth. and What have I ever said to make you think that I think im sinless?

so, while you are waiting to get proven wrong, opps, I mean answered by decon, maybe you will address 1st John 3 v. 22-24, where he explained the commands God expects us to keep

and I am speaking of an actual answer, not throwing out random verses, the Bible does not contradict. so trying to set Scripture against Scripture is a waste of time.

 

[preacher4truth]

REPEAT....don't EVER play the 'nobody can keep the law card again'. NOBODY here is saying they keep the law perfectly.

Um...since you're playing the keep the law card you're under a curse to keep it all.

Perfectly.

The only person you're fooling is yourself. That you blast all protestantism as deceived is another asinine claim of yours, as if you're some spiritual maverick straightening out everyone on a forum. You're the one who is deceived.

 

[PHart]

You do not believe in jesus, you believe in your ability to continue to believe, your not fooling anyone but yourself.

I believe that it is through believing that you secure that which saves. That's not a works gospel, lol. That's THE gospel. Where did you get this strange gospel where believing is a work of the damnable works gospel? Who told you justification/salvation/is by nothing at all, not even by believing?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

REPEAT....don't EVER play the 'nobody can keep the law' card again. NOBODY here is saying they keep the law perfectly. Got it? They rely on the blood of Christ for forgiveness when they fall short just like the rest of us (well, most of us).

lol. You make me laugh dude

As long as people proclaim we must obey the law to be saved, I will continue to share the truth, that perfect obedience is required for that to happen.

You started this by attacking DC because you thought you were so smart, and all you have done is prove how little you know about the people you are arguing with.


You have no right to tell anyone to do anything

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I believe that it is through believing that you secure that which saves. That's not a works gospel, lol. That's THE gospel. Where did you get this strange gospel where believing is a work of the damnable works gospel? Who told you justification/salvation/is by nothing at all, not even by believing?

You believe we maintain salvation by our ability to continue to believe. You have no faiht God can keep his people from falling from faith or you would not preach such things. So End of story.

 

[PHart]

Um...since you're playing the keep the law card you're under a curse to keep it all.

The curse is on those who keep the law to be justified by it. You are not under a curse for keeping it for any and all reasons. If that were true then Paul himself is accursed, lol (he observed the law).

The Protestant church is utterly blind to this fact. Even when you show them that is the context of Paul's 'faith vs. works' doctrine they still can't see it....or they refuse to see it. I'm not sure which sometimes. It may be both. They don't want to see it, so they can't. That's the danger of rejecting the truth when you see it. Sooner or later you lose the ability to see it.

That you blast all protestantism as deceived is another asinine claim of yours, as if you're some spiritual maverick straightening out everyone on a forum. You're the one who is deceived.

And of course you're the spiritual maverick that has it all together and is not deceived, right? See, you learn to not use those kinds of arguments after being in forums for a while, lol.

 

[PHart]

You believe we maintain salvation by our ability to continue to believe. You have no faiht God can keep his people from falling from faith or you would not preach such things. So End of story.

The Bible speaks very clearly about people who do not continue to believe. And it warns us to not become one of them. So you think those are meaningless, inapplicable warnings. I don't. End of story.

 

[VCO]

He died so you can uphold the righteousness of the law through the power of the Holy Spirit, not trample it underfoot as if grace was your license to sin.

The Protestant church is not as smart as she thinks she is.

I repeat: WE DO NOT BELIEVE GRACE IS A LICENSE TO SIN, THAT IS IN YOUR SINFUL SUSPICIONS. WE BELIEVE WHEN YOU TRULY ARE SAVED, the HOLY SPIRIT at the same moment births your dead spirit into eternal life, and at the same time HE, the HOLY SPIRIT pours GOD's LOVE directly into our hearts. GOD's LOVE in our hearts produces a deep desire in our hearts to Obey HIM as a way to LOVE HIM back.

You can stop spreading lies about our beliefs. You were taught by False Teachers who knew little or NOTHING about our true beliefs.


Jeremiah 23:32 (HCSB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] I am against those who prophesy false dreams”—the LORD’s declaration—“telling them and leading My people astray with their falsehoods and their boasting. It was not I who sent or commanded them, and they are of no benefit at all to these people”—⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration.

2 Timothy 3:13 (ESV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.


Every time I heard someone say something like: "You people think grace is a license to sin."; it is coming from someone like you who only THINKS they know what we teach and believe; when in reality YOU DO NOT. NEVER, have I heard such a LIE coming from any pulpit, and in my younger years, I moved a lot, so I was involved in MANY DIFFERENT CHURCHES. Those LIES only come from people like you.

In my life I the Churches I have been involved in Lutheran Missouri Synod (3), Lutheran Evangelical (2), Communtity Churches (4), Bible Churches (3), Evangelical Free (2), Baptists (2), as well as the following Bible Teachers on Radio and TV ministries:

Dr. John MacArthur, Jr. - http://www.gty.org/ sermons dating back to the early 70s - free to listen to.
Dr. Adrian Rogers - http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/love-worth-finding/
Dr. Charles Stanley - http://www.intouch.org/
Dr. Richard Lee - First Redeemer Church | Duluth | Cumming | Alpharetta
Dr. Zola Levitt - http://www.levitt.tv/media/watch/118 - some free - videos
Dr. Ed Young - http://www.winningwalk.org/t-bio.aspx
Dr. Gil Rugh - http://www.ihcc.org/ - free sermons dating back to the late 70s - free
Dr. Chuck Swindoll - http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/insight-for-living/
Dr. Walter Martin - https://www.blueletterbible.org/audio_video/martin_walter/
Dr. Ben Haden - Why
Dr. J. Dwight Pentecost - http://www.dts.edu/read/dr-dwight-pentecost-dies-age-99/
Dr. Dave Hunt -

https://www.thebereancall.org/​

Eliezer Urbach, associated with Jews for Jesus - http://www.jewsforjesus.org/publications/realtime/october-2009/09


AND NOT ONE OF THEM HAS EVER TAUGHT grace is a license to sin, ONLY PEOPLE LIKE YOU ACCUSE US OF THOSE LIES.

 

[Magenta]

When you say there is NOTHING the believer can say, or do, or think to lose his salvation you are making the grace of God a license to do anything.

Are you saying I have said this? Please show me where. On the other hand, we just both remarked to each other about justification and sanctification. If you are already justified and sanctified, does that mean you reject that, aside from being positionally sanctified (set apart), there is no process you go through to become progressively more Christ like? I thought your whole position was based on such a premise. It is funny you call yourself (and everyone else!) a spiritual idiot, but then turn around and say you can recognize true believers by certain qualities, when you have also said that everything can be faked (except the love of God). John spoke about telling us things so that we would KNOW we have eternal life, which means we are saved, and can know it. A believer is sealed by the Holy Spirit of God. We are promised that He would not lose any given to Him, that He would complete the work begun in us. I don't see that as a license to sin when God gives us new desires. I wonder why you keep brushing these truths of Scripture aside.

 

[preacher4truth]

The Bible speaks very clearly about people who do not continue to believe.

It sure does, all true converts believe always, false converts do not.

I don't. End of story.

Exactly!

 

[PHart]

lol. You make me laugh dude

As long as people proclaim we must obey the law to be saved...

YOU believe that, too. Did you forget, lol? You have said believers WILL, by virtue of faith, produce works. That means you also believe that you have to obey to be saved, and if you don't, then you're showing yourself to not be saved. Are you now going to claim you do not believe this?

...I will continue to share the truth, that perfect obedience is required for that to happen.

I'm pretty sure you have dismissed yourself from that demand for perfection in YOUR belief that saved people have to produce works because that's what faith does, right? So why don't you cut them the same slack?

 

[Hizikyah]

so, while you are waiting to get proven wrong, opps, I mean answered by decon, maybe you will address 1st John 3 v. 22-24, where he explained the commands God expects us to keep

and I am speaking of an actual answer, not throwing out random verses, the Bible does not contradict. so trying to set Scripture against Scripture is a waste of time.

1 John 3:22-24, "And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we guard His commands and do what is pleasing in His sight.And this is His command, that we should believe in the Name of His Son יהושע Messiah and love one another, as He gave us command. And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us."

"And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we guard His commands and do what is pleasing in His sight."

So He will bless us because we obey Him/do what is plaeasing to Him;
James 1:25, "But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it--not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it--they will be blessed in what they do."


"And this is His command, that we should believe in the Name of His Son יהושע Messiah and love one another, as He gave us command. "

He requires us to; Have faith in Messiah Yahshua and have true love for one another; any kind of man made/calculated love is not what is beaing talked about here, love the way Yah says is the only acceptable and real love. see Mat 22:37-40, Romans 13:8-10 and 1 John 5:2-3

"And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us"

By doing this we are inside His will and His Spirit is upon us; thus blessed, watched over, guided, etc. by Him.
Acts 5:32

 

[gb9]

1 John 3:22-24, "And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we guard His commands and do what is pleasing in His sight.And this is His command, that we should believe in the Name of His Son יהושע Messiah and love one another, as He gave us command. And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us."

"And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we guard His commands and do what is pleasing in His sight."

So He will bless us because we obey Him/do what is plaeasing to Him;
James 1:25, "But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it--not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it--they will be blessed in what they do."


"And this is His command, that we should believe in the Name of His Son יהושע Messiah and love one another, as He gave us command. "

He requires us to; Have faith in Messiah Yahshua and have true love for one another; any kind of man made/calculated love is not what is beaing talked about here, love the way Yah says is the only acceptable and real love. see Mat 22:37-40, Romans 13:8-10 and 1 John 5:2-3

"And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us"

By doing this we are inside His will and His Spirit is upon us; thus blessed, watched over, guided, etc. by Him.
Acts 5:32

o.k. no argument with this.

 

[PHart]

I don't. End of story.

Exactly!

Uh, oh.....the sign of desperation. Quoting out of context.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

YOU believe that, too. Did you forget, lol? You have said believers WILL, by virtue of faith, produce works. That means you also believe that you have to obey to be saved, and if you don't, then you're showing yourself to not be saved. Are you now going to claim you do not believe this?

STOP, How far are you willing to go with your slander?

I believe people who have faith ARE saved, and BECAUSE they are saved, they have works, they are not saved BECAUSE of their works, they were saved COMPLETELY the moment they had faith before they had 1 work.

I'm pretty sure you have dismissed yourself from that demand for perfection in YOUR belief that saved people have to produce works because that's what faith does, right? So why don't you cut them the same slack?

Yes I have, Thats why I went to christ because I can not live up to his standard.

And again STOP YOUR SLANDER. I DO NOT BELIBE PEOPLE HAVE TO PRODUCE WORKS. I believe THEY WILL

Saying something is required makes it a works based gospel.

Get over yourself and start listening. Or I will have to treat you like you buddy Peter

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Bible speaks very clearly about people who do not continue to believe. And it warns us to not become one of them. So you think those are meaningless, inapplicable warnings. I don't. End of story.

Your right, it does,

1. It calls them antichrists
2. It says they never had faith to begin with. And were never a true part of the church. For if they were a true part. Then never would have left. And rejected christ.

Next.

 

[VCO]

"You who are trying to be justified by the law..."

How are you missing this right in your own quote, lol?

The only thing forbidden about law keeping is trying to be justified by it. They are NOT doing that. They seek to be observant for the same reason we (sometimes) seek to not be jealous, not be envious, not be hateful, etc. How are you people missing this? Are you choosing not to see it, or are you genuinely not capable of seeing it?

Like I said before, if that is the truth, you have a VERY STRANGE WAY OF PHRASING CHRISTIAN TRUTHS.

Personally I ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE, any and all commandments kept for ANY REASON OTHER THAN TO SHOW LOVE FOR HIM, is a Pile of Filthy Rags to GOD.

 

[preacher4truth]

The curse is on those who keep the law to be justified by it

Which is what you teach concerning the law.

Sorry fella, I've not quoted you out of context in desperation as you assert, but in true representation of you and your false gospel.