Not By Works

[loveme1]

Hebrews 3

12Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
15While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. 17But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? 18And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? 19So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.


Many times over I say that is belief...

it is a heart of unbelief that departs from the living GOD...

it is sin that hardens...

so here is something for us to believe:

Matthew 5


27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thatthy whole body should be cast into hell. 30And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.



It is through Believing the Lord that GOD strengthens us to strive against sin each and every day...

Be a doer of the Royal Law... and be judged by the law of liberty..

Christ is the source of eternal Salvation to those that obey Him..

None of us know what the day will bring but know through Faith in Christ our Lord goodness will prevail...

 

[posthuman]

It must be easy to make your point when you can change the words.
The word "fall" should read "fallen"...past tense.

nope.


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[TABLE="class: maintext, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]5302 [e][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]hysterountai[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ὑστεροῦνται[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]fall short[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]V-PIM/P-3P[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Parsing Key
Part of Speech: Verb

Tense: Present
Mood: Indicative
Voice: Middle or Passive

Person: 3rd Person
Number: Plural



[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]

ISV actually has this translated particularly clearly:

all have sinned and continue to fall short of God's glory

​

((not that you changing the words actually made your point any easier))

 

[posthuman]

only those who still commit sin are lying if they say they have no sin.

Those who walk in the light, (which is God), have had all their sins washed away by the blood of Christ.

John says:

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
​

why?
who is John, and who is he writing to, and when?

 

[posthuman]

It is actually separation of the fleshly from the spiritual. (paraphrased}

separating the spirit from the flesh is easy.

like fred said - we're tripartite. no amount of thirds gives you "half" of one.
Jesus said don't fear the one who can kill the body; fear the one who can send the soul to hell - what's the difference there? what do you have to be able to divide in order to kill the body? what about to send the soul to hell? what power does basically any creature have - being able to kill the body - and what power does only that One who is worthy have, that creatures lack?

separating the spirit from the flesh doesn't make the Word of God special. my car separates the spirit from the flesh of dozens of insects on most trips it takes of any appreciable distance. and it doesn't have to be taken that literally, either (though scripture does speak of it in that sense) - what buddhist, what yogi, what shaman or sybil isn't separating spirit and corporeal? what new-ager of any stripe or girth doesn't divide spiritual things from tangible ones? what is superstition?

of course the Word cuts flesh from spirit. but that's not half of what the sword of His mouth can do

 

[Seohce]

Notice to Seohce: this post is, "Abusive and Rude", which is a violation of Christianchat.com rules. Your post has been copied and reported to the Moderator's. I will tell you again, "Cease and Desist", from responding to my post's, if you do not I will report you to the Moderator's again.
And for the record you are not a very nice person.

Quote: My post to Decon, I was not even speaking to Seoheo, and he has been on my Ignore list for 3 or 4 months.

Originally Posted by TruthTalk

Hi Decon, all of your post's here present a simple clear and true gospel which is how it is represented in the Holy Scriptures; to subtract from or add to what the bible say's about our eternal salvation is a sin. Thank you for your ministry and be well migo...

New International Version 1984 Hebrews 4:12-13 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

 

[posthuman]

Look to the example of Stephen.

yes, have a look. not once in his speech did he mention himself.

he spoke of the coming of "The Righteous One" - singular. ((Acts 7:52))

our lives are righteous - just as Stephens - not because of us, because The Righteous One is in our lives. i do not live without sin - Christ, without sin, lives in me. this is by grace - which Stephen was full of ((Acts 6:8)) - and power, not Stephen's power, but God's power, which is perfected in our weakness. it is His pleasure that we are weak: He has constrained all under sin ((Romans 11:32)) in order to show mercy on all.

think that's an 'excuse' to run after sin? then you still don't understand me.

 

[posthuman]

The mamby-pamby milk toast folks have forgotten they are at war.
I strive against sin.

i study swordsmanship.
it's stupid to attack your opponent's weapon. instead, strike him directly, and in such a way that his attacks are voided or parried, because it is also stupid to forget the sharpness of his point, which can cut you even after he has been run through.
the fact of striving reveals a necessity to do so!

 

[Seohce]

The only thing I argue with is your misapplication of scripture, lack of understanding and working for sinless dogma.....NEXT

GOD LOOKS AT THE HEART AND EXPOSES IT’S MOTIVES

1 Corinthians 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and WILL EXPOSE THE MOTIVES OF MEN’S HEART. At that time each will receive his praise from God.

WHEN YOU ARE OFFENDED WITH THE SCRIPTURES A POSTER SHARES, YOUR COMMENT WILL BE IS THAT THEY LACK KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING AS IF YOU HAVE.

1 Corinthians 4:6-7 Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another. For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?

HERE’S AN EXAMPLE OF A MAN WHO LACKS UNDERSTANDING:WHO WOULD NOT ACCEPT BUT ENJOYS REJECTING THE TRUTH.

Originally Posted by dcontroversal View Post
Not hardly...polar opposites....THERE IS NO COMMANDMENT THAT LEADS TO LIFE.....and failing to keep the law does not result in the loss of salvation nor does it help keep salvation.....Galatians 1 and 3 states it is a false gospel with no power.

MY REPLY:

The 10 commandments are God's words and God is LOVE (1 john 4:8&16) and LOVE is the fulfillment of the law, and LOVE for God is to OBEY His commandments.

Matthew 19:17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.”

CONSIDERING DCON’S POST ABOVE(bolded) AND WHAT JESUS WAS SAYING IN MATTHEW CHAPTER 19, I PRAY THAT EVERYONE WOULD TAKE HEED OF OUR LORDS COMMANDS OVER DECEIVERS WHO WERE LONG AGO BEEN PROPHESIED TO APPEAR IN THE LAST DAYS.

Matthew 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.

2 Timothy 4:2-4 Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, TO SUIT THEIR OWN DESIRES, they will gather around them a great number of TEACHERS TO SUIT WHAT THEIR ITCHING EARS WANT TO HEAR. They will turn their ears AWAY FROM THE TRUTH and turn aside to myths.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?

John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. the words i have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

Jeremiah 36:2 “Take a scroll and write on it all the words I have spoken to you concerning Israel, Judah and all the other nations from the time I began speaking to you in the reign of Josiah till now.

John 1:1-5 The Word Became Flesh In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

Dcon’s dismissive remarks:

Tell ya what......you keep thinking that works and law keeping and thinking you are sinless will get you there....

I will keep believing that JESUS by grace through faith has saved me, sealed me, justified me and sanctified me eternally while placing ALL emphasis upon JESUS, HIS works, His power and His promises....

I am not going to argue your working for, law keeping, sinless perfectionist dogma any longer....

Please do me a favor....block me or do not address me any longer....you have proven to twist, embellish, attempted to shift focus, refused solid truth, misrepresented what we all teach, been deceptive in your approach and I am done with you....

AND THAT’S ALL HE CAN DO AND SAY BUT REFUSE TO ANSWER A SIMPLE QUESTION WITH A YES OR NO.

Romans 6:21-22 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are NOW ASHAMED OF? Those things result in death! But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.

DO YOU EVER GET ASHAMED OF BEING A SINNER IN THE PAST OR ARE YOU PROUD THAT YOU ARE STILL ONE OF THEM NOW?

ARE YOU STILL A SINNER YES or NO?



Malachi 2:17 The Day of Judgment You have wearied the Lord with your words. “How have we wearied him?” you ask. By saying, “ALL WHO DO EVIL ARE GOOD INTHE EYES OF THE LORD, AND HE IS PLEASED WITH THEM” or “Where is the God of justice?”

Malachi 3:13-18 “You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. WHAT DID WE GAIN BY CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then THOSE WHO FEARED THE LORD talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and HONORED HIS NAME. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE RIGHTEOUS AND THE WICKED, between those WHO SERVE GOD and those WHO DO NOT.

Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and TEACHING THEM TO OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: FEAR GOD AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, for this is the whole duty of man. For GOD WILL BRING EVERY DEED INTO JUDGMENT, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.

 

[posthuman]

Your "logic" is an excuse to keep committing sin.

wasn't the accusation that preaching grace = preaching licentiousness dealt with > 40,000 posts ago in this thread?

Paul dealt with it thousands of years ago - Romans 3:8, 6:1 etc. it's a well supported argument, in fact, that if you aren't accused of a doctrine that makes excuses to keep committing sin, you aren't presenting the gospel correctly! so thank you! this is good evidence that the gospel is being preached in this thread! hallelujah! those who murdered Stephen falsely said he was preaching against the law! ((Acts 6:13))

 

[Seohce]

Notice to this thread: After sending Decon a thank you for posting a simple, clear and true gospel, I was shocked but not surprised to get a rude and demeaning post from Seohce. I reckon Seohce is pronouncing this curse on me so the I have reported him and copied this verse for the Moderators to see. Also be warned if you happened to say something that Seohce does not like, you may get a post like this one from him.



Notice to Seohce: this post is, "Abusive and Rude", which is a violation of Christianchat.com rules. Your post has been copied and reported to the Moderator's. I will tell you again, "Cease and Desist", from responding to my post's, if you do not I will report you to the Moderator's again. And for the record you are not a very nice person.

Quote: My post to Decon, I was not even speaking to Seoheo, and he has been on my Ignore list for 3 or 4 months.

Originally Posted by TruthTalk

Hi Decon, all of your post's here present a simple clear and true gospel which is how it is represented in the Holy Scriptures; to subtract from or add to what the bible say's about our eternal salvation is a sin. Thank you for your ministry and be well migo...

THE WORD OF GOD, THE GOSPEL, SCRIPTURES IS NEVER ABUSIVE OR RUDE.

2 Timothy 3:15-17 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Titus 1:15-16 to the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.

YOU CAN HAVE EVERYONE WHO ACKNOWLEDGE THE TRUTH AND GO AGAINST FALSE DOCTRINES, BANNED ANYTIME BUT YOU CAN NEVER PUT TO SHAME THOSE WHO TRUST IN GOD.

Jude 1:17-25 A Call to Persevere But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit. But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit. Keep yourselves in God’s love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life. Be merciful to those who doubt; snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh. Doxology To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

 

[loveme1]

2 Corinthians 13

[h=1]2 Corinthians 13King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]13 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 I told you before, and foretell you, as if I were present, the second time; and being absent now I write to them which heretofore have sinned, and to all other, that, if I come again, I will not spare:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4 For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 Greet one another with an holy kiss.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 All the saints salute you.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.


I just read this after reading Seohce’s post..

Is it really written to be perfect? And those that have sinned had better watch out.. yet look at the Love reeling off .. wishing for their perfection.


I love verse 14... Grace of Christ and the Love of GOD and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with us all... may it be so.[/FONT]

 

[notmyown]

DO YOU EVER GET ASHAMED OF BEING A SINNER IN THE PAST OR ARE YOU PROUD THAT YOU ARE STILL ONE OF THEM NOW?

i might need to brush up on it, but does this sound like a logical fallacy to anyone else?

i.e., these are not the only two possible choices?

 

[stonesoffire]

separating the spirit from the flesh is easy.

like fred said - we're tripartite. no amount of thirds gives you "half" of one.
Jesus said don't fear the one who can kill the body; fear the one who can send the soul to hell - what's the difference there? what do you have to be able to divide in order to kill the body? what about to send the soul to hell? what power does basically any creature have - being able to kill the body - and what power does only that One who is worthy have, that creatures lack?

separating the spirit from the flesh doesn't make the Word of God special. my car separates the spirit from the flesh of dozens of insects on most trips it takes of any appreciable distance. and it doesn't have to be taken that literally, either (though scripture does speak of it in that sense) - what buddhist, what yogi, what shaman or sybil isn't separating spirit and corporeal? what new-ager of any stripe or girth doesn't divide spiritual things from tangible ones? what is superstition?

of course the Word cuts flesh from spirit. but that's not half of what the sword of His mouth can do

but that's not half of what the sword of His mouth can do

Amen!

 

[stonesoffire]

yes, have a look. not once in his speech did he mention himself.

he spoke of the coming of "The Righteous One" - singular. ((Acts 7:52))

our lives are righteous - just as Stephens - not because of us, because The Righteous One is in our lives. i do not live without sin - Christ, without sin, lives in me. this is by grace - which Stephen was full of ((Acts 6:8)) - and power, not Stephen's power, but God's power, which is perfected in our weakness. it is His pleasure that we are weak: He has constrained all under sin ((Romans 11:32)) in order to show mercy on all.

think that's an 'excuse' to run after sin? then you still don't understand me.

or any of us who have been saying the same thing, though each in our different ways. Still the same message. We are the righteousness of God IN Christ Jesus.

The position of security, and then worked out by Holy Spirit; from the inside out.

I just don't understand the seemingly blindness to the message. What's the block?

 

[stonesoffire]

If He made us worthy, are we not worthy?

As for "in Him", or "in Christ", words written scores of times in the NT, how is it possible to do anything outside of Christ if we are in fact "in Him"?
We can't.
So that eliminates the sinner from claiming they are "in Him".

I was being tormented by thoughts from the enemy. Just newly born again and was listening to a message I think. Must of heard something wrong or twisted by the enemy in my mind, if the word was right. Was back in 1972...

But, I was hearing...you aren't worthy, will never be worthy...

His exact words to me. "You aren't, but I have made you worthy". This is the saber sword of His mouth that cuts off the head, or the power, of the lying spirits.

 

[TruthTalk]

New International Version 1984 Hebrews 4:12-13 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Notice to this thread: I have asked Seoche to, "Cease and Desist", from responding to my post, which he continues to ignore.

Notice to Seoche: Since you have ignored my request to "Cease and Desist" I am reporting this post of yours to the Moderator's as harassment. Again you are not a nice person and I whatever you say about the bible is void and invalid.

Previous Post from Seoche:

Originally Posted by Seohce

Psalm 49:13-14 This is the fate of those who trust in themselves, and of their followers, who approve their sayings. "Selah Like sheep they are destined for the grave, and death will feed on them." The upright will rule over them in the morning; their forms will decay in the grave, far from their princely mansions.

 

[stonesoffire]

I can understand frustration TruthTalk, but am not sure you have that right to tell another not to post a reply to yours.

Isn't it the purpose of this thread to discuss with any member?

Is there a rule that says we are allowed to do this?

 

[stonesoffire]

Wouldn't our option be to put someone on ignore?

 

[tourist]

Notice to this thread: I have asked Seoche to, "Cease and Desist", from responding to my post, which he continues to ignore.

Notice to Seoche: Since you have ignored my request to "Cease and Desist" I am reporting this post of yours to the Moderator's as harassment. Again you are not a nice person and I whatever you say about the bible is void and invalid.

Previous Post from Seoche:

Originally Posted by Seohce

Psalm 49:13-14 This is the fate of those who trust in themselves, and of their followers, who approve their sayings. "Selah Like sheep they are destined for the grave, and death will feed on them." The upright will rule over them in the morning; their forms will decay in the grave, far from their princely mansions.

Any member can reply to any post as that is the nature of this site. That's just the way it is.

 

[garee]

From my perspective . We most certainly are saved by works . They are simply not of our own-selves . unless someone boast according to false pride. Faith our new, is the gift of God.It does not come without the work of God.

It’s his faith that works in us just as it did in Abraham and Rehab two examples as to how we can have a imputed righteousness that does work in us to both will and do His good pleasure. Making the faith of God as the work of God perfect..complete.. It would seem that many do not want to attribute the works of our faithful Creator to the Creator but rather in respect the creature. (self righteousness)

So it’s not do we need works .But who performs the whole work?. Do we work to gain it or does it work in us?
It boils down to work out that which is freely given, the faith of, Christ , that works in us . Or do we according to our flesh work for it in order to receive the Spirit of Christ, as the faith that comes from hearing God?

I would think no man could serve two masters? Self-serving or serve Christ? Work for to gain, as a dead work, or work out aliving faith as he who is of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul pleases?