Not By Works

[Snoozy]

im a simple man. im a dumb meathead idiot.
i like simple stuff.

i think the gospel is simple. how many jumps and hoops do u need.

how can u go soul-winning if u dont believe in salvation by grace thru faith???? whats the point. instead of preaching the gospel u can go preach to churches "stay saved, dont sin, stay saved"

 

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."[/FONT]

 

[Hizikyah]

When did I respond to you for you to post the above?

you replied directly after my post, if you were no reply to me I apologize.

 

[dcontroversal]

im a simple man. im a dumb meathead idiot.
i like simple stuff.

i think the gospel is simple. how many jumps and hoops do u need.

how can u go soul-winning if u dont believe in salvation by grace thru faith???? whats the point. instead of preaching the gospel u can go preach to churches "stay saved, dont sin, stay saved"

Exactly why many lose hope and or feel like they cannot make the cut.....because all of these workers for, law keepers and sinless perfectionists lay conditions upon these new converts or lost men that they cannot possibly expect to meet.....The bible speaks of the simplicity that is found in Christ and it is a simple thing to believe and be saved.

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. <---THIS IS the simplicity that is found in Christ

 

[dcontroversal]

you replied directly after my post, if you were no reply to me I apologize.

No need to apologize....these threads move so fast.........It is all good migo

 

[Hizikyah]

SO is the Law of YHWH mediated by Messiah Yahshua/Jesus the proper way to live after one has accepted Messiah?

The law was designed to prove guilt and shut every man's mouth and it's job was to show us we cannot live up to God's standard and point us to the cure....the righteousness of Christ imputed without the law by faith...when the Heavenly Father looks at me he sees the righteousness of Christ..........

So is that a yes or no?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of Yah?"[/FONT]

 

[Hizikyah]

SO is the Law of YHWH mediated by Messiah Yahshua/Jesus the proper way to live after one has accepted Messiah?

How do you live by it (whatever you think it is) following the letter, or out of faith and love?

"The letter" can be twisted, truly folloiwn the Law of YHWH as best a human can one will walk in its true intent or spirit, but just as people over over literalize and twist the letter, people can also over spirituallize and twist the intent.

, you responded to his post where he said justification, so it would be assumed you were answering that

OK, again my apologies, I was also not responding to justification, just as he said his was not a response to my post, I was simply promoting that it is good to be obediend in the walk weith Messiah.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"The letter" can be twisted, truly folloiwn the Law of YHWH as best a human can one will walk in its true intent or spirit, but just as people over over literalize and twist the letter, people can also over spirituallize and twist the intent.



OK, again my apologies, I was also not responding to justification, just as he said his was not a response to my post, I was simply promoting that it is good to be obediend in the walk weith Messiah.

Even if the letter is not tristed, how powerful is it to help you overcome sin? And obey God?

and thanks for apology,

 

[notmyown]

SO is the Law of YHWH mediated by Messiah Yahshua/Jesus...

may i ask a dumb question? (perhaps the only kind i can ask. ha!)

i snipped your post just to eliminate any confusion over what i'm asking, i hope you don't mind.

why did you word it the way you did? i'm perplexed, but want to leave the question at that, so as to neither accuse nor lead an answer.

thank you!

 

[Hizikyah]

SO is the Law of YHWH mediated by Messiah Yahshua/Jesus the proper way to live after one has accepted Messiah?

How do you live by it (whatever you think it is) following the letter, or out of faith and love?

Even if the letter is not tristed, how powerful is it to help you overcome sin? And obey God?

and thanks for apology,

OK so you di not ask that in your last question, the Law shows us what righteousness is and what sin is.

Some Laws are do notdo bad things

and

some Laws are do right things.

His spirit empoweres us just like the verse I posted to you in my last 2 posts.;

Ezekiel 36:26-28, "A new heart, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."


Romans 12:1-2, “I call upon you, therefore, brothers, through the compassion of Yah, to present your bodies a living offering – set-apart, well-pleasing to Yah – your reasonable worship. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you prove what is that good and well-pleasing and perfect desire of Yah.”


1 John 3:4-6, "Everyone doing sin also does lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin." Everyone staying in Him does not sin. Everyone sinning has neither seen Him nor known Him.”


1 John 2:4, "The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."


2 Timothy 2:19-21, “However, the solid foundation of Yah stands firm, having this seal, “יהוה knows those who are His, and, let everyone who names the Name of Messiah turn away from unrighteousness. But in a large house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some unto value and some unto no value. If, then, anyone cleanses himself from these matters, he shall be a vessel unto value, having been set apart, of good use to the Master, having been prepared for every good work.”


Romans 7:25, “Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.”

 

[Seohce]

Exactly why many lose hope and or feel like they cannot make the cut.....because all of these workers for, law keepers and sinless perfectionists lay conditions upon these new converts or lost men that THEY CANNOT POSSIBLY EXPECT TO MEET.....The bible speaks of the simplicity that is found in Christ and it is a simple thing to believe and be saved.

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. <---THIS IS the simplicity that is found in Christ

Matthew 19:26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

John 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

Romans 10:14-15 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY TEACHING DISOBEDIENCE WHICH IS AN UTTER REJECTION OF GOD'S WORDS AND COMMANDS.

Romans 1:32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Psalm 49:13-14 This is the fate of those who trust in themselves, and of their followers, who approve their sayings. Selah Like sheep they are destined for the grave, and death will feed on them. The upright will rule over them in the morning; their forms will decay in the grave, far from their princely mansions.

Malachi 2:17 The Day of Judgment You have wearied the Lord with your words. “How have we wearied him?” you ask. By saying, “All who do evil are good in the eyes of the Lord, and he is pleased with them” or “Where is the God of justice?"

Malachi 3:13-18 “You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.

 

[Hizikyah]

may i ask a dumb question? (perhaps the only kind i can ask. ha!)

i snipped your post just to eliminate any confusion over what i'm asking, i hope you don't mind.

why did you word it the way you did? i'm perplexed, but want to leave the question at that, so as to neither accuse nor lead an answer.

thank you!

No worries!

the levitical priesthood USED to mediate the Law between the people anfd YHWH, Yahshua/Jesus is now High priest;

1 Timothy 2:5, "For One is YHWH; and One Mediator between YHWH and men: the Man, Yahshua Messiah."

1 Timothy 2:5, "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man[a] Christ Jesus."

Romans 8:34, "Who is he who is condemning? It is Messiah who died, and furthermore is also raised up, who is also at the right hand of YHWH, who also makes intercession for us."

Hebrews 7:13, “For He of whom this is said belongs to another tribe, from which no one had attended at the Altar. For it is perfectly clear that our Master arose from Yehuḏah, a tribe about which Mosheh never spoke of concerning priesthood.”

Hebrews 7:23-28, “And indeed, those that became priests were many, because they were prevented by death from continuing, but He, because He remains forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. Therefore He is also able to save completely those who draw near to Yah through Him, ever living to make intercession for them. For it was fitting that we should have such a High Priest – kind, innocent, undefiled, having been separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens, who does not need, as those high priests, to offer up slaughter offerings day by day, first for His own sins and then for those of the people, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. For the Torah appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath which came after the Torah, appoints the Son having been perfected forever.”

Romans 7:25, “Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.”

 

[VCO]

Exactly why many lose hope and or feel like they cannot make the cut.....because all of these workers for, law keepers and sinless perfectionists lay conditions upon these new converts or lost men that they cannot possibly expect to meet.....The bible speaks of the simplicity that is found in Christ and it is a simple thing to believe and be saved.

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. <---THIS IS the simplicity that is found in Christ

And those preaching a false gospel of works righteousness are in a round about way, teaching people, "You do not have to take the Bible literally." Am I not right, that then becomes a snowball rolling down hill, getting bigger and bigger, until it crushes their faith?

 

[notmyown]

No worries!

the levitical priesthood USED to mediate the Law between the people anfd YHWH, Yahshua/Jesus is now High priest;

again, i apologize, just trying to save space.

i guess i need to ask what you mean by mediate?

 

[dcontroversal]

Matthew 19:26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

John 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

Romans 10:14-15 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY TEACHING DISOBEDIENCE WHICH IS AN UTTER REJECTION OF GOD'S WORDS AND COMMANDS.

Romans 1:32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Psalm 49:13-14 This is the fate of those who trust in themselves, and of their followers, who approve their sayings. Selah Like sheep they are destined for the grave, and death will feed on them. The upright will rule over them in the morning; their forms will decay in the grave, far from their princely mansions.

Malachi 2:17 The Day of Judgment You have wearied the Lord with your words. “How have we wearied him?” you ask. By saying, “All who do evil are good in the eyes of the Lord, and he is pleased with them” or “Where is the God of justice?"

Malachi 3:13-18 “You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.

Get right and quit lying and falsely accusing....more proof you cannot keep that which you push and espouse dogmatically

 

[dcontroversal]

And those preaching a false gospel of works righteousness are in a round about way, teaching people, "You do not have to take the Bible literally." Am I not right, that then becomes a snowball rolling down hill, getting bigger and bigger, until it crushes their faith?

Amen and look at the false accusation mid-post 44891....a worker for that cannot help but sin regularly.....

 

[Hizikyah]

again, i apologize, just trying to save space.

i guess i need to ask what you mean by mediate?

No need to apologize, you are very respecful and I have taken nothing you have said as bad , offensive, rude, etc. and ask what I think is quality and interesting questions.

First the definition;

1 Timothy 2:5, "For One is YHWH; and One Mediator between YHWH and men: the Man, Yahshua Messiah."
1 Timothy 2:5, "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man[a] Christ Jesus."

Mediator is word Original Word: μεσίτης, ου, ὁ Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine Transliteration: mesités Phonetic Spelling: (mes-ee'-tace) Short Definition: a mediator, go-between Definition: (a) a mediator, intermediary, (b) a go-between, arbiter, agent of something good.

SO YHWH is perfect in righteousness and turns His face and ears when someone is in sin:

Psalm 66:18, "If I have seen wickedness in my heart, יהוה would not hear."

John/Yahanan 17:9, "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world, but for those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours."

1 Peter/Kepha 3:12, "For the eyes of YHWH are on the righteous, and His ears are open to their prayers; but the face of YHWH is against those who do evil."

Proverbs 15:29, "YHWH is far from the wicked, but He hears the prayer of the righteous."

Micah 3:4, "Therefore, when they cry to יהוה He does not answer them, and hides His face from them at that time, as they have made their deeds evil."

Isaiah 1:15, “And when you spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.”

Proverbs 1:28-29, "“Let them then call on me, but I answer not; Let them seek me, but not find me. Because they hated knowledge And did not choose the fear of יהוה,"

Isaiah 57:17, "“For the crookedness of his unfair gain I was wroth and I struck him. I hid Myself and was wroth, and he went on backsliding in the way of his heart."

Proverbs 28:9, “He who turns away his ear from hearing the Torah, Even his prayer is an abomination.”

Psalms 51:10-11, “Create in me a clean heart, O Mighty One, And renew a steadfast spirit within me. Do not cast me away from Your presence, And do not take Your Set-apart Spirit from me.”

WIth Yahshua as HIgh Priset he is able to present us blameless to YHWH if we stay in Him, not that we will never sin but he is able to obtain mercy on our behalf as He is the Passover:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us."[/FONT]

Romans 8:34, "Who is he who is condemning? It is Messiah who died, and furthermore is also raised up, who is also at the right hand of YHWH, who also makes intercession for us."

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Corinthians 5:7-8, "Therefore cleanse out the old leaven, so that you are a new lump, as you are unleavened. For also Messiah our Passover was offered for us. So then let us observe the festival, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of evil and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth."[/FONT]

1 Timothy 2:5, "For One is YHWH; and One Mediator between YHWH and men: the Man, Yahshua Messiah."

Jude 1:20-25, “But you, beloved ones, building yourselves up on your most set-apart belief, praying in the Set-apart Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of YHWH, looking for the compassion of our Master יהושע Messiah unto everlasting life. And show compassion toward some who are doubting, but others save with fear, snatching them out of the fire, hating, even the garment defiled by the flesh. And to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to present you blameless before the presence of His esteem with exceeding joy, to the only wise Master, our Saviour, be esteem and greatness and might and authority, both now and forever. Awmĕin.”

2 John/Yahanan 1:9, "Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of the Messiah, does not have Yah. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son."

 

[Bogadile]

Exactly why many lose hope and or feel like they cannot make the cut.....because all of these workers for, law keepers and sinless perfectionists lay conditions upon these new converts or lost men that they cannot possibly expect to meet.....The bible speaks of the simplicity that is found in Christ and it is a simple thing to believe and be saved.

It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. <---THIS IS the simplicity that is found in Christ

I heard a street preacher who said one sin and you lost your salvation. Saved one moment, lost the next, saved then again and on and on....

That kind of preaching causes people to delve deeper into sin. They fall into despair and figure that since they are already lost might as well....

 

[VCO]

i just realized it

everyone agrees that ur saved by believing the Gospel. but where the difference comes is that some of us say we are kept by the Holy Spirit and God's love enters our hearts to will and to do His good deeds.

but then the other side says that no u must do this and that to "stay saved" or u wont make it. so i feel like to them its kinda contradictory to say that u gotta just believe the Gospel to be saved and repent but then its not enough because u gotta do this and that to stay saved. well that means u never were saved to begin with, but instead u are just waiting to make it in the future if u live good enough.

YES, HE SAVED ME from myself by giving me SALVATION by HIS Grace (what I cannot earn and do not deserve), pouring HIS LOVE in my human spirit, thus out of that love I continually want to do what pleases HIM.

They may say He gave them faith, but they also say, they personally have to do good works to KEEP it or they permanently lose it.

I THANK GOD THAT JESUS DID IT ALL FOR ME, SAVED ME, GAVE ME FAITH AND HIS LOVE, which produces in me, godly Love for HIM, and HE IS THE ONE WHO KEEPS ME SAVED. Because I would lose my Salvation for sure.

 

[VCO]

what does perfect mean in the bible seohce?

I know, I know, but I go to the same kind of Church you do. His answer should be interesting.