Not By Works
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Don't misunderstand. We know that the sanctified people he is talking about in the passage are born again people. We know that from the context of the passage:
The sanctified person (saved person--see vs. 10 & 14) who tramples on the blood of Christ in a contemptuous return to the world in unbelief will suffer a fate worse than physical death. He will be destroyed along with the enemies of God, not saved with the people of God as expected.
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You lose your salvation by unbelief. And because you no longer believe you are condemned by your sins, not saved from them while you believed in Christ. Get the argument straight.
You must believe to continue to have salvation. Not work to maintain it. No amount of work solicits the forgiveness of God. Only believing can do that.
Everyone who believes in Christ is secure in Christ. There is no security outside of Christ. That's why you have to keep believing in Christ.
"God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life." (1 John 5:11-12 NIV)
Whoever gets cut out of Christ because of unbelief no longer has Christ. He who no longer has Christ no longer has eternal life.
You must believe to continue to have salvation. Not work to maintain it. No amount of work solicits the forgiveness of God. Only believing can do that.
Everyone who believes in Christ is secure in Christ. There is no security outside of Christ. That's why you have to keep believing in Christ.
"God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life." (1 John 5:11-12 NIV)
Whoever gets cut out of Christ because of unbelief no longer has Christ. He who no longer has Christ no longer has eternal life.
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Well then say that, do not say that sanctified means born again, that is not true.
So you ignore one whole aspect of the passage. Why is that? vs 14 refutes This view,
Because it says those who are in the process of being sanctified are perfected forever If the salvation could be lost. Then those who are being perfected are not perfected forever. They are not yet perfected at all.
It also is refuted by the fact those who are born again do not sanctify themselves, they are being sanctified by someone else (by him, who perfected them forever)
Then finally, look to vs 29, He did not say how much will we suffer if we trample underfoot. It says how much he will suffer if he.. He is not speaking of US them, but of THEM.
You also have positional sanctification there (vs 10, we are sanctified) and conditional sanctification (vs 14...perfected forever those who are being sanctified)
So you ignore one whole aspect of the passage. Why is that? vs 14 refutes This view,
Because it says those who are in the process of being sanctified are perfected forever If the salvation could be lost. Then those who are being perfected are not perfected forever. They are not yet perfected at all.
It also is refuted by the fact those who are born again do not sanctify themselves, they are being sanctified by someone else (by him, who perfected them forever)
Then finally, look to vs 29, He did not say how much will we suffer if we trample underfoot. It says how much he will suffer if he.. He is not speaking of US them, but of THEM.
You also have positional sanctification there (vs 10, we are sanctified) and conditional sanctification (vs 14...perfected forever those who are being sanctified)
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If you do not believe you are condemne4d for your sins, You never repented to begin with.
Get your FACTS straight.
You must HAVE FAITH in order to BE SAVED. Faith does not go away,. Unless one loses trust in the one you are trusting.
Your faith is in your ability, not in Gods work./
Everyone who has eternal life is secure in christ, as John said, I write these things so you may KNOW you HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, for this is the basis by which one continues ot believe.
if you do not KNOW you have eternal life. You have no hope. Your believe will fail.
No one4 gets cut out, if they can get cut off, they have to earn it.
learn the difference between a gift and reward.
Get your FACTS straight.
You must HAVE FAITH in order to BE SAVED. Faith does not go away,. Unless one loses trust in the one you are trusting.
Your faith is in your ability, not in Gods work./
Everyone who has eternal life is secure in christ, as John said, I write these things so you may KNOW you HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, for this is the basis by which one continues ot believe.
if you do not KNOW you have eternal life. You have no hope. Your believe will fail.
No one4 gets cut out, if they can get cut off, they have to earn it.
learn the difference between a gift and reward.
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Only if you mean screw it up by stop believing and going back to the world as a result.
The reason the (ex) believer starts getting condemned by his sin again is because of his return to unbelief, not because he sinned again. Good Lord, if that were true we'd all be screwed. But as it is our responsibility is to keep clinging to the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin to be saved, not work to earn salvation.
Correct. And that faith (the ability to know the gospel that we can't see is true) is given to us as a free gift by God so we will then place our trust in what we can't see and be saved. God gives the faith, we respond with our trust. That's not a works gospel folks. That is THE gospel.
Get it straight: Salvation is maintained by your TRUSTING, not in the performance of righteous work. Trusting is signified by a lifestyle of obedience and the struggle with sin, just as unbelief is signified by a lifestyle of willful sin.
The person who willfully sins thinking he is free to do that because of Christ's forgiveness is treating the blood of Christ that sanctified him with contempt. He will be destroyed on the Day of His Wrath, not saved. No OSAS confession of (so called) faith will save him on that day. No confession of the greatness of his mercy and grace (as awesome as those are) will save him because he has shown by his behavior that he has treated his mercy and grace with contemptuous unbelief.
The reason the (ex) believer starts getting condemned by his sin again is because of his return to unbelief, not because he sinned again. Good Lord, if that were true we'd all be screwed. But as it is our responsibility is to keep clinging to the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin to be saved, not work to earn salvation.
Correct. And that faith (the ability to know the gospel that we can't see is true) is given to us as a free gift by God so we will then place our trust in what we can't see and be saved. God gives the faith, we respond with our trust. That's not a works gospel folks. That is THE gospel.
Get it straight: Salvation is maintained by your TRUSTING, not in the performance of righteous work. Trusting is signified by a lifestyle of obedience and the struggle with sin, just as unbelief is signified by a lifestyle of willful sin.
The person who willfully sins thinking he is free to do that because of Christ's forgiveness is treating the blood of Christ that sanctified him with contempt. He will be destroyed on the Day of His Wrath, not saved. No OSAS confession of (so called) faith will save him on that day. No confession of the greatness of his mercy and grace (as awesome as those are) will save him because he has shown by his behavior that he has treated his mercy and grace with contemptuous unbelief.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us." [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Yahanan/John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of YHWH: When we love YHWH by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of YHWH: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 6:16, "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves servants for obedience, you are servants of the one whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?"[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us." [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Yahanan/John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of YHWH: When we love YHWH by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of YHWH: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 6:16, "Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves servants for obedience, you are servants of the one whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?"[/FONT]
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You do not maintain your salvation by the merit of doing righteous works. You maintain it the exact same way you received it in the first place--through your trust in Christ's blood for the forgiveness of sin.
If the church had faith in this they'd stop watching, for example, 'Game of Thrones' and other salacious programming and they'd be signified by a turning away from sin, not by the willful indulging of it. But as it is, much of the sanctified church is presently in contempt of the blood of Christ in a 'OSAS' fueled lifestyle of willful unbelief and sin, and if they do not come to their senses and turn back to Christ in a genuine trust in the blood of Christ they will be lost on the day of His wrath, not saved as expected.
If the church had faith in this they'd stop watching, for example, 'Game of Thrones' and other salacious programming and they'd be signified by a turning away from sin, not by the willful indulging of it. But as it is, much of the sanctified church is presently in contempt of the blood of Christ in a 'OSAS' fueled lifestyle of willful unbelief and sin, and if they do not come to their senses and turn back to Christ in a genuine trust in the blood of Christ they will be lost on the day of His wrath, not saved as expected.
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The believer is perfected forever in that no future sacrifice of sin is necessary for future sin. The one time sacrifice of Jesus remains on the altar to always be there to keep the believer legally perfect before the Father (unlike the old covenant sacrifices). That's why we have to keep believing, so that the continual ministry of Christ and his sacrifice remains applied to us and always interceding on our behalf before the Father (Hebrews 7:25).
We all know this. The argument is that the justification/sanctification we have in Christ is secured by our faith. Just because he did it all doesn't mean we don't have to believe/trust in it to receive it. And last time I checked, believing/trusting is not among the works that constitute the self righteous effort to earn justification/salvation. In fact, believing is the ONLY thing that can get justification apart from works. Believing is hardly a work of self righteousness, lol.
The text PLAINLY says it is the sanctified person who tramples the blood of Christ who will be condemned with the enemies of God. And the author PLAINLY defined the sanctified person he is talking about as being born again (vs.10 & 14).
We all know this. The argument is that the justification/sanctification we have in Christ is secured by our faith. Just because he did it all doesn't mean we don't have to believe/trust in it to receive it. And last time I checked, believing/trusting is not among the works that constitute the self righteous effort to earn justification/salvation. In fact, believing is the ONLY thing that can get justification apart from works. Believing is hardly a work of self righteousness, lol.
The text PLAINLY says it is the sanctified person who tramples the blood of Christ who will be condemned with the enemies of God. And the author PLAINLY defined the sanctified person he is talking about as being born again (vs.10 & 14).
Also, there is a reason why the phrase "trampling on the blood" is used.
Plus, it is going back to trusting law, that's the point in Hebrews. Not going back to the world. To sin while being born again is to be tempted by ones own personal lusts, and forgetting or not understanding who and what we have been made.
Made by the power of God. We cannot change our "spots". Only die.
Plus, it is going back to trusting law, that's the point in Hebrews. Not going back to the world. To sin while being born again is to be tempted by ones own personal lusts, and forgetting or not understanding who and what we have been made.
Made by the power of God. We cannot change our "spots". Only die.
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Don't get caught up in word games, especially one in order to condone sin in a believer.
"16Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness." (Romans 6:16-18 NASB)
I hope you are presenting yourself to Christ as a slave to righteousness. Are you? Or are you rationalizing sin because you are a son/daughter who can get away with it?
"16Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness." (Romans 6:16-18 NASB)
I hope you are presenting yourself to Christ as a slave to righteousness. Are you? Or are you rationalizing sin because you are a son/daughter who can get away with it?
John 12:20-36, "12:20, "And there were certain Greeks among those coming up to worship at the festival."12:21, "These then came to Philip, who was from Bĕyth Tsaiḏa of Galil, and were asking him, saying, “Master, we wish to see יהושע.”"12:22, "Philip came and told Andri, and in turn Andri and Philip told יהושע."12:23, "And יהושע answered them, saying, “The hour has come for the Son of Aḏam to be esteemed."12:24, "“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit."12:25, "“He who loves his life shall lose it, and he who hates his life in this world shall preserve it for everlasting life."12:26, "“If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me. And where I am, there My servant also shall be. If anyone serves Me, the Father shall value him."12:27, "“Now I Myself am troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save Me from this hour’? But for this reason I came to this hour."12:28, "“Father, esteem Your Name.” Then a voice came from the heaven, “I have both esteemed it and shall esteem it again.”"12:29, "So the crowd who stood by and heard it were saying there had been thunder. Others said, “A messenger has spoken to Him.”"12:30, "יהושע answered and said, “This voice did not come because of Me, but for your sake."12:31, "“Now is the judgment of this world, now the ruler of this worldb shall be cast out. Footnote: bSee Luk 4:6."12:32, "“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, shall draw all men unto Myself.”"12:33, "This He said, signifying by what death He was about to die."12:34, "The crowd answered Him, “We have heard out of the Torah that the Messiah remains forever. And how do You say, ‘The Son of Aḏam has to be lifted up’? Who is this Son of Aḏam?”"12:35, "יהושע, therefore, said to them, “Yet a little while the light is with you. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you. And he who walks in darkness does not know where he is going."12:36, "“While you have the light, believe in the light, so that you become sons of light.” These words יהושע spoke, and went off and was hidden from them."