Not By Works

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Nov 6, 2017
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Just passing by!

Oh oh and I got something to share.

I'm listening to this series called "The Major Covenants of the Bible"

There's the Edenic, Noahic, Abrahamic, Mosaic and dun dun dun the NEW covenant.

Here's a thought.. which, hmm, I should probably create as another thread. Okay, will open a new thread instead. It's about what the new covenant really is.
The basis for the New Covneant is found in Jeremiah.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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Endoscopy keeps saying Jesus said the law is eternal, but that is not what Jesus said. He said, "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." As we should know, Jesus has fulfilled the law. Heaven and earth are still here, but they will not always be as they are, for they are to be destroyed and a new heavens and earth created.


Basic theology looks at ALL texts on an issue in context to come up with a meaningful concept. It is obvious that not all has been fulfilled. None of the end times prophecies have been fulfilled. What was finished was his sacrifice for our sins. That gift of freeing us from the penalty of the law. The New Testament is filled with discussions about sin. Without the law there is no sin since sin is the transgression of the law.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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I refer you to Louis Berkhof's books on systematic theology. He made different versions from his massive listing of all verses on an issue to a much smaller one only using a few verses. Buy the big one and get educated on how theology works.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,185
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Basic theology looks at ALL texts on an issue in context to come up with a meaningful concept. It is obvious that not all has been fulfilled. None of the end times prophecies have been fulfilled. What was finished was his sacrifice for our sins. That gift of freeing us from the penalty of the law. The New Testament is filled with discussions about sin. Without the law there is no sin since sin is the transgression of the law.
I did not say all had been fulfilled, but that Jesus fulfilled the law. Do you see a difference? It would be nice if people responded to what was said instead of what they imagine was said. Like you imagining Jesus said the law was forever. He did not say that, but you have yet to acknowledge it. Jesus said specific things, which you turn into something else and call it a meaningful concept. It would be better to quote Jesus properly and not put your spin on it.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
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DID JESUS STOPPED WORKING AFTER HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS (CHRIST’S FINISHED WORK ON THE CROSS)?

WHAT WORK WAS FINISHED ON THE CROSS?

DID CHRIST FINISHED HIS WORKS OF SALVATION BY DYING ON THE CROSS?

John 5:17 Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.”

...the reason the son of man appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. (1 john 3:8)

John 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Luke 24:44-49 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.” Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”



IS SALVATION “VOID OF WORKS” OR “ NOT BY WORKS (OF OURSELVES)?

ARE SERVANTS CONSIDERED WORKERS?

ARE PREACHERS,TEACHERS, EVANGELISTS, PASTORS, MINISTERS, ADMINISTRATORS ETC. CONSIDERED SERVANTS AND WORKERS OF GOD?
WHAT IF THEY ONLY HAVE FAITH VOID OF WORKS, THEN LOOK DOWN ON THE OTHER PARTS OF THE BODY IN HYPOCRISY AS IF THEY'RE THE ONLY LEGITIMATE PART OF IT? WILL THAT FAITH SAVE THEM?( 1corinthians chapter 12)

WE ARE GOD’S FELLOW WORKERS(1 cor 3:9)
SENT OUT TO HARVEST WHAT WE HAVE NOT WORKED FOR...THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE.

Luke 10:2 He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field.

John 4:34-38 “My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. Do you not say, ‘Four months more and then the harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. EVEN NOW the reaper draws his wages, EVEN NOW HE HARVESTS THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad TOGETHER. Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ I SENT YOU TO REAP WHAT YOU HAVE NOT WORKED FOR. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor.”

ARE THERE WORKS NEEDED TO BE DONE FOR SALVATION?

WE ARE TO SERVE IN THE WORKS OF THE GOSPEL WHICH IS THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION.

1 Thessalonians 3:2,5 We sent Timothy, who is our brother and GOD’S FELLOW WORKER in SPREADING THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST, to strengthen and encourage you in your faith, For this reason, when I could stand it no longer, I sent to find out about your faith. I was afraid that in some way the tempter might have tempted you and our efforts might have been USELESS.

Philippians 2:22 But you know that Timothy has proved himself, because as a son with his father he has SERVED WITH ME in the WORK OF THE GOSPEL.

Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

John 7:18 HE WHO SPEAKS ON HIS OWN does so to gain honor for himself, but HE WHO WORKS FOR THE HONOR OF THE ONE WHO SENT HIM IS A MAN OF TRUTH; there is nothing false about him.

John 9:4-5 As long as it is day, “WE” MUST DO THE WORK OF HIM WHO SENT ME. Night is coming, when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

BUT WE ARE NOT WORKING FOR OUR OWN SALVATION BUT FOR THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST OF WHOM HE IS THE SAVIOR (eph 5:23),
WHERE HE PUTS THOSE THAT ARE BEING SAVED AND ARE MADE PARTS OF HIS BODY FOR WORKS OF SERVICE.

Ephesians 4:11-13 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, TO PREPARE GOD’S PEOPLE FOR WORKS OF SERVICE, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

Romans 12:4-8 Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man’s gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith. If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

1 Corinthians 11:3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

THE TRUE MESSAGE OF THE CROSS IS SELFLESS LOVE.

GOD GAVE US HIS ONLY SON.
JESUS GAVE HIS LIFE FOR US.
WE OUGHT TO LAY DOWN OUR LIVES FOR OUR BROTHERS.

1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.

Philippians 2:4 Each of you should look not only to your OWN INTERESTS, but also to the interests of OTHERS.

Colossians 3:12-17 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

Galatians 6:2,10 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

2 Timothy 2:14-19 A Workman Approved by God Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against QUARRELING ABOUT WORDS; it is of no value, and ONLY RUINS THOSE WHO LISTEN. Do your best to present yourself to God as one APPROVED, a WORKMAN who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. Avoid godless chatter, because THOSE WHO INDULGE IN IT WILL BECOME MORE AND MORE UNGODLY. Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have WANDERED AWAY FROM THE TRUTH. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and THEY DESTROY THE FAITH OF SOME. Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord MUST TURN AWAY FROM WICKEDNESS.”
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
DID JESUS STOP WORKING AFTER HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS (CHRIST’S FINISHED WORK ON THE CROSS)?

WHAT WORK WAS FINISHED ON THE CROSS?

DID CHRIST FINISH HIS WORKS OF SALVATION BY DYING ON THE CROSS?

John 5:17 Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.”

...the reason the son of man appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. (1 john 3:8)

John 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Luke 24:44-49 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.” Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”



IS SALVATION “VOID OF WORKS” OR “ NOT BY WORKS (OF OURSELVES)?

ARE SERVANTS CONSIDERED WORKERS?

ARE PREACHERS,TEACHERS, EVANGELISTS, PASTORS, MINISTERS, ADMINISTRATORS ETC. CONSIDERED SERVANTS AND WORKERS OF GOD?
WHAT IF THEY ONLY HAVE FAITH VOID OF WORKS, THEN LOOK DOWN ON THE OTHER PARTS OF THE BODY IN HYPOCRISY AS IF THEY'RE THE ONLY LEGITIMATE PART OF IT? WILL THAT FAITH SAVE THEM?( 1corinthians chapter 12)

WE ARE GOD’S FELLOW WORKERS(1 cor 3:9)
SENT OUT TO HARVEST WHAT WE HAVE NOT WORKED FOR...THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE.

Luke 10:2 He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field.

John 4:34-38 “My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. Do you not say, ‘Four months more and then the harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. EVEN NOW the reaper draws his wages, EVEN NOW HE HARVESTS THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad TOGETHER. Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ I SENT YOU TO REAP WHAT YOU HAVE NOT WORKED FOR. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor.”

ARE THERE WORKS NEEDED TO BE DONE FOR SALVATION?

WE ARE TO SERVE IN THE WORKS OF THE GOSPEL WHICH IS THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION.

1 Thessalonians 3:2,5 We sent Timothy, who is our brother and GOD’S FELLOW WORKER in SPREADING THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST, to strengthen and encourage you in your faith, For this reason, when I could stand it no longer, I sent to find out about your faith. I was afraid that in some way the tempter might have tempted you and our efforts might have been USELESS.

Philippians 2:22 But you know that Timothy has proved himself, because as a son with his father he has SERVED WITH ME in the WORK OF THE GOSPEL.

Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

John 7:18 HE WHO SPEAKS ON HIS OWN does so to gain honor for himself, but HE WHO WORKS FOR THE HONOR OF THE ONE WHO SENT HIM IS A MAN OF TRUTH; there is nothing false about him.

John 9:4-5 As long as it is day, “WE” MUST DO THE WORK OF HIM WHO SENT ME. Night is coming, when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

BUT WE ARE NOT WORKING FOR OUR OWN SALVATION BUT FOR THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST OF WHOM HE IS THE SAVIOR (eph 5:23),
WHERE HE PUTS THOSE THAT ARE BEING SAVED AND ARE MADE PARTS OF HIS BODY FOR WORKS OF SERVICE.

Ephesians 4:11-13 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, TO PREPARE GOD’S PEOPLE FOR WORKS OF SERVICE, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

Romans 12:4-8 Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man’s gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith. If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

1 Corinthians 11:3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

THE TRUE MESSAGE OF THE CROSS IS SELFLESS LOVE.

GOD GAVE US HIS ONLY SON.
JESUS GAVE HIS LIFE FOR US.
WE OUGHT TO LAY DOWN OUR LIVES FOR OUR BROTHERS.

1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.

Philippians 2:4 Each of you should look not only to your OWN INTERESTS, but also to the interests of OTHERS.

Colossians 3:12-17 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

Galatians 6:2,10 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

2 Timothy 2:14-19 A Workman Approved by God Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against QUARRELING ABOUT WORDS; it is of no value, and ONLY RUINS THOSE WHO LISTEN. Do your best to present yourself to God as one APPROVED, a WORKMAN who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. Avoid godless chatter, because THOSE WHO INDULGE IN IT WILL BECOME MORE AND MORE UNGODLY. Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have WANDERED AWAY FROM THE TRUTH. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and THEY DESTROY THE FAITH OF SOME. Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord MUST TURN AWAY FROM WICKEDNESS.”
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I see the workers for and sinless perfectionists continue to post pages of scripture trying to prove an invalid point....faith alone is what saves a man...anything beyond that is the results of the faith and salvation one already possesses in Christ....!
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,138
216
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I see the workers for and sinless perfectionists continue to post pages of scripture trying to prove an invalid point....faith alone is what saves a man...anything beyond that is the results of the faith and salvation one already possesses in Christ....!
James 2

18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.




The contention is.. what works accompany the Faith.. and that is where we build our house.. on the Lord’s Testimony.. those are our works.. to Hear, Believe and do.. is to Love the Lord..

now you once asked if I should go show the Priest like the healed man was instructed... that is not rightly dividing the Truth.. The High Priest that healed me asks that I do much.. and I believe.. each day is a day I draw nourishment from my Root by Believing.. for Love is not measured by word but by deed... GOD saved and will Keep me but my Belief is a desire to be Christ like each day.. GOD my strength and refuge.. Grace abounds.. Love and forgivenes.. Mercy and Justice.. GOD be thanked and Glorified always and forever..


The hearing of Faith is how we receive the Spirit.. how we continue in is to Believe unto the saving of our Souls.. and always remembering it is a gift.. no merit.. all undeserved.. the more I learn the more I count myself an unworthy servant.. Blessed by GOD whom I truly Love.. no for.. but because of... I was the servant who owed too much and had nothing to pay.. and still have nothing to pay.. and I pass this on to all by the Love of GOD.


Now I do go on.. and it may be nearing time to withdraw from cc for a while not to be repetitive.. GOD will lead.

peace and love to you all.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,574
13,551
113
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I see the workers for and sinless perfectionists continue to post pages of scripture trying to prove an invalid point....faith alone is what saves a man...anything beyond that is the results of the faith and salvation one already possesses in Christ....!
Such people play the same game in salvation as every other false movement of Christendom. They profess to teach that salvation is by grace through faith, but then redefine this in a way that is contrary to New Testament doctrine. Even though they may even deny this, they teach that salvation is by grace plus law, faith plus works. Their doctrine of salvation is a subtle mixture of law and grace that is a perversion of the Gospel.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
I did not say all had been fulfilled, but that Jesus fulfilled the law. Do you see a difference? It would be nice if people responded to what was said instead of what they imagine was said. Like you imagining Jesus said the law was forever. He did not say that, but you have yet to acknowledge it. Jesus said specific things, which you turn into something else and call it a meaningful concept. It would be better to quote Jesus properly and not put your spin on it.
Here is the quote. I highlighted the significant portion. Please explain how I am wrong with this quote from Jesus. So what are you teaching in relation to these verses. Consider what Jesus said about it in this text.

Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV


Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.


14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.


The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
 
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Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
Tell me how I am imagining things. I just put into my words what this text says and you tell me I am imagining things.

This text says the law is in effect forever.

Explain away.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,185
30,322
113
Here is the quote. I highlighted the significant portion. Please explain how I am wrong with this quote from Jesus. So what are you teaching in relation to these verses. Consider what Jesus said about it in this text.

Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV

Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.


14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
I already explained, but you fail to comprehend the FACT that Jesus did not say the law was eternal. Right there in your highlighted verse Jesus affirms what I told you: He came to fulfill the law. Why don't you just admit that Christ did not say what you claimed? Going around in circles like this with you is not edifying.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,185
30,322
113
Such people play the same game in salvation as every other false movement of Christendom. They profess to teach that salvation is by grace through faith, but then redefine this in a way that is contrary to New Testament doctrine. Even though they may even deny this, they teach that salvation is by grace plus law, faith plus works. Their doctrine of salvation is a subtle mixture of law and grace that is a perversion of the Gospel.
They go one further and constantly claim that those with whom they disagree do not read or understand Scriptures :p One claimed there was NO truth in what one said and then went on to agree with parts of what had been said. The same one continually judges others and then denies that they are judging. The blindness is real.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 5:29, "And Kĕpha and the other emissaries answering, said, “We have to obey YHWH rather than men.” [/FONT]
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
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Mark 7:6-23 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you HYPOCRITES; as it is written: “‘THESE PEOPLE HONOR ME WITH THEIR LIPS, but THEIR HEARTS ARE FAR FROM ME. They worship me IN VAIN, THEIR TEACHINGS ARE JUST RULES TAUGHT BY MEN’ YOU HAVE LET GO OF THE COMMANDS OF GOD and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them, YOU HAVE A FINE WAY OF SETTING ASIDE THE COMMANDS OF GOD in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. Thus YOU NULLIFY THE WORD OF GOD by your tradition that you have handed down. AND YOU DO MANY THINGS LIKE THAT.” Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a man can make him ‘unclean’ by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him ‘unclean.’”
If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.”
After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him ‘unclean’? For it doesn’t go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods “clean.”) He went on: “What comes out of a man is what makes him ‘unclean.’ For from within, OUT OF MEN’S HEARTS, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and make a man ‘unclean.’”
?

We are saying that we have a new heart, new nature. Born again, a new creation birthed of Spirit. We have another Priesthood, our High Priest now is the Son of God. We are freed to be led by Spirit. Holy Spirit now being in the world, and we connected to Him, an eternal connection within, hear His Voice. He speaks in several ways, and may be by scripture, may be His Voice within us, may be by prophetic word.

NOT BY LAW! SPIRIT!

Did you get it this time?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
The Law is spiritual:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:14, “For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin*.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:4, "...for sin is the transgression of the Law."

The carnal huiman can not even make themselves accountable to His Law:

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), YHWH; for it is not subject to the Law of YHWH, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please YHWH."[/FONT]
 
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James 2

18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.




The contention is.. what works accompany the Faith.. and that is where we build our house.. on the Lord’s Testimony.. those are our works.. to Hear, Believe and do.. is to Love the Lord..

now you once asked if I should go show the Priest like the healed man was instructed... that is not rightly dividing the Truth.. The High Priest that healed me asks that I do much.. and I believe.. each day is a day I draw nourishment from my Root by Believing.. for Love is not measured by word but by deed... GOD saved and will Keep me but my Belief is a desire to be Christ like each day.. GOD my strength and refuge.. Grace abounds.. Love and forgivenes.. Mercy and Justice.. GOD be thanked and Glorified always and forever..


The hearing of Faith is how we receive the Spirit.. how we continue in is to Believe unto the saving of our Souls.. and always remembering it is a gift.. no merit.. all undeserved.. the more I learn the more I count myself an unworthy servant.. Blessed by GOD whom I truly Love.. no for.. but because of... I was the servant who owed too much and had nothing to pay.. and still have nothing to pay.. and I pass this on to all by the Love of GOD.


Now I do go on.. and it may be nearing time to withdraw from cc for a while not to be repetitive.. GOD will lead.

peace and love to you all.
Good idea....parroting workers for who qutoe James out of context almost every single time does not change the facts on the ground......you can quote it a million times and it will not change the fact that it is faith alone that justifies and saves a man before God (Romans) and that the faith that has already saved and justified a man before God (Romans) is seen by men based upon our actions, deeds or works (James)...................end of story
 
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Such people play the same game in salvation as every other false movement of Christendom. They profess to teach that salvation is by grace through faith, but then redefine this in a way that is contrary to New Testament doctrine. Even though they may even deny this, they teach that salvation is by grace plus law, faith plus works. Their doctrine of salvation is a subtle mixture of law and grace that is a perversion of the Gospel.
I hear ya....as subtle as adding the word "not" to what God said in the garden (EASTWARD) IN EDEN.....most leave off eastward and embellish with "of".........
 
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I already explained, but you fail to comprehend the FACT that Jesus did not say the law was eternal. Right there in your highlighted verse Jesus affirms what I told you: He came to fulfill the law. Why don't you just admit that Christ did not say what you claimed? Going around in circles like this with you is not edifying.
Several on here could have been or are tap dance reward recipients...........