Not By Works

Seohce · Dec 15, 2017

Not by works( NOT VOID OF WORKS) but by grace thru FAITH.(eph 2:8-9)
Justified by works and NOT BY FAITH ALONE.(james 2:24)
Faith that Worketh in Love.(gal 5:6)
Faith and Action Working TOGETHER.(james 2:22)

Salvation is by GRACE through FAITH and NOT BY WORKS(of ourselves).(#1)

It is NOT BY FAITH ALONE(#2)but it WORKS in LOVE(#3)thus FAITH & LOVE(works of obedience(romans 1:5) manifested in ACTION and in TRUTH)(1john 3:16-18)are working TOGETHER.(#4)

2 John 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE: THAT WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE.

THE FIRST PHASE OF SALVATION IS TO BELIEVE IN THE ONE THAT GOD HAS SENT AND IN HIS WORD OF TRUTH, THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION.
(john 6:28-29, eph 1:13,romans 10:8-17).
THROUGH THIS FAITH WE WILL RECEIVE THE PROMISED HOLY SPIRIT(the Helper/Counsellor)(gal 3:14, john 14:16-17)

John 6:28-29 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the WORKS GOD REQUIRES?” Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to BELIEVE in the one he has sent.”

THE SECOND PHASE IS THE WORKING OUT OF THAT SALVATION AND REMAINING/CONTINUING IN THE FAITH TO THE END THROUGH OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL AND COMMANDMENTS, DOING GOOD WORKS. WALKING AS JESUS DID AND BEING A PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST WHO DOES THE WORKS BEING LED BY THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST WHO IS THE HEAD.

Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, HIS BODY OF WHICH HE IS THE SAVIOR.

1 Corinthians 12:28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.

John 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has FAITH in me WILL DO WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father

1 Corinthians 15:2 By this gospel you are saved, iF YOU HOLD FIRMLY TO THE WORD I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Romans 1:5 Through him and for his name’s sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the OBEDIENCE that comes from FAITH.

Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always OBEYED—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—CONTINUE TO WORK OUT YOUR SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING.

Romans 6:16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—WHETHER YOU ARE SLAVES TO SIN, WHICH LEADS TO DEATH, OR TO OBEDIENCE, WHICH LEADS TO RIGHTEOUSNESS?

2 Corinthians 9:13 Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, men will praise God for the OBEDIENCE THAT ACCOMPANIES YOUR CONFESSION OF THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else.

Ephesians 4:11-13 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to PREPARE God’s people FOR WORKS OF SERVICE, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the FULLNESS of Christ.

Romans 2:7 To those who by persistence in DOING GOOD seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Galatians 6:9 Let us not become weary in DOING GOOD, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus TO DO GOOD WORKS, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

1 Timothy 6:18-19 Command them TO DO GOOD, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life.

Hebrews 5:8-9 Although he was a son, he learned OBEDIENCE from what he suffered and, once made PERFECT, he became the SOURCE OF ETERNAL SALVATION for all who OBEY HIM.

Matthew 19:16-17 Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do TO GET ETERNAL LIFE?” “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.”

Matthew 25:21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful SERVANT You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. COME AND SHARE YOUR MASTER’S HAPPINESS!’

WE ARE SANCTIFIED BY THESE TRUTHS AS IT IS WRITTEN:
John 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.

James 1:22 BUT BE YE DOERS OF THE WORD AND NOT HEARERS ONLY deceiving your own selves.

Romans 2:13 (For it is not the hearers of the law who are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God: that WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS; and His commandments are not grievous.

1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed and in truth.

Ephesians 3:19 and to know this LOVE that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all THE FULLNESS OF GOD.

THE THIRD PHASE OF SALVATION IS SALVATION FROM GOD’S WRATH. THIS IS DEPENDING ON GOD’S MERCY AND JUDGMENT(JUSTICE).

Romans 9:15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

1 John 4:17 In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because IN THIS WORLD WE ARE LIKE HIM.

Matthew 12:36-37 But I tell you that MEN WILL HAVE TO GIVE ACCOUNT ON THE DAY OF JUDGMENT for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

John 16:8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father,(ref:john 14:12) where you can see me no longer; and in regard to judgment,(ref:hebrews 10:26-27) because the prince of this world now stands condemned.

Romans 2:5-10 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

Romans 14:10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? FOR WE WILL ALL STAND BEFORE GOD’S JUDGMENT SEAT.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, NOT TO BEAR SIN, BUT TO BRING SALVATION to those who are waiting for him.

1 Peter 4:17-18 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for THOSE WHO DO NOT OBEY the gospel of God? And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the SINNERS.

John 7:17-18 If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who WORKS for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.

John 3:34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.

John 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

Seohce · Dec 15, 2017

dcontroversal said:

DID JESUS STOPPED WORKING AFTER HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS (CHRIST’S FINISHED WORK ON THE CROSS)?

WHAT WORK WAS FINISHED ON THE CROSS?

DID CHRIST FINISHED HIS WORKS OF SALVATION BY DYING ON THE CROSS?

John 5:17 Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.”

...the reason the son of man appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. (1 john 3:8)

John 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Luke 24:44-49 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.” Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”

IS SALVATION “VOID OF WORKS” OR “ NOT BY WORKS (OF OURSELVES)?

ARE SERVANTS CONSIDERED WORKERS?

ARE PREACHERS,TEACHERS, EVANGELISTS, PASTORS, MINISTERS, ADMINISTRATORS ETC. CONSIDERED SERVANTS AND WORKERS OF GOD?
WHAT IF THEY ONLY HAVE FAITH VOID OF WORKS, THEN LOOK DOWN ON THE OTHER PARTS OF THE BODY IN HYPOCRISY AS IF THEY'RE THE ONLY LEGITIMATE PART OF IT? WILL THAT FAITH SAVE THEM?( 1corinthians chapter 12)

WE ARE GOD’S FELLOW WORKERS(1 cor 3:9)
SENT OUT TO HARVEST WHAT WE HAVE NOT WORKED FOR...THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE.

Luke 10:2 He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field.

John 4:34-38 “My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. Do you not say, ‘Four months more and then the harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. EVEN NOW the reaper draws his wages, EVEN NOW HE HARVESTS THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad TOGETHER. Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ I SENT YOU TO REAP WHAT YOU HAVE NOT WORKED FOR. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor.”

ARE THERE WORKS NEEDED TO BE DONE FOR SALVATION?

WE ARE TO SERVE IN THE WORKS OF THE GOSPEL WHICH IS THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION.

1 Thessalonians 3:2,5 We sent Timothy, who is our brother and GOD’S FELLOW WORKER in SPREADING THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST, to strengthen and encourage you in your faith, For this reason, when I could stand it no longer, I sent to find out about your faith. I was afraid that in some way the tempter might have tempted you and our efforts might have been USELESS.

Philippians 2:22 But you know that Timothy has proved himself, because as a son with his father he has SERVED WITH ME in the WORK OF THE GOSPEL.

Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

John 7:18 HE WHO SPEAKS ON HIS OWN does so to gain honor for himself, but HE WHO WORKS FOR THE HONOR OF THE ONE WHO SENT HIM IS A MAN OF TRUTH; there is nothing false about him.

John 9:4-5 As long as it is day, “WE” MUST DO THE WORK OF HIM WHO SENT ME. Night is coming, when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

BUT WE ARE NOT WORKING FOR OUR OWN SALVATION BUT FOR THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST OF WHOM HE IS THE SAVIOR (eph 5:23),
WHERE HE PUTS THOSE THAT ARE BEING SAVED AND ARE MADE PARTS OF HIS BODY FOR WORKS OF SERVICE.

Ephesians 4:11-13 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, TO PREPARE GOD’S PEOPLE FOR WORKS OF SERVICE, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

Romans 12:4-8 Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man’s gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith. If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

1 Corinthians 11:3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

THE TRUE MESSAGE OF THE CROSS IS SELFLESS LOVE.

GOD GAVE US HIS ONLY SON.
JESUS GAVE HIS LIFE FOR US.
WE OUGHT TO LAY DOWN OUR LIVES FOR OUR BROTHERS.

1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.

Philippians 2:4 Each of you should look not only to your OWN INTERESTS, but also to the interests of OTHERS.

Philippians 2:21 For everyone looks out for HIS OWN INTERESTS, not those of Jesus Christ.

Colossians 3:12-17 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

Galatians 6:2,10 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

2 Timothy 2:14-19 A Workman Approved by God Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against QUARRELING ABOUT WORDS; it is of no value, and ONLY RUINS THOSE WHO LISTEN. Do your best to present yourself to God as one APPROVED, a WORKMAN who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. Avoid godless chatter, because THOSE WHO INDULGE IN IT WILL BECOME MORE AND MORE UNGODLY. Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have WANDERED AWAY FROM THE TRUTH. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and THEY DESTROY THE FAITH OF SOME. Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord MUST TURN AWAY FROM WICKEDNESS.”

IamWhoIam · Dec 15, 2017

Seohce said:

DID JESUS STOPPED WORKING AFTER HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS (CHRIST’S FINISHED WORK ON THE CROSS)?

WHAT WORK WAS FINISHED ON THE CROSS?

DID CHRIST FINISHED HIS WORKS OF SALVATION BY DYING ON THE CROSS?

John 5:17 Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.”

...the reason the son of man appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. (1 john 3:8)

John 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Luke 24:44-49 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.” Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things. I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”

IS SALVATION “VOID OF WORKS” OR “ NOT BY WORKS (OF OURSELVES)?

ARE SERVANTS CONSIDERED WORKERS?

ARE PREACHERS,TEACHERS, EVANGELISTS, PASTORS, MINISTERS, ADMINISTRATORS ETC. CONSIDERED SERVANTS AND WORKERS OF GOD?
WHAT IF THEY ONLY HAVE FAITH VOID OF WORKS, THEN LOOK DOWN ON THE OTHER PARTS OF THE BODY IN HYPOCRISY AS IF THEY'RE THE ONLY LEGITIMATE PART OF IT? WILL THAT FAITH SAVE THEM?( 1corinthians chapter 12)

WE ARE GOD’S FELLOW WORKERS(1 cor 3:9)
SENT OUT TO HARVEST WHAT WE HAVE NOT WORKED FOR...THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE.

Luke 10:2 He told them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field.

John 4:34-38 “My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. Do you not say, ‘Four months more and then the harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. EVEN NOW the reaper draws his wages, EVEN NOW HE HARVESTS THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad TOGETHER. Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ I SENT YOU TO REAP WHAT YOU HAVE NOT WORKED FOR. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor.”

ARE THERE WORKS NEEDED TO BE DONE FOR SALVATION?

WE ARE TO SERVE IN THE WORKS OF THE GOSPEL WHICH IS THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION.

1 Thessalonians 3:2,5 We sent Timothy, who is our brother and GOD’S FELLOW WORKER in SPREADING THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST, to strengthen and encourage you in your faith, For this reason, when I could stand it no longer, I sent to find out about your faith. I was afraid that in some way the tempter might have tempted you and our efforts might have been USELESS.

Philippians 2:22 But you know that Timothy has proved himself, because as a son with his father he has SERVED WITH ME in the WORK OF THE GOSPEL.

Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

John 7:18 HE WHO SPEAKS ON HIS OWN does so to gain honor for himself, but HE WHO WORKS FOR THE HONOR OF THE ONE WHO SENT HIM IS A MAN OF TRUTH; there is nothing false about him.

John 9:4-5 As long as it is day, “WE” MUST DO THE WORK OF HIM WHO SENT ME. Night is coming, when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

BUT WE ARE NOT WORKING FOR OUR OWN SALVATION BUT FOR THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST OF WHOM HE IS THE SAVIOR (eph 5:23),
WHERE HE PUTS THOSE THAT ARE BEING SAVED AND ARE MADE PARTS OF HIS BODY FOR WORKS OF SERVICE.

Ephesians 4:11-13 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, TO PREPARE GOD’S PEOPLE FOR WORKS OF SERVICE, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

Romans 12:4-8 Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man’s gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to his faith. If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

1 Corinthians 11:3 Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

THE TRUE MESSAGE OF THE CROSS IS SELFLESS LOVE.

GOD GAVE US HIS ONLY SON.
JESUS GAVE HIS LIFE FOR US.
WE OUGHT TO LAY DOWN OUR LIVES FOR OUR BROTHERS.

1 John 3:16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.

Philippians 2:4 Each of you should look not only to your OWN INTERESTS, but also to the interests of OTHERS.

Philippians 2:21 For everyone looks out for HIS OWN INTERESTS, not those of Jesus Christ.

Colossians 3:12-17 Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

Galatians 6:2,10 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

2 Timothy 2:14-19 A Workman Approved by God Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against QUARRELING ABOUT WORDS; it is of no value, and ONLY RUINS THOSE WHO LISTEN. Do your best to present yourself to God as one APPROVED, a WORKMAN who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. Avoid godless chatter, because THOSE WHO INDULGE IN IT WILL BECOME MORE AND MORE UNGODLY. Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have WANDERED AWAY FROM THE TRUTH. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and THEY DESTROY THE FAITH OF SOME. Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord MUST TURN AWAY FROM WICKEDNESS.”

Nice write about ending the devils work.

But did Jesus Stop working Na

john 21
4Early in the morning, Jesus stood on the shore, but the disciples did not recognize that it was Jesus. 5So He said to them, “Children, do you have any fish?”“No,” they answered. 6He told them, “Cast the net on the right side of the boat, and you will find some.”So they cast it there, and they were unable to haul it in because of the great number of fish.

dcontroversal · Dec 15, 2017

The work of Jesus on our behalf has nothing to do with attempting to prove that works are part of gaining salvation.....it is a rather absurd and ignorant attempt to prove a false stance....Works do not save, keep saved, embellish salvation.....Salvation is a one off eternal event based upon faith and faith alone.....add to faith = a false satanic dogma with no power to save.....any work or fruit is the result of the faith and salvation one already possesses in Christ by faith and faith alone!

stonesoffire · Dec 15, 2017

VCO said:

Well, this is something I've never heard before. And I think this might be what Dcon was trying to say. You added and I can see.

I need to think about this because I've always thought that Jesus preached to the OT saints while in hell, and they went to Paradise then with Him.

And I still don't consider sheep and Sons to be the same.

Its interesting how we can think differently in other directions about the same topic.

Going to explore this later. Thanks for this post VCO.

dcontroversal · Dec 16, 2017

stonesoffire said:

Exactly....both are grafted in under the same banner....O.T. saints were called the ekklesia (assembly) of the firstborn in the wilderness....N.T. saints are called the (ekklesia) as well...the word means called out and is local and visible in it's application......there is no distinction made between the two....both are by faith, blood and water......the OT struck the blood, had collective immersion (Red Sea and Jordan ) were identified with the cross (Serpent lifted up) and identified as either the or an ekklesia of Christ

Hizikyah · Dec 16, 2017

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 7:16-17, "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching, whether it comes from YHWH, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."[/FONT]

dcontroversal · Dec 16, 2017

Thank God the condemnation of the law is not leveled against any but the lawless who have not trusted into the saving faith of Christ while going about to establish their own righteousness by the works of the law which does nothing but condemn and prove guilt.....the imputed righteousness of Christ without works and or law adherance comes by faith and faith alone!

mailmandan · Dec 16, 2017

BillG said:

Amen! Jesus showed the rich young ruler how short he falls of keeping the first commandment (Exodus 20:3) which is the first of the two great commandments (Deuteronomy 6:5; Matthew 22:37). The rich young ruler confidently and (self righteously) declared that he has kept the commandments from his youth up and qualified for heaven under those terms. Yet Jesus knew the man's wealth had become his idolatrous god, which kept him from believing in Jesus.

The rich young ruler missed the point that Jesus was making, failed to place his faith in Jesus for salvation, and continued instead to trust in his riches (vs. 21-23). His face fell and he went away sad because he could not part from his great wealth, not even in exchange for eternal life.

If keeping the commandments is the basis by which we receive eternal life, then why isn't this remark the pattern for all discussions concerning eternal life? Paul would have said to the jailer who asked, "what must I do to be saved?" by replying in Acts 16:31, "keep the commandments and you will be saved.." yet that's not what Paul said.

Jesus knows the hearts of all men and responds to each individual a little differently because He knows where their need is. He didn't respond to the woman at the well, or to Nicodemus or to the rich young ruler the same way, yet the consistent pattern in scripture is salvation by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9).

Seohce · Dec 16, 2017

Malachi 2:17 The Day of Judgment You have wearied the Lord with your words. “How have we wearied him?” you ask. By saying, “All who do evil are good in the eyes of the Lord, and he is pleased with them” or “Where is the God of justice?”
Malachi 3:13-18 “You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.

Romans 6:15-16 Slaves to Righteousness What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to OBEDIENCE, which leads to righteousness.

Romans 2:12-15 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is THOSE WHO OBEY THE LAW who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are WRITTEN ON THEIR HEARTS, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.)

mailmandan · Dec 16, 2017

Seohce said:

Do you believe that salvation is by grace plus law, faith plus works?

We must first obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16; 1:16) in order to become righteous.

Notice in Romans 10:10 - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness..

Notice in Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not works) is accounted for righteousness.

There are only two kinds of servants in this world, in the spiritual sense; servants of sin unto death, or servants of obedience unto righteousness. When we place our faith exclusively in Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of our salvation we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness."

Being slaves of sin is put in the past tense. Paul goes on in Romans 6:18 - "You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness." Works-salvationists seem to ignore "servants of obedience unto righteousness" (Romans 6:16) and simply stresses "obedience unto righteousness" as if works of obedience which follow saving faith in Christ are unto righteousness, as if we are saved by works. That appears to be your stumbling block.

You need to read this in context. Paul was talking to the Jews (continue reading in Romans 2:17-24) about their judging of the Gentiles and then points them to their own law (standard of judgment) and hypocrisy and tells them that the doers of the law will be justified before God (verse 13). That leaves them out, along with everyone else (Romans 3:22-28; Galatians 2:16).

The standard they wanted to measure up to was the law. Paul was telling them that the doers of the law will be justified. So, obey the law, *obey all of it, but if you don’t obey all of it, you have failed!* He tells them that the Gentiles who didn't have the law according to the knowledge of the Jews were instinctively doing the things of the law (verse 14) and will be judged accordingly. How much more so the Jews?

Paul was showing the self-righteous Jews who judged the Gentiles that they were not able to measure up to the perfect standard of the law. *They were hypocrites. *This is why Paul tells us in the very next chapter in Romans 3:28 that we are justified by faith apart from the works of the law. *No one was able to perfectly obey the law (except for Jesus Christ). *If you fail even once (stumble in one point), then you become guilty of all.

James 2:10, "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all." Galatians 3:10, For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them."

The Jews were told that doers of the law will be justified, but they have to be 100% perfect. *A person can’t fail even once--ever. *But all have failed (Romans 3:23; 6:23), that is why man is justified before God by faith and not by the works of the law (Romans 3:24-28, 4:2-6; 5:1; Galatians 2:16).

Seohce · Dec 16, 2017

Romans 3:19-20 Now we know that whatever the law says, IT SAYS TO THOSE WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

Gentiles were never given the law;

Romans 9:4 the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises.

Ephesians 2:11-16 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (that done in the body by the hands of men)— remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.

Romans 13:9-10 The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore LOVE IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW.

2 John 1:6 And this is love: that WE WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE.

1 John 2:6 Whoever claims to live in him MUST WALK AS JESUS DID.

.John 14:31 but the world must learn that I LOVE THE FATHER and that I DO EXACTLY WHAT THE FATHER HAS COMMANDED ME. “Come now; let us leave.

John 14:15,21-24 “If you love me, YOU WILL OBEY WHAT I COMMAND. Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?” Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath beforehand ordained, that WE SHOULD WALK IN THEM.

.John 14:12 I tell you the truth, ANYONE WHO HAS FAITH IN ME WILL DO WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

Matthew 19:17,25-26 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.” When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but WITH God all things are possible.”

GOD IS LOVE (1john 4:8 & 16)

1 Corinthians 13:1-3 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and IF I HAVE A FAITH that can move mountains, BUT HAVE NOT LOVE, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

John 8:47 He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

Seohce · Dec 16, 2017

BillG said:

Amen bro. And I see there that Jesus was seeking genuine faith through a genuine obedience. Just like the rich fellow, many so-called believers rejects the laws and commands of God because they could not submit to them because of their greed, selfish desires and pride, they walk away from God

New International Version 1984 2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

BUT "WITH" GOD NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE.

ONLY THOSE WHO DON'T HAVE LOVE AND ARE NOT WALKING WITH GOD WILL REJECT THE POSSIBILITY OF ALL THINGS DONE WITH GOD..

WE ARE HIS FELLOW WORKER.

stonesoffire · Dec 16, 2017

BillG said:

Merry Christmas!

stonesoffire · Dec 16, 2017

Guys, I never knew this was an issue before. But, my own thinking was to say body of Christ, just because I knew church wasn't representative of all in Christ. So I googled.

- Berean Bible Society - https://www.bereanbiblesociety.org -

[h=1]Part 53: The Church in the Wilderness — The Prophesied Church — The Church of the Mystery[/h]Posted By Pastor J. C. O'Hair On November 2, 2012 @ 1:17 pm In The Unsearchable Riches of Christ | Comments Disabled The seventh chapter of Acts records Stephen’s message to Israel in Jerusalem. In reviewing Israel’s history Stephen made reference to “the Church in the wilderness.”

“THIS IS HE, THAT WAS IN THE CHURCH IN THE WILDERNESS WITH THE ANGEL WHICH SPAKE TO HIM IN THE MOUNT SINAI, AND WITH OUR FATHERS: WHO RECEIVED THE LIVELY ORACLES TO GIVE UNTO US.” Acts 7:38.

Then in Hebrews 2:12 we find a fulfillment of the prophecy of Psalm 22:22 concerning God’s Church or Congregation. Note first, Psalm 22:22 and then, Hebrews 2:12.

“I will declare Thy name unto My brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise Thee.”
“I WILL DECLARE THY NAME UNTO MY BRETHREN, IN THE MIDST OF THE CHURCH WILL I SING PRAISE UNTO THEE.”

Now, by way of comparison, read Colossians 1:24 to 26 and Ephesians 3:4 to 6

“WHO NOW REJOICE IN MY SUFFERINGS FOR YOU, AND FILL UP THAT WHICH IS BEHIND OF THE AFFLICTIONS OF CHRIST IN MY FLESH FOR HIS BODY’S SAKE, WHICH IS THE CHURCH: WHEREOF I AM MADE A MINISTER, ACCORDING TO THE DISPENSATION OF GOD WHICH IS GIVEN TO ME FOR YOU, TO FULFIL THE WORD OF GOD; EVEN THE MYSTERY WHICH HATH BEEN HID FROM AGES AND FROM GENERATIONS, BUT NOW IS MADE MANIFEST TO HIS SAINTS.”
“Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto His holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellow-heirs, and of the same (Joint) Body, and partakers of His promise in Christ by the gospel.”

Before we consider these three “CHURCHES” let us read Acts 19:32, 37, 39 and 41.

“Some therefore cried one thing, and some another; for the assembly was confused; and the more part knew not wherefore they were come together.”
“For ye have brought hither these men, which are neither robbers of churches, nor yet blasphemers of your goddess.”
“But if ye enquire any thing concerning other matters, it shall be determined in a lawful assembly.”
“And when he had spoken, he dismissed the assembly.”

The disciples of Christ were in the midst of an angry mob of idolatrous heathen, in the theatre at Ephesus. The mob was called “an assembly.” The Greek word translated “assembly” is “ekklesia.” You and I have just as much right to call that mob of heathen “a church” as the translators had to call God’s company of saints “a church.” The word “church” or “churches” is found about 117 times in the New Testament Scriptures. With the single exception of Acts 19:37, every time the word “church” is found in the Bible the Greek word is, “ekklesia.” Note the expression, ‘`robbers of churches,” in Acts 19:37. This expression is translated from two Greek words: “sulao” meaning “to rob,” and “heiron,” meaning “temple.” More than fifty times in the New Testament Scriptures the temple at Jerusalem is in the Greek “heiron.”
I am sure then that you would like to join with me in asking the translators why they have left us in such confusion. Why did they translate “heiron,” “churches”? Why did they translate “ekklesia” three times “assembly” in Acts 19, and 116 times “church”? Where did they get such a word as “church”? “Ekklesia” should never have been translated “church.” The word “church” is a form of “Kurios.” “Kurios” is translated many, many times “Lord.” So see how indefinite and vague is the translation of “Ekkesia,” “of the Lord” To be sure “the assembly” at Ephesus in the theatre was “of the devil,” but it was an “ekkesia.” The “ekkesia” described in Ephesians 1:22 and 23 is “of the Lord.” Note these verses

“AND HATH PUT ALL THINGS UNDER HIS FEET, AND GAVE HIM TO BE HEAD OVER ALL THINGS TO THE CHURCH, WHICH IS HIS BODY, THE FULNESS OF HIM THAT FILLETH ALL IN ALL.”

“Ekklesia” is from the Greek “kaleo,” “call,” “ek,” “out.” “The Church” means “the called-out.”
Now note I Timothy 3:15 and 16

“But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in THE HOUSE OF GOD, which is THE CHURCH OF THE LIVING GOD, THE PILLAR AND GROUND OF THE TRUTH. And without controversy great is the mystery.”

Here we read of “the Church of the living God,” “the Ekklesia of the living God,” “the pillar and ground of the truth,” “the House of God,” “the mystery.” There is no reference here to an assembly-hall or meeting place. “The House of God” is a building made of human beings. “The Church of God,” during this present Divine economy, is called, “the Body of Christ,” “the fulness of Christ.”
You and I know perfectly well that no building of stone, brick, or wood, could be the fulness of Christ. Think of the utter confusion of the religious world today. A meeting-place is called “a church.” The majority of the people who attend the meetings in the building, as well as the preacher, may be unsaved. The name “church,” “of the Lord,” is misleading when applied to unsaved human beings gathered in a so-called “church” building. Many people seem to associate the building in some way with God, though God may have nothing to do with it.
When one of the denominations, near Chicago, was rebuilding their beautiful expensive religious edifice, their contractor had a large sign on the temporary barricade, “Danger, Keep Out.” Some man of God said, “What a pity they did not leave that sign there after the building was completed.” Why? Because God had nothing to do with that “church.” The pastor did not believe in the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ or salvation by the once-for-all sacrifice of the Son of God. He was a modernist, and his people followed him with his new theology. He wholly ignored acts 20:28. “Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Spirit hath made you overseers, to feed the Church of God, which He hath purchased with His own blood.”
Not once does the word “church,” in the New Testament Scriptures, refer to the assembly-hall. The word “ekklesia” could not be correctly translated “an assembly-hall.” There is a very great difference between “an assembly-hall” and “the assembly.”
There was a building, in the Old Testament, known as “the house of God.” The Psalmist was glad when they said, “let us go into the house of God.”Every person should rejoice at such an invitation today, but it would mean something entirely different. Some Israelites went many times into “the house of God,” but a believing sinner, in the day of grace, enters once-for-all into “the House of God,” to indeed dwell forever.
Note this House in Ephesians 2:17 to 22:

“AND CAME AND PREACHED PEACE TO YOU WHICH WERE AFAR OFF, AND TO THEM THAT WERE NIGH. FOR THROUGH HIM WE BOTH HAVE ACCESS BY ONE SPIRIT UNTO THE FATHER. NOW THEREFORE YE ARE NO MORE STRANGERS AND FOREIGNERS, BUT FELLOW CITIZENS WITH THE SAINTS, AND OF THE HOUSEHOLD OF GOD; AND ARE BUILT UPON THE FOUNDATION OF THE APOSTLES AND PROPHETS, JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF BEING THE CHIEF CORNER STONE IN WHOM ALL THE BUILDING FITLY FRAMED TOGETHER, GROWETH UNTO AN HOLY TEMPLE IN THE LORD.”

How do we enter the House of God today? “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.” I Corinthians 12:13. Then note Ephesians 4:4 to 6.
[h=2]THE CHURCH IN THE WILDERNESS[/h]Now let us consider Acts 7:38. Here we read of an “ekklesia in the wilderness.” So we see that God had a “Church” long before Christ said, “on this rock I will build My Church.” Matthew 16:16 to 18.
God’s people were “called-out” of Egypt to go to Canaan. On the way they had a sanctuary in the tabernacle, and God met with them and communed with them from above the blood sprinkled mercy-seat.
More than 25 times, in the Book of II Chronicles, God referred to the gatherings of His covenanted people as “the ekklesia.” We read in the authorized version of the Bible the word “congregation.” But in the Greek Septuagint the word is “ekklesia,” the same Greek word found 116 times in the New Testament Scriptures. In Nehemiah 13:1 we read of the “ekklesia of God”; and in that Book we learn that the enemies of God persecuted “the ekklesia of God.” Therefore the Apostle Paul was not the first man to persecute “the Church of God.” Galatians 1:13.
A very simple but important lesson for us to learn is that “the Body of Christ” is “the Church of God”; but “the Church of God” is not necessarily “the Body of Christ. “
[h=2]THE PROPHESIED CHURCH[/h]We have quoted Psalm 22:22 and Hebrews 2:12. The Psalmist prophesied concerning “the ekklesia” (the congregation). In Hebrews 2:12 the prophesied “ekklesia” is “the Church.” Thus we see that we must some times give a general meaning to the word “ekklesia” (Church), and sometimes a very definite and specific meaning. God’s prophets foretold “a Church” but not one of them foretold “the Joint-Body” of Ephesians 3:6.
If you will read Isaiah 43:5 to 7, Jeremiah 31:10 and Jeremiah 31:31 to 36 and Jeremiah 32:37 and 38, and Ezekiel 36:24, and Amos 9:11 to 15, you will learn that God is to have a “called-out” people, “an ekklesia,” after this present dispensation has been brought to an end. We quote Ezekiel 36:24 and Jeremiah 32:37 and 38.

“I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.”
“Behold I will gather them out of all countries, whither I have driven them in mine auger, and in my fury, and in great wrath; and I will bring them again unto this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely; And they shall be My people, and I will be their God.”

There is yet to be a great church in the land of Canaan.
[h=2]THE UNPROPHESIED CHURCH[/h]But now again note Colossians 1:24 to 26. “This was the Church of the Mystery.” By comparing this with Ephesians 3:1 to 11, we learn that any other “ekklesia” (church), in the Scriptures, was a church different from “the Church of the Mystery.” The prophets of Israel knew about the “ekklesia of God”; but they knew nothing about “the Body of Christ.” All during the days of Israel’s commonwealth and captivity “the Body of Christ” was God’s own unrevealed secret, not made known to the sons of men in other ages.
At last the Lord Jesus disclosed to the Apostle Paul the new Divine movement, called “the dispensation of the mystery.” Ephesians 3:9. “And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God.” Here we see that God wants you and me to do the same thing.
Note Ephesians 1:9—“Having made known unto us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He hath purposed in Himself.” God has made it known. God wants it made known.

stonesoffire · Dec 16, 2017

So a question. Sheep versus Sons?

Susanna · Dec 16, 2017

BillG said:

Now we're talking.

dcontroversal · Dec 16, 2017

Seohce said:

Malachi 2:17 The Day of Judgment You have wearied the Lord with your words. “How have we wearied him?” you ask. By saying, “All who do evil are good in the eyes of the Lord, and he is pleased with them” or “Where is the God of justice?”
Malachi 3:13-18 “You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.

Romans 6:15-16 Slaves to Righteousness What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to OBEDIENCE, which leads to righteousness.

Romans 2:12-15 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is THOSE WHO OBEY THE LAW who will be declared righteous. (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are WRITTEN ON THEIR HEARTS, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.)

Nice misapplication of Malachi....7 assertions made against Israel....not us.....I am not under the law...the righteousness of Christ without the law has been imputed by faith.....you should trust Christ instead of the old weak inferior way wjich condemns you every day!

dcontroversal · Dec 16, 2017

stonesoffire said:

One and the same.....same as elect and saint.....one and the same

dcontroversal · Dec 16, 2017